Announcement

**52hawk** · 08-18-2005, 05:34 AM

Hawks and Larks were built on the same line in SB-but thats another one of studes in-efficiencies,imagine the confusion and work stoppage,to build a Hawk in the middle of 4 dozen Larks.

Hawks,Larks,and other critters!

**Roscomacaw** · 08-18-2005, 10:07 AM

I've often wondered about this. While working on my wagon, I struggled a bit to get the upper tailgate off last week. It occurred to me that some folks on the line had to be more proficient at doing things that were peculiar to station wagons as the mix of body styles came down the production line. Then toss in a convertible or two and the occassional Hawk. Musta been quite a dance!

Speakin' of this 58 Provincial. According to production records, out of the approximately 2400 Provincials built in 1958, only ONE was a President (58H) series Provincial. This model of car is sort of an anomaly in that for the prior two years ('56 & '57) there were 3 distinct nameplates for the Champion series wagons, the Commander series wagons and the President series wagons. Then for '58 there was only the Provincial and the Scotsman (the Scotsman - a carryover from '57 and a 2-door at that) This, of course, without regard to the "Packardbaker" wagons of '57 & '58.
The two prior years, there was distinctive trim differences between the three different lines of wagons. The 57-8 Scotsmans, of course, with practically no brightwork at all whereas the '56 Champion version - the Pelham - had modest trim. The Commander versions had a bit more and the President wagons were the glitziest of all. But for the 58 Provincials, the same trim was afforded the Commander and Presidnet wagons when the other sedans still got different dress-ups.
Now getting back to that ONE 58 President wagon.... It wasn't just a special order deal as we know that Studebaker would've been willing to accomodate. I say this because the parts books reveal that a President Provincial was a regular item.
But what you got if you ordered one (a President Provincial) was the extra 30 cubic inches of the 289 (over the Commander's standard 259), finned brake drums instead of smooth (like the 259 version weighed less!!!), a 3" diameter red 'n gold badge on the front grill that say's "President" on it, a delicate chromed script on the golvebox door that says "President" and the President series, "cross-hair" taillight lenses at the rear. That's it! That's all there was to differentiate the President Provincial from the Commander Provincial.
You'd THINK that at least TWO people would have opted for the extra power of a 289 (and maybe a 4-bbl) out of 2400 or so buyers.

BTW - I got the production order for this car. It's final assembly date was October 8th of 1957. Kinda early on in the '58 model run.
It's destination checks with the story I got about it in that it was sold new from a dealer in Sacramento, California.
It's colors were Cliff Gray metallic over Bluff Gray with a red & black vinyl interior.
It sported Flight-o-matic, dual exhausts, tinted glass, oil bath air cleaner, factory undercoating and white sidewall tires. There's also 6 AC numbers listed which I haven't looked up yet.
Anyway, she's less than two months from her birthday. Maybe I'll bake a cake then. Do ya think I could tint some frosting to where I could two-tone gray the thing???[}

]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

**Studedude1961** · 08-18-2005, 04:46 PM

Great post Mr. Biggs. While doing research for an article on Studebaker wagons for our local newsletter last year I researched these same records and if one didn't know better one would think Studebaker was an extremely small, specialty car company like Muntz or Excalibur. Production totals, particularly from 1958 when Studebaker still considered itself a "full-line" manufacturer of cars and trucks, take your breath away. Stude wagons, particularly the 1956-1958 models, should be real comers in value as so few of any one model were produced, and most were used hard and went to the automotive boneyard pretty early. I've only seen 2 Provincial wagons restored and they were something.

Studedude1961
--1963 Cruiser

**Roscomacaw** · 08-19-2005, 07:00 AM

'58 was a tough year for the whole auto industry. And failing Studebaker was hanging on by one thin thread. Surely, the only reason they didn't close the doors was the promise of the Lark that was coming.
In '76 I owned one of the 159 '58 Packard wagons (body #21, eng # 58) and yet over the years, I've seen more of the PAckard wagons than I have the 58 Provincials! Fact is, I can recall personal knowledge of 5 different Provincials thru all my years of Studebakerin'[:0].

