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Eman
08-22-2005, 03:39 PM
In looking around for a Studebaker, I've noticed a few ads, and talked to a few folks who mention "surface rust." They usually talk about it like it's no big deal. And I know it's not like the cancerous rust, that begins eating a hole through the body. But how bad is surface rust, really? Is it not a big deal, because it can easily be removed when you get prepped for a good paint job? Should it be treated immediately?

- Eman


www.bulletshots.net

DEEPNHOCK
08-22-2005, 03:55 PM
Any older vehicle uses rust (and the lack of it) as the gold standard...
Surface rust is just the beginning.
Sort of like pregnancy.
You don't notice it at first.......

Rust will devalue a vehicle proportionally to where it is rusted...
Rust hog troughs on an Avanti, GT Hawk of hardtop will hurt the value (and mess up the structure).
Rusty seams on fenders on Hawks can be a $2000 fix (nos replacements).
Saying a car is 'rust free' will add value immediately, but those two words will bring intense scrutiny with them, and deservedly so.

Treating a small amount of surface rust early is a simple, and effective thing to do. Studebakers were built in a time where corrosion protection was minimal at best, using a tar based application. Cost factors prevented any electroplating or dipping processes.
Very good question.
Jeff[8D]

[quote]Originally posted by Eman

In looking around for a Studebaker, I've noticed a few ads, and talked to a few folks who mention "surface rust." They usually talk about it like it's no big deal. And I know it's not like the cancerous rust, that begins eating a hole through the body. But how bad is surface rust, really? Is it not a big deal, because it can easily be removed when you get prepped for a good paint job? Should it be treated immediately? [quote]




DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/photo/42559113/426827941Lsvfrz
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

Roscomacaw
08-22-2005, 04:46 PM
My idea of surface rust is that that can be dealt with using sandpaper and primer, basically.:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

52hawk
08-22-2005, 07:22 PM
And then there's the 'surface rust'which becomes a large hole when you jab a screwdriver at it. one word: BEWARE.[read the post by KDANCY,'purple Hawk rust repair'.... We'd all love to buy a few Studes with just 'surface rust'

Hawks,Larks,and other critters!

N8N
08-22-2005, 07:25 PM
Given my druthers, though, I'd rather have a vehicle with surface rust that's clearly due to paint being oxidized off by the sun (i.e. in the middle of a panel, obviously not coming through from the backside) than any other kind of rust. I'd rather not have any rust at all, obviously, but still...

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

rockne10
08-22-2005, 07:47 PM
There are as many degrees of surface rust as there are colors of paint, rangeing from the crazed paint that results in a spider web of oxidation on otherwise clean smooth steel to the acned sheetmetal that is only 1/4 its original thickness. With a good poke the surface rust is gone and so is the steel.
Each degree of surface rust can be dealt with in a manner suiting it's condition.
The caveat emptor is to know what the seller's definition of surface rust is.
In any event, if you don't deal with it properly, you will deal with it again.

52hawk
08-22-2005, 08:14 PM
I agree with Rockne,and another thing to consider-where did the car spend its life? Arizona? Southern California? Or the rust belt?? After 30+ years of doing body work in Illinois,i can tell you Illinois cars don't just get surface rust.time and time again I've had people ask for a price to fix 'a little surface rust'-most people just don't realize whats actually under that paint. They will point to a spot,and see,'it's not through the metal'..Well,just push hard with your finger and it will be through the metal .
Surface rust on a Arizona car? That I'll believe,but not in Illinois,or any other rust belt state..

Hawks,Larks,and other critters!

Kdancy
08-23-2005, 05:44 AM
quote:Originally posted by 52hawk

I agree with Rockne,and another thing to consider-where did the car spend its life? Arizona? Southern California? Or the rust belt?? After 30+ years of doing body work in Illinois,i can tell you Illinois cars don't just get surface rust.time and time again I've had people ask for a price to fix 'a little surface rust'-most people just don't realize whats actually under that paint. They will point to a spot,and see,'it's not through the metal'..Well,just push hard with your finger and it will be through the metal .
Surface rust on a Arizona car? That I'll believe,but not in Illinois,or any other rust belt state..


Bingo!!!
If the "surface" rust is in a typical Stude rust area, it would be suspect as coming thru from the back side of the panel. You ain't gonna fix that properly by treating the top side. The Cursed Purple Hawk is a good example-- the body shop just prepped and painted the top side with out fixing the real problem underneath, so I have been re-doing the whole car, cutting out the rust, treating the back side and putting in new metal. Oh' beware the "sandwich" patch, where a metal patch is just welded over the rust without cutting it out. The Cursed Purple Hawk was full of those!
Of course, none of this was ever brought up by the owner when we were looking into purchasing the "nice" car shown in the pictures! Lifting the carpet didn't show the patchwork, it wasn't until we put the car on a lift and could see underneath it that we could see the very poor rust work or lack thereof. Since then I have taken the drivers door down, cut out the bottom door panel and put new metal into that area, rust was starting to bubble the fairly new paint. The other door will have to be done as well. I finished the metal work in the trunk area yesterday and epoxy primed, now will seam seal and spray bedliner coating in.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
61 Cursed Purple Hawk
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT

Eman
08-23-2005, 07:35 AM
Thanks for the responses everyone. Those pictures on your site of the Purple Hawk rust work give me the shakes![xx(]




www.bulletshots.net

52hawk
08-23-2005, 07:57 AM
Eman,nobody here wants to discourage a potential Studebaker owner!!
Please buy one! or two! Buying any old car[not just a Stude]can turn into a nightmare though,it takes some knowledge and some research[as you are wise to do by starting on this forum].
A good thorough inspection,[on a lift if possible]by a body man and a mechanic would be ideal-and of course,a good test drive!!! Nobody wants to see your first old car sour you on the hobby!
I think when you used the term 'surface rust'it hit a nerve in people like kdancy and myself!

Hawks,Larks,and other critters!

Kdancy
08-23-2005, 10:28 AM
Eman, I have worked on several different Studes for others and this one was the first one I worked on that had so many surprises. Just be careful that you have the car inspected by some one that knows these models (don't totally rely on the seller's description or lack thereof). That goes for any old car not just Studebakers. Body work is the killer, so put most of your emphasis on how good the body is. Most will need some work, just buy one where the work is minimized and you will be okay.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
61 Cursed Purple Hawk
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT

Swifster
08-23-2005, 10:29 AM
This was a large reason why I bought my Daytona out of the Lake Tahoe area. Having the car torn down enough now, I can see the car is solid. But with the sun burning the paint away in the southwest, the humidity here doesn't do it any favors.

As I'm pulling the sheet metal, I'm having the body panels chemically stripped and E-coated. This should keep the steel from reverting back to iron oxide.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)