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gotti210
08-13-2005, 12:29 AM
well you guys im still having temp problems (1950 champ)

ive flushed the readiator but it didnt seem to do much for it

ive noticed that the rows are still pretty yucked up and several radiator shops have told me that they cant and wont rod it cause they always come back leaking

one shop told me a whole diff story that they can flush it unsoder the tanks and rod the rows but theres a high possibility that once they do all this and get it back together it will leak bad enough that they will have to recore it (repetable shop but has always giving me the impression as swindlers) they are gonna charge me $70.00 to clean it and pressure check it & from there its up in the air if it needs a recore

but my biggest question is if i go this route will it fix my cooling problem. Right now in 100 degree south texas weather im running off the scale on an aftermaket water temp guage (230 is all ive pushed- in a matter of about 10 to 15 miles of nonstop 50 mph traffic- but this was highway travel, also it didnt throw up . in off highway - stop n go traffic i seem to stay around 190)

ive heard studes are notorious of this with engine swaps (WHY) but im still running the stock six

i have yet to check if it has a good thermostat or evan one at all
i know that if there is not one then there is a good chance that the coolant isnt slowing down enough to cool in its time spent in the radiator
if i replace the thermostat what is the torque for the housing and where can i get a thermostat and gasket at? the f.l.a.p.s or is this a special order thing and what size should i put in it (i would think the lowest degree available correct or incorrect)

i dont want to spend to much money unless its a must and i dont wanna get to deep into the mechanical end unless like i said its a must... i mean other than highway travel the car is great but if i wanna go anywhere and enjoy the damm thing it has to get up to highway speed (right)

i need some of those awesome stude guru answers (biggs & sonny)

N8N
08-13-2005, 06:57 AM
I suspect that the radiator is indeed your problem. Either find a better used one or just have yours redone.

The thermostat should be the same as a small block Chevy, probably a 160 degree unit but I wouldn't swear to it (I know early V8s were 160 degrees and later went to 170 degrees) but there is a spacer that goes in there that you won't find at your FLAPS if yours is in bad shape.

good luck,

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

52hawk
08-13-2005, 09:48 AM
I'd recore that radiator and be done with it.There's not much chance of safely rodding out any radiator more than 20 yrs old.Spend the money to rod it,it leaks, then you'll buy a recore--I think that shop just wants your money.Do business with one of the shops that told you they can't rod it,I think they're being more honest with you. Also realize,the temp of the thermostat is not the temp the engine will run at,it is just the temp the therm OPENS at.

Hawks,Larks,and other critters!

hank63
08-13-2005, 10:25 AM
One of the main functions of the thermostat is to keep the coolant flow DOWN until correct engine temp has been reached (when the thermostat opens). This feature is intended to cut down the time an engine runs at low temp's, which is where a lot of engine wear takes place. Some people remove the thermostat because their engine is running hot / overheating. This will increase engine wear and rarely solves the problem.
/H

Roscomacaw
08-13-2005, 11:46 AM
I'm with Hank & the others here. Eliminating the thermostat is a very temporary fix (as in, you've got one that's stuck closed and you need to drive the car TODAY). The engine HAS to heat up quickly or excessive wear will rusult (over time).

Ya know, I can go with the radiator recore. Nothing wrong with having that done and having the assurance that it's going to do it's best for you. And while I know you've said it is an "aftermarket" gage you're using, you haven't indicated whether or not you've ever tried to check the coolant temp with a candy thermometer (not a meat thermometer - they don't go high enough)to see what IT says your coolant's temp truly is. OF COURSE!!! Be super-careful when removing the rad cap when you go to check the temp! You don't wanna get burned or get that stuff in your eyes!:(

What's the mix of coolant you're running, what pressure cap is it you're using, can you SEE good coolant flow with the cap removed and the engine hot, what's the temp say with the aforementioned thermometer???

I'm not so sure the one rad shop is trying to get the cleaning charges outta you only to tell you to recore in the end. I figure YOU'RE asking them if rodding CAN be done and of course, it can - it's just that there's no guarantee that it'll yeild the results you want.
Any chance you remember when recapped tires were an option? They were a cheap way to put fresh tread on your buggy. And as a young fella (with not alot of money - not unlike my situation today!), I opted for retreads on a couple of my daily drivers. Once I had one come apart at 70MPH, I saw the wisdom of buying freshly made tires instead of one's with a swab of new rubber pasted on! [}:)]
With your radiator - it's a gamble. You DO have the chance of beating the odds - or not. Just like standing next to the crap table in Vegas!:D
I've seen gunked rads, hose blockage (or collapse), loose impellers in the water pump, and gunked up temp senders (more likely in the V8s) and head gasket leakage as causes of overheating. All things to consider.;)
One fair test of your radiator is to take the lower hose off completely. Then fill it thru the neck while holding your hand over the outlet at the bottom. Once you get the rad full, release your hand from that bottom outlet - the water should GUSH out in a matter of a couple of seconds. [:0]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

