PDA

View Full Version : 6 Volt Eletric Fuel Pumps



1949commander
09-02-2005, 08:32 AM
I have an inquiry to anyone who has an electric fuel pump on their car with 6 volt electric system. My question is as follows: What type of pump do you have? And where did you buy it. I would also like to know how you feel your pump performs. I have a 1949 Commander and have given up on making the mechanical pump perform in hot weather, I have all shields in place and still get a vapor lock in the (fuel pump) not just the carburetor any time its about 80 degrees. I am trying to get this car 100% for Omaha next year. This fuel pump problem is the only thing I have yet to beat. I have a Walbro bellows type on there now but it seems too delicate. I am looking for a solid state 6 volt if one exists.

Thanks :D

Brian R.

Restore it, don't replace it.Keep the Studebaker reproduction industry going

gecoe
09-02-2005, 08:46 AM
I solved the same problems along with the oil puking issue with a CarQuest E8011 diaphram pump on my 50 Champion.

Gerry

Mike Van Veghten
09-02-2005, 09:20 AM
As I've mentioned before...

Mounted to the back of my 6 volt, pos. ground, 6 cylinder, Conestoga is a Carter P4594 (12 volt) fuel pump. Even on 6 volts, I needed to install regulator to lower the pressure. I also just swapped the power wires to make it run correctly on the positive ground.

All is well...works fine. Will a 12 volt item work on 6 volts of power, sure, just slower.

Why you ask a 12 volt? The system will eventually be a 12 volt, negitive ground, 299 V-8. But I wanted to drive it untill all the swapping is completed.

60Lark
09-02-2005, 10:10 AM
What pressure is the 12 volt pump maintaining on the 6 volt system? And what pressure should it be maintaining?

Studebaker Fever
60 Lark
51 Champion
Phil

Commander51
09-02-2005, 10:46 AM
I've got a 6 volt pump on my '51 Commander, and have installed a pressure regulator to deliver 4-5 psi. Pump is near the tank, regulator just upstream of the original pump in the engine compartment. Regulators are cheap ($10) and available at NAPA.

1949commander
09-02-2005, 11:36 AM
Commander51

What type of pump do you have? And where did you get it?

Thanks

Brian R

Restore it, don't replace it.Keep the Studebaker reproduction industry going

Mike Van Veghten
09-02-2005, 11:55 AM
60Lark,

When I hooked it up and the regulater adjusted to 6.5 lbs from a previous car, the pump was still putting out a little over 5lbs. at 6 volts!

For the flat head six, I adjusted it to 3.25lbs. at a no load idle
No problems on the street or freeway.

Roscomacaw
09-02-2005, 12:31 PM
'49,

Have you TRIED adding a gallon of diesel when you fill up[?] This has solved a-many a vapor-lock frustration.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

60Lark
09-02-2005, 12:46 PM
Mike,
Thanks for the info, I have an electric fuel pump on my 60 Lark, that went caput last week end, I do not remember what it was rated for and I can see no numbers to tell me the rated psi. It did not have a pressure regulator installed with it. I ordered a Carter electric fuel pump from Summit that is rated for 7 PSI and I was not sure if I needed a pressure regulator or not, but just in case I also ordered a regulator that is rated for 3.5 to 8 psi. and figured I would set it at 5 psi to start with and go from there. I also am going to install an electric fuel pump on my 51 champion, just because it is much easier to start especially on cold starts.

Studebaker Fever
60 Lark
51 Champion
Phil

Tom B
09-02-2005, 07:48 PM
Sometime in the past 2 years, The Co-Operators in TW reported on 6V fuel pumps and recommended one (I can't remember it's name or number.) I went to NAPA and ordered one, they took the number and came up with what I got. It is a rotary vane pump, with soft rubber vanes and no valves. The regular pump will pull through it, and it will overcome the evil vapor lock. It's wired so either polarity can be ground, wired through the ignition and the Fog Light switch on my '53 Commander (no fog lights). I have tried the gallon of Diesel fuel, it still vapor locks at 75 deg f., and at a flip of the switch, the electric pump overcomes the vapor lock. I run without it until problems occur, then turn it on.

Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'60 Lark VI

Roscomacaw
09-02-2005, 08:00 PM
Tom, ya know what's odd (besides me[:p])[?] I live where summer temps top 100 for days at a time. In fact, this year set records for continuous days with 100+ temps[xx(]. And yet I've never had to use the diesel fuel trick to alleviate vapor lock!
This is with my Lark ragtop and Transtar truck - both of which are V8s with mechanical fuel pumps.[:I] Why is this?
And here in the valley, we have to deal with fuel blended to reduce smog since we've got it worse than Los Angeles - if you can belive that!

Tom, I'm not saying you're not experiencing vapor-lock. I'm just incredulous that I can drive my two stock Studes on blazingly hot afternoons and never have a stumble. How could this be?[?][?]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

gecoe
09-02-2005, 10:15 PM
Bob, I'm sure the vapor lock problem has a lot more to do with under the hood temps than ambient temps. An engine running on the hot side coupled with a design that disperses engine heat poorly was my problem. I would have kept fighting the problem in Clara but after her fourth mechanical fuel pump started pumping oil out the vent holes I gave up. As you know, I got relief from the diesel addition but now, my pressurized gas doesn't boil so readily and I don't need it.

