Mileage question

[JDP]

OK, need some suggestions on my new GT Hawk. It was listed on ebay as a 25,000 mile car, which I took with a large grain of salt. Now, I'm not so sure about how to judge if it's possible. Here's what I do know:

The car was purchased my a elderly gent for his wife in July of 1963 and was driven by her until parked in the garage in 1972. The guy I bought him from shipped in from California and put it back on the road in 2003 and drove it another 1200 miles before I bought it. That would mean that the old gal only drove it 23,000 miles in the 9 years she used it.The original Ca. title did list the 23,000 mile figure though.

The car never smokes, does not leak oil, front suspension is tight, no rattles at all, even the window fuzzies are tight. It goes down the road better than most any Hawk I've owned. The pedals, steering wheel and arm rests show no wear. It still had the factory double bend heater hose, the inside of the water pump housing and the valve train is clean as a whistle, as is the frame. Still has the factory shocks and carpets, no sign of any restoration except a very old repaint in the factory color.
I'm convinced it's not a 125,000 mile car, but the 25,000 mile figure still seems unlikely. Anything else I should look for ? When I ebay it, I guess I'll just pass on the information I'm sure of.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk

[studegary]

John/JDP - The car could be 25K, 125K or anything else. I only guarantee the mileage on cars that I purchase new or know since new. In June, I sold my father's 1992 Chevy with 25K miles. He owned it since 1992 and I know the mileage to be correct. In the 1960s, I used to put 35K miles a year on my first car. The car looked as new at the end of a year. I had a friend that bought new cars during the '60s and drove more miles than I did. He would roll the odometers back. One of the tricks that he used was to remove the original equipment tires after about 5K miles and then put them back on the car just before he was going to sell it. In the '90s, I worked for a company that used to sell the company cars when they had about 190K miles on them. This was on cars without the "extra" digit that they now have. Most people thought that the cars looked and ran well for cars with 90K miles on them <G>. These are just a few examples. I don't go much by miles on an odometer. Some cars are great with high mileage and others are junk with low miles.

[JDP]

If this one has rolled over, someone restored it in the past, but even that does not seem likely. i.e. the steering and front end is tight, but the bushing rubber is age cracked. The window fuzzies are sun bleached, but still good. The chassis is not detailed, but not caked with grease at the fittings, even the rear axle housing shows peeling factory paint and the bare gas tank is shiny metal.
It's possible that the speedo was swapped or set back at some point,but I'm convinced it's a fairly low mileage car. I'll just say something like :
"Title shows 25,000 miles, nothing in the condition of the car would preclude the mileage indicated, but it's impossible to document a 40 year old car with certainty."

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Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk

[JDP]

Here's some pix of the GT in the middle of detailing. Almost done under the hood, the paint is buffed with compound, still needs polish and wax, have not started on the interior or wheels yet. Note the shiny white paint on the rockers now that I have the sill trim removed to polish them. Gotta love California cars.

http://stude.com/63

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Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk

[wagone]

Looks like a very nice car. Appears as though the dash is cracked in two places above the radio, I imagine the California sun can do that as well as tan young............well time to stop that drifting away from the Stude thread. So you bought it on e-bay and you are detailing it to resell on e-bay? And if not...you'll keep it. From your description I'm envious of having one in that nice a condition and therefore my first thought was "why resell it--the profit is not likely to be large". But an astute person can probably supplement income more than a little by doing just that a number of times. Kind of interesting that it has no leaks after sitting that long--one might think that gaskets had dried out like the dash. Good luck on e-bay, JDP.
wagone and Avanti I

[JDP]

For those that don't know me, I'm a Studebaker vendor, but I sell Studebaker cars as well as parts for a living. Here's 3 pages of some of the cars I've resold on ebay over the last few years.

http://stude.com/sold

Love to have kept them all, but a little short of that kind of cash.


Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk

[vaporloc]

I'am not sure how it works from state to state but in Tenn. They will not put a milage on a title of an older car. I have a show quality 64 chevyll 2dr.post car. The milage is an honest 47,000. The state of Tn. has the milage listed as zero on the title.

jerry moore

[studegary]

Looks like a winner, John. I note no tach. and it is missing a battery hold down. Do you think that the seats will clean up? I don't know if that is a before or after (detailing) shot of the interior. Do you know why it is a repaint?

[JDP]

I'll add the hold down, have not touched the interior yet, but it at least needs one new insert. The car was probably painted after it's 30 years of storage, some of which must have been outside.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk

[vaporloc]

The stude GT HAWK I'am looking at also does not have a tach. Is the wiring harness usually set up for a tach or do you have to run your own wires? Also who would be a good source to buy a factory tach and tach bezel?

jerry moore

[JDP]

I see the bezel for $25, reproduchion senders are around $80, Used tachs are $75-4100 or so, wiring harness around $25.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk

[52hawk]

In Illinois,titles won't show mileage if the car is 10 yrs old or more. Those little numbers in the middle of the dash are so easy to manipulate on older cars,mileage means