52hawk
08-14-2005, 08:18 AM
Loose impellars- that reminds me.Years ago trying to diagnose a similar problem. after much head scratching,we removed a recently installed 'rebuilt'water pump. The blades on the cast iron impeller had rusted away,leaving about 1/4 of what should have been there.
All I could guess was some under paid person at the rebuilder didn't know any better,or didn't care,put it together and shipped it out. Then,who ever put it on the car,didn't notice the fault. Since the car had a'rebuilt'water pump,it was the last thing we thought of looking at.

Hawks,Larks,and other critters!

52hawk
08-14-2005, 08:28 AM
I've also seen a few faulty thermostats come over the counter.They can be tested in a pot of water on the stove,and a candy thermometer.
Does the 6 cyl thermostat require the 1/16 vent hole as the v-8's do???
Not a good idea to run any car without the thermostat,as mentioned,slow warm-up,and at speed the water could circulate too fast to be cooled .

Hawks,Larks,and other critters!

curt
08-14-2005, 09:23 AM
I have never understood the concept that H2O circulates to fast to be cooled. I know the Ford Flat head V-8 people make that statement. The same amount of cooling air is sucked through the radiator reguardless of how much water is going through the radiator, the same BTUs are lost from the total cooling water .I have heard some Ford V-8 men say the real problem of over heating is micro cracking in the engine block/head not H2O circulating to fast.

raprice
08-14-2005, 01:28 PM
I have an additional twist to the overheating problem. My '59 Lark VI was overheating, or so I thought. Before I would resort to removing the radiator, I replaced the thermostat (bought from Studebaker International) and the temp gauge was reading between 3/4 and high.
When I placed a thermometer inside the top tank of the radiator, it read a constant 160 degrees, yet the gauge was reading high. So, I knew it wasn't the radiator. The next thing that was changed was the temp sending unit attached to the head. THAT was the problem. When the sending unit was replaced, the gauge reads normal.
By the way, the service from Stude International was great.
Rog
'59 Lark Regal Hardtop

Roscomacaw
08-14-2005, 01:43 PM
curt - you're not alone here. However fast the water flows thru the staves of the radiator, it still gets the same amout of time IN the radiator. If one cooling system flows twice as fast as another, the end result will be that the contents of coolant will visit the radiator twice whereas the other only visits it once during a given amount of time.:D
Is the water flowing too fast to dispense the heat or flowing to fast to adequately absorb it from the cylinders?

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

52hawk
08-14-2005, 02:42 PM
Lets say the cooling system holds 2 gallons. The larger part of that water is in the block and hoses.Probably 1&1/2 gallons in the block absorbing heat,and 1/2 a gallon in the radiator being cooled.
The larger volume areas slow down.The way the block is built doesn't cause the water to flow through in a exact pattern,it wanders a bit.
Towing packages and such will include larger radiators for more Volume IN the radiator. I have fixed overheating problems simply by installing a thermostat where there was none.
Modern radiators are cross-flow,so gravity doesn't help the flow through the radiator as much as the old vertical type.

Hawks,Larks,and other critters!

curt
08-14-2005, 04:34 PM
Mr. Biggs, that's a great question, is the water flowing to fast to pick up heat from the cylinders, also is the water flowing so fast it take a shorter route through the engine block there by not extracting heat from every cylinder. I can see the H2O going a short route( assuming that's possible) and bypassing a cylinder or so and there by overheating the water in one area of the block,warpage, etc results. I would think as long as the water( reguardless of how fast the water is moving) can touch a cylinder it will extract heat. Now you opened my horizons a bit.Ain't it great to feal young because I'm learning....Social Secutity next year for this YOUNG 'learning fellow',ouch.[:0]

52hawk
08-15-2005, 09:04 AM
Curt! Now ya bring us back to the cleaning of the insides of the water jackets in the block.- !!? Enough sludge in them could cause all kinds of 'hotspots] No SS for me for awhile yet,but I,ve said it before, I learn something new every day,either from this forum or TW !!!! And they say you can't teach an old dog new tricks!

Hawks,Larks,and other critters!

big jim
08-16-2005, 08:26 PM
have you checked actual tem with a laser? is there a difference between 6 volt and 12 volt gauges?