The electric fuel pump I choose was a 2 wire type that allowed using it with pos ground. Also, it is rated at less than 6 lbs. pressure so I didn't have to install a regulator with it. I just wired it through an oil pressure switch and use it full time. I even wired in a primer button for awakening her after long naps.

It sure was nice this past weekend to be driving with a number of other Studes and not be the one that was stricken with the dreaded vapor lock problem:).

Gerry

Roscomacaw
09-03-2005, 12:48 PM
Cool Deal, Gerry! Glad to hear Clara's been showing herself a bit. With gas over 3 bucks a gallon here, I'm thinking about dragging that Champ 6 up from out back and breathing new life into it![:p]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Tom B
09-03-2005, 02:47 PM
StudeBob, Where are the fuel pumps on your Lark and Pick'em up? The pump on my Lark VI is down at the bottom of the block, and has never missed a beat. The one on my '53 coupe is right behind the fan, at the top of the block. Vapor lock stranded me once, with my better half along for two hours in a strange (to me) town, and on the same trip, until I covered the pump with ice in South Bend. True, temps were in the 90s, but lately it's been every time I take it out, it wants to stumble. I just turn on the pump and as Mr. Gleason used to say, "Awayyyyy we go."

Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'60 Lark VI

curt
09-03-2005, 06:48 PM
I had a 6 volt low pressure Carter ( Federal Mogal) pump on my 6 volt pos ground Kaiser. It works, just get the Auto parts store to look the # up undre Federal Mogal--Carter. It is a non diaphram pump; alcohol, etc will not age the pump's working mechanism. I ran it through the mechanical pump. Flip the electric pump on after a long non-running period and the car would start up on one try. If vapor lock hit ,flip pump on and vapor lock over.

curt
09-03-2005, 07:00 PM
ELECTRIC PUMPS should be mounted close to the gas tank. Electric pumps push, not pull.

Commander51
09-04-2005, 07:36 PM
quote:Originally posted by 1949commander

Commander51

What type of pump do you have? And where did you get it?

Thanks

Brian R

Restore it, don't replace it.Keep the Studebaker reproduction industry going
Sorry Brian, pump came with the car--but some good leads from other posts...

1949commander
09-07-2005, 11:27 AM
Update:

I bought one of the CarQuest E8011 pumps its just like the 12 volt one my brother has on his 78 Dodge D300, It works great and it says it is Gasohol approved. As long as I have the electric on it runs fine in the hot weather.

The vapor lock problem is really bad on the cars with the Commander 6, I believe the reason why this is so is due to the fact that there is not much room between the frame rails and the engine. I also notice that there is airflow coming out of the driverís side of the hood in the gap between the hood and the fender. If you observe the air flow from the fan the air all seems to blow to the drivers side of the engine. I know of another club member that has a 48 Commander and he warned me about the vapor lock problem on his car. It boils all the way down into the fuel pump. Then the fuel pump gets an air lock and the only way to clear it is to force the gas to the pump from the tank. Also when you check the component temperature the fuel pump is so hot you can't touch it. Even with the air diverter tube they have to try to cool the pump!!

Where as my dad's 60 Lark runs just fine and the fuel pump is much cooler to the touch.


Thanks Gerry!!!

Brian R. :D

Restore it, don't replace it.Keep the Studebaker reproduction industry going

whizzo
09-07-2005, 04:26 PM
My 1949 Commander 6 has two heat deflector shields on the passenger side, one above the fuel pump and one below the carburetor. Also has a 4" hole low down in radiator suppport with a hose bringing in cool air from in front of radiator to near fuel pump. Looks like the factory made lots of attempts to beat the heat.

John Larkin
Speaking of Studebakers
Mid-Missouri SDC

gecoe
09-07-2005, 05:39 PM
You're welcome, I'm glad it worked for you. However, unless I missed something you're only half done with the installation. If for no other reason than safety I suggest you wire the pump through an oil pressure switch. That way, in the event of an accident you won't have an electric pump feeding fuel to a fire. Even if something like that never happens you may find that the car can tend to flood during a hot start. Without oil pressure there will be no additional fuel during those starts. Also, if your car sleeps for extended periods you may want to wire in a primer button for quicker starts.

Gerry

1949commander
09-08-2005, 08:50 AM
Gerry,

I plan on making the wiring changes this weekend. What oil pressure switch did you use?? Stock later Stude Switch or something else? I also plan on going one step further by wiring it to work when the starter is engaged to bypass the oil switch when starting. This will make it like a modern fuel injection car. I am doing all this through a relay so the pump gets power from the battery through the relay and the oil switch and iginition operate the relay. This is the only problem area I have had with the car so I want to fix it the best most reliable way I can.

Brian R

Restore it, don't replace it.Keep the Studebaker reproduction industry going

gecoe
09-08-2005, 10:17 PM
OK everybody, please don't throw rocks![:0]

I used GM part number 3986857.[V] These were used on 71 through 77 Vegas and Astras. They are also listed as part number 25504803 for 75 through 80 Buick Starfires. They are a 3-wire switch with two of the wires making contact when sufficient oil pressure is reached and the third providing power to an oil pressure warning light during low pressure.

I think you will find plenty of fuel to start you engine under most circumstances without the pump being turned on. Very possibly you could find, as I did, that the engine tends to flood on hot starts if the pump is running. You might want to hold off on the bypass circuit for starting. If you should have a need for such a circuit it could be accomplished by a momentary primer circuit that would give you more control over fuel during starts.

Gerry