When I owned that 58 Packard wagon, I took time to think about the following at one time - anyone can correct me if I'm wrong. The way I see it, '58 was THE one postwar year that a person shopping for a station wagon had the widest array of wagon models to choose from. Ford, Mercury, Edsel, Chevy, Buick, Olds, Chrysler, Dodge, Plymouth, Desoto, Rambler (actualy, Rambler offered two different wagons - a small one and a full-sized one), Jeep, Studebaker & Packard. Am I missing any? Seems like I've left out one or two. Of course, this is American-brand oriented. I don't know what, if any, little import wagons may have been sneaking ashore at that time.[xx(]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

**studegary** · 08-19-2005, 10:12 AM

Studedude1961 - Production quantity and current collector value rarely inversely correlate. A good example is 1957 Chevys. They made a zillion and the current price is high. They made few 1961 DeSotos, but their value is relatively low. Many car models that were low production were made in small numbers because they didn't sell. In many cases, people didn't want them then and still don't want them now. I have owned many car models with low production quantities, like; 2, 2XX, 273, 8XX, etc.

**studegary** · 08-19-2005, 10:14 AM

Bob/MrBiggs - Pontiac

**Studedude1961** · 08-19-2005, 12:09 PM

Studegary one of the nice things in the future about low-production (and low interest when new) Studebaker Station Wagons is the general uptick in interest in all station wagons. I think people are sick of the generic mini-van and people now reaching middle age with a few dollars in their pockets are taking another look at station wagons, and liking what they see. Judging just from eBay, some wagons that people wouldn't be caught dead in just a short few years ago are starting to command prices nearly equal to the exhalted hardtop. On the other hand, they could have made only 15 Yugos and only one person today would want one, regardless of low production figures!

Studedude1961
--1963 Cruiser

**Roscomacaw** · 08-19-2005, 02:38 PM

I was thinking about "rare" cars today as I drove thru town. I happened to see one of those AMC/Renault Eagle Premiers rotting away in a driveway. Thick coat of dust - half-flat tires - long expired tags.... Now, there's a car that has even less notoriety than a Yugo! I'll bet 20 or 30 years from now - you won't be able to find one in ANY condition.[}

] Not that anyone would want to[xx(]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

**Transtar56** · 08-20-2005, 05:04 AM

I used to own a 63 Wagonaire for a short time and we sure had fun with it.In the short time before it went to the paint shop I drove it with no grille and all trim removed,just in primer,and Diane and I and my son and his cousin drove it around Dorchesster Cape,all gravel roads with the roof open,it sure was fun.I can certainly see the appeal of wagons for those who like to camp and explore.
But I like the older Stude wagons like Mr. Biggs has much better.I love the tailfins on a 57-58 Stude or Packard wagon.If Im ever fortunate enough to get one of these it will be a keeper.

**2R5** · 08-20-2005, 05:23 AM

Speaching of 58 wagons , there is one here in the Niagara area that has never been restored and it still looks pretty good. If anyone wants a pic of it i think I may have one.

**Roscomacaw** · 08-20-2005, 07:30 AM

If you'll mail me that picture, I'll put it up so we all can see it. I know I'd like to have a look.

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

**2R5** · 08-20-2005, 01:26 PM

Give me your email address and I'll send it to you [8D]

**vaporloc** · 08-20-2005, 04:06 PM

while reading these post I saw where Studegary mentioned the prices of 57 chevy's. I saw one on the internet. It was a 57 Belair convertible. Asking price was $275K. Now that just aint right.

jerry moore

**raprice** · 08-20-2005, 05:03 PM

Jerry,
They can ask for 275G, but if some idiot pays that amount, it's his problem. I can't understand this abnormal fascination with the mid 50s Chevys. They're nice cars, but the dollar amounts that they get are ridiculous.
Okay, I'll get off my soap box now.
Rog

'59 Lark Regal Hardtop

Announcement

Hamilton built Hawks

Hamilton built Hawks

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment