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View Full Version : Calling Tom (aka, sbca 96)



wagone
03-09-2007, 02:01 PM
Tom,

Can we further discuss the use of this Honda alternator to replace the wretched Prestolite unit (ok, its 40 years old so maybe wretched isn't quite fair)? Do you know whether the Honda 35 amp alternator you mention as being a swap for Larks and Hawks can be used on the Avanti? I know the Avanti Prestolite alternator is a 40 amp unit, but how much difference does that make? On a non-air conditioned car I wouldn't think much(?). What about the regulator on the Avanti (I have a "fancy" electronic regulator from Dave Thibeault and don't want to change it), it is only going to sense a maximum of 35 amps in lieu of 40 but I can't see that as an issue--but I may be oversimplifying things. Will the Honda alternator bolt up to the Avanti style bracket? If I carry a spare Honda unit can it be swapped out on the road if the Prestolite unit gives up the ghost? The wiring as I understand you is quite similar to the Stude set up (?). Somone asked if the Honda style pulley is still used or if the Prestolite pulley needs to be swapped--that alone could make it difficult to do an alternator swap on the side of the road. My Presolite unit ripped out all the spokes between the front bearing and the case a few years ago and at that time I had it welded. Also one of the brush holders was about shot and I made up a repair using a piece of plexiglass to support the brush holder in the case, but I'm not too trusting of either of these repairs. Thanks for the help.

wagone and the old R2 Avanti

StudeRich
03-09-2007, 02:25 PM
Wagone: I am not Tom, but he is going to need to know a few things to help you when he gets home anyway. Do you know if Dave T's "replacement" is the standard Lark/Hawk (Chrysler) flat little square box Electronic one for the 35 AMP system that is quite common and an exact replacement for the Lark/Hawk/Chrysler mechanical one? Or is a a special BIG one with (3) terminals, like the stock Avanti one? Did it require rewiring at all?

You know that on Jet Thrust cars (Super Lark/Hawk) Studebaker used the Avanti (Dual adjusting arm ear) HD 40 AMP Alternator...BUT they used the same little Chrysler 35 amp VOLTAGE REG. that all Alternator equipped Studes. use! And it works fine not using all of the capacity.

Hope this helps, Rich.

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

bige
03-09-2007, 07:48 PM
An alternator rebuilder set me up with an Autolite that I believe was used on a Toyota. I can give you a picture with a part number tomorrow if you want. Except for rethreading the Metric bolt hole ad making the hole for the long bolt a litte larger it's a bolt on and looks very much like the original. This is what it looks like installed. Too dark and cold to get part# tonight.

ErnieR

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/avnatiglamour007.jpghttp://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/Picture020Medium.jpg

sbca96
03-09-2007, 09:33 PM
The Honda altenator is a direct replacement for the Hawk and Lark. As
I mentioned in the other thread, I used it "as is", which means I did
not replace the pulley. Its similar size to the factory one as you
can see in the pictures I posted.

On to the Avanti. I have a GM internal regulator Alt on my Avanti. I
have an R1 though. I've heard that the R2 mounts the Alt differently
which means the Alt I used may or may not work. I have read that the
Toyota one can be used on Avantis. The Bob Johnstone site doesnt seem
to list what car this is being swapped onto.

http://www.studebaker-info.org/Toyalt/toyalt.html

Here is the text from my GM alt swap which is also posted by Bob, this
was a tech article I wrote for Avanti Magazine a few years ago :

http://www.studebaker-info.org/text3/alternatorswap.txt

"I have the GM altenator mounted and wired up on the Avanti. The project was
really VERY easy. So any of you reading this post and having a simular problem
might be interested. To mount the Altenator all that was needed to be done was
move the small three hole mounted bracket forward one bolt hole .. and drill
two new holes into the main bracket. In other words the front hole in the main
bracket became the rear hole for the small bracket. Then mark your holes in
pencil use the top existing holes to line up the new hole and drill it. Then I
installed a bolt and then drilled the lower hole. The case of the altenator is
very close to the lower water manifold bolt. If your belt is long enough, it
will clear it, mine did (barely). If not, then a 1/2 thick piece of aluminum
with those same 3 holes drilled in it, placed between the small bracket and the
main bracket will space the altenator out far enough to clear. Then you need a
3 inch long 3/8 bolt a couple washers and a nut. You place the wide end of the
GM altenator in the top bracket, you just moved forward, and then just use the
existing adjusting arm again for the lower mount (like it was originally) The
only difference is now you put the bolt in from the back side of the adjusting
arm instead of the front side .. since the altenator got moved forward. GM
altenators are designed so that the rear of the altenator can be rotated to
place the wires at 12, 3, 6 or 9 oclock. Just remove the 4 screws take off the
rear cover .. use a drill bit to hold the brushes away from the contact surface
and put the cover back on so the wires face the correct way, if needed. I was
surprised how easy this was to do, sounds like a lot, but its not really. It
looks like it was supposed to have a GM altenator."

I hope this helps. Sounds like Bige has the info you need for the R2.

