PDA

View Full Version : Bent push rods



Rosstude
09-04-2005, 10:31 PM
Hello,
Its me again, the guy that posted "new wagon report" a week ago. Well, it looks good, but......has bent push rods, and corresponding stuck valves (intake & exhaust). I am guessing from being in storage a long time. The PO had it running, after rebuilding the carb, but it seemed to run OK. Although it had a LOT of lifter noise, now I know why. I'm pulling the heads tomorrow.
Looking for input as to what to look for. Rust on stems? Could have excess fuel from bad carb hydro locked and bent valves? Could a skipped/ stripped timing gear bend valves?
I have a spare good engine to glean parts from, I do not want to damage two pair however.

Ross.
57 Provincial
58 Transtar
66 Wagonaire

JDP
09-04-2005, 10:42 PM
You'll find the valves are rusted into the guides. You'll need to to use lots of penetrating oil and some careful tapping. You'll need to check the springs, guides valves and cam for damage. (I've found many of the springs would go weak from being compressed for years and the cam lobes can be wiped from stuck valves)

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk

Dick Steinkamp
09-04-2005, 10:55 PM
Valves probably bent due to valves stuck in the guides from sitting. It's common to not only have bent push rods, but also busted guides and bent valve stems from starting a long dormant engine without first making sure all valves have been freed up. Probably time to have a machine shop go through the heads.

-Dick-

Sonny
09-04-2005, 10:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by Rosstude

Hello,
Its me again, the guy that posted "new wagon report" a week ago. Well, it looks good, but......has bent push rods, and corresponding stuck valves (intake & exhaust). I am guessing from being in storage a long time. The PO had it running, after rebuilding the carb, but it seemed to run OK. Although it had a LOT of lifter noise, now I know why. I'm pulling the heads tomorrow.
Looking for input as to what to look for. Rust on stems? Could have excess fuel from bad carb hydro locked and bent valves? Could a skipped/ stripped timing gear bend valves?
I have a spare good engine to glean parts from, I do not want to damage two pair however.

Ross.
57 Provincial
58 Transtar
66 Wagonaire

It's probably just the valves stuck in the guides from being in storage for a long time Ross. I'd check to make sure that it's hitting TDC like it's supposed to be and pop the heads to clean/check the guides. Pull the lifters and check them, (bottoms should be very slightly convex), for chips, damage. Check the cam lobes for damage by turning the engine over and looking down into the empty lifter bores. Check the rocker arms, (especially the tips), for damage. The cam should be OK, although the very best way to do it is to pull the cam to physically check the lobes and cam gear too. However, you can check the valve train after you get it back together, (measure the lift on each lobe when it's assembled). It probably goes without saying that you can do a bunch of things like check/lap the valves, new valve stem seals, clean/check the lifter bores/oil passages, check the valve springs, put that 4 barrel intake and a new carb. on! ;)

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Rosstude
09-04-2005, 11:08 PM
Thanks all. I will be hitting it early tomorrow morning. For some odd reason I have extra heads, push rods, gaskets, and the day off. I should know more about 8am tomorrow when I get them off.
You guys are great[^]

Ross.
57 Provincial
58 Transtar
66 Wagonaire

Sonny
09-05-2005, 09:49 AM
quote:Originally posted by Rosstude

Thanks all. I will be hitting it early tomorrow morning. For some odd reason I have extra heads, push rods, gaskets, and the day off. I should know more about 8am tomorrow when I get them off.
You guys are great[^]

Ross.
57 Provincial
58 Transtar
66 Wagonaire

Ross, one thing that I should have said was, what ever you do, do NOT try to free the valves up by just pulling the rocker arms and hitting the tops of the valve/valve spring retainers with the heads on. If you peen over a valve tip, bend a valve stem, get the valve stuck open further, or even just pop the locks and ruin the seal by hitting it with a hammer, you've gained nothing but a bigger machine shop/parts bill. I've never had any luck trying to completely free stuck valves with the heads still on. I've found that, 9 times out of 10, there's also corrosion in and around the combustion chambers, valves and pockets.

Also, you would NOT believe what "grows" in a cylinder when it's been sitting with the valve open for a long time. Any foreign matter in the cylinders HAS to be cleaned up properly or you can expect problems. That, and looking at the cylinder walls, cleaning the tops of the pistons and getting something to completely soak in all the way around the piston to gently free the rings will be in your best interest.

If you've bend push rods you have to remove every valve and check the stems for straightness, (been there, didn't do it, done it all over again......).

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Roscomacaw
09-05-2005, 12:53 PM
Also make sure you put the lifters back in the same bore they came from should you elect to pull them to check cam lobes.;)

But Ross - do I understand that you've run this thing since you got it home and it sounded like it was running on all eight albeit with alot of lifter clatter? You said: "it seemed to run OK. Although it had a LOT of lifter noise"
If it's running on all eight, I'd do a compression check first. Then, if the readings were tolerable, I'd simply replace the bent pushrods, reset the clearance and see how it drives![8D]

Everyone here wanting to proceed with extreme caution. s'OK I guess, but a bit of common sense could save alot of trouble.
I've used my prodigious bulk and a 3/4"drive ratchet and socket to wrench a rusted V8 back to turnworthness after a 20+ year hibernation in a rotting barn. That damned 289 purred with a freshly rebuilt WCFB strapped on and never smoked one puff. And that's just one story like that that I could tell.
[:I]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Rosstude
09-05-2005, 11:07 PM
Thanks every-one,
As you said Sonny, I saw no reason to try to free them up with the heads in place, seeing as I had a good set on hand. It was ugly in valve land, intake ports all sticky and varnished up, some light rust on the stems. Cam, and lifters are good. In a way I am glad I opened it up, got a look at the cylinders, .030 over as stated, no ridge, no scoring, very light carbon, nice. I found 3 of the 4 single port exhaust gaskets in backwards. Many of the gaskets I replaced I would have replaced sooner or later anyway. Spent 10 hours on it today, got a little carried away cleaning the head gasket surface, and related bolts and threads, no place to skimp. The heads are back on. Friday I will install the intake, exhaust, and water manifolds, and carefully fire it up. Hopefully a parts shipment will come in by then, and I can knock out the motor mounts as well.
Later.
Ross.

Ross.
57 Provincial
58 Transtar
66 Wagonaire

Sonny
09-05-2005, 11:49 PM
quote:Originally posted by Rosstude

Thanks every-one,
As you said Sonny, I saw no reason to try to free them up with the heads in place, seeing as I had a good set on hand. It was ugly in valve land, intake ports all sticky and varnished up, some light rust on the stems. Cam, and lifters are good. In a way I am glad I opened it up, got a look at the cylinders, .030 over as stated, no ridge, no scoring, very light carbon, nice. I found 3 of the 4 single port exhaust gaskets in backwards. Many of the gaskets I replaced I would have replaced sooner or later anyway. Spent 10 hours on it today, got a little carried away cleaning the head gasket surface, and related bolts and threads, no place to skimp. The heads are back on. Friday I will install the intake, exhaust, and water manifolds, and carefully fire it up. Hopefully a parts shipment will come in by then, and I can knock out the motor mounts as well.
Later.
Ross.

Ross.
57 Provincial
58 Transtar
66 Wagonaire

AWESOME! Nice job Ross! Heck man, just 10 hours, with all the careful work, isn't bad at all. Nothin' wrong with getting carried away, you hit the nail right on the head, "no place to skimp". Sounds like you're all over it, well covered. Hope that parts shipment makes it there in time, I'm lookin' forward to hearing about how it fires and runs for ya!

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Roscomacaw
09-06-2005, 02:21 AM
Good deal Ross.:) Sounds like it's gonna do well when you're done. Were there actualy any valves stuck[?] How many bent pushrods?
Maybe you already know this but it's good to roll the rods on a good, flat surface to check them for straightness. A slightly bent one will reveal itself in a roll test where it might look OK to the eye.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Rosstude
09-06-2005, 10:03 AM
There were two valves stuck, that is I had to repeatedly tap them while on the bench for them to snap shut, and they stick every time you move them. There were two others that would stick about every 4th or 5th hit. Four push rods are very bent, "crooked'r than a dogs hind leg" they are, and one other that just wobbles. 5 total.
I checked the "new" push rods on a big piece of aluminum that I use as a flat plate. I saw no daylight under them when rolling, nice and straight. The pistons got a good soaking in Mistery Oil while I was cleaning. Steel shims replaced the thick comp gaskets that were in there. I rotated the engine by hand after assembly to be sure everything was kosher, and nothing was hanging up.
Really looking forward to driving this baby.



Ross.
57 Provincial
58 Transtar
66 Wagonaire