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

wagone
03-09-2007, 09:36 PM
Note to Rich/Tom,

Dave T.'s voltage regulator which I am using required no wiring mods whatsoever and it attached in the original Stude holes, unlike another style which required the drilling of holes in the fender well on the sides of the regulator. The regulator is one that Dave T. got from, I believe, an AMC application and he ripped the mechanical guts out of and added an electronic regulator in the bare case. The Dave T. unit I'm using has holes in the ends of the regulator and, as noted above, attaches or screws on to the fender well just like the original. Thanks for your input Rich.

wagone and the old R2 Avanti

sbca96
03-09-2007, 09:49 PM
I am sorry .. were you looking for an alt or a regulator? I think I
have the old alt from my Avanti. I replaced it because I was quoted
over 80 dollars for a voltage regulator and felt that was rediculous.
The GM alt I had in the garage and it basically bolted up. It has a
higher output and eliminated the regulator on the inner fender. Is
the Alt the same between the R1 & R2 even though its mounted different?

Tom


quote:Originally posted by wagone

Dave T.'s voltage regulator which I am using required no wiring mods whatsoever ...

wagone
03-09-2007, 09:52 PM
Note to ErnieR,

That is a nice looking underhood area on your Avanti. Yes, get me numbers tomorrow and anything else you might think relevant. I'll evaluate the info I get from you and Tom and whoever else and decide in my own "methodical" (ha,ha) fashion whuch route to go. Thanks

wagone and the old R2 Avanti

wagone
03-09-2007, 09:59 PM
Tom,

No, I'm looking for an alternator to replace the Prestolite (or use as a spare). The only reason for mentioning in detail what the regulator consisted of is because Rich indicated in his post earlier that you'd need to know this in order to advise what mods I'd need to do to use the Honda unit. Sorry for the confusion and thanks again.

wagone and the old R2 Avanti

sbca96
03-09-2007, 10:35 PM
This weekend I will look for it, I know where the Honda one from my
Hawk is, but I dont recall where I put the Avanti Prestolite. The
regulator went to regulator heaven.:D

Tom


quote:Originally posted by wagone

No, I'm looking for an alternator to replace the Prestolite (or use as a spare).

bige
03-10-2007, 09:01 AM
The numbers are ALC 5001 45 amps. Autolite. It works fine with my Dave T regulator and as you're contemplating, I had the same rebuilder do my Prestolite over and carry it as a spare. The Autolite has been on there for close to 10 years now. Testament to the rebuilder or the alternator? I'm not sure.

Thanks for the compliment on the engine area, pictures make it look better than it is but I drive the car frequently and I don't fuss over dirt too much.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/alternator004Medium.jpg
ErnieR

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/avnatiglamour007.jpg

JDP
03-10-2007, 11:54 PM
Autolite and Prestolite are the same company and are the same, # 5001 is the same as the stock Avanti unit.

64 Commander 2 dr.
64 Daytona HT
63 Cruiser
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black)
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

Roscomacaw
03-11-2007, 05:20 AM
bige writes: " I drive the car frequently and I don't fuss over dirt too much."

MY MAN!!!!:D


Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

bige
03-11-2007, 02:51 PM
I'm not so sure they are the same company but it is from a Toyota. In fact 1974 Corona I believe. There are still listings on some of the Parts web sites for the application and the Autolite Alternator as the correct replacement.

Autolite was always Ford's captive parts company as in AC Delco for GM. There may have been some cross pollination.

I still have the original Prestolite and they are close but definitely not identical.

ErnieR

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/avnatiglamour007.jpghttp://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/avnatiglamour008Medium.jpg

sbca96
03-11-2007, 03:38 PM
Thats what I thought, so its not off a Toyota, or a new model at all?

EDIT: Oh ok ... so you confirmed its Toyota heritage.

Tom


quote:Originally posted by JDP

Autolite and Prestolite are the same company and are the same, # 5001 is the same as the stock Avanti unit.

bige
03-11-2007, 04:26 PM
Looking a little further...the Autolite designation might be from a rebuilder. Meaning it could be a Nippondenso unit that Autolite rebuilt and sold as one of their remanufactured parts. There may also be a numbering system that rebuilders use thst would spply to any remanufactured alternator that might work on a particular application. Hence the ALC 5001 appearing on a Prestolite. We can be reasonably sure that the alternators on our cars have had a rebuild, or an exchange happen in their lifetimes. The Alternator that came off my car has ALE 5003 on the id tag. I doubt it's the alternator that the car was delivered with back in 64. When the first one went bad it was exchanged for one that would work, not necessarily an identical one.

Back in the early 70's I spent a few years managing auto parts stores and then in the gas station business. I saw lots of numbers that were the same across manufacturers. Just look at brake pads and shoes. I can still remember some of the part numbers for GM applications because they appeared in some form on every brand we would sell.

I paid extra back in '96 to keep the "core" and asked to have that rebuilt in order to have 2 alternators. I watched as they drilled the mounting hole and retapped the hold down. They took the pulley from mine and clocked the "Autolite" to match the orientation of the one that came off my car.

Becuase people look at us crosseyed when we ask for Avanti parts the Toyota application might come in handy. At least it will get someone to open the book.



http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r241/AvantiR2/avnatiglamour007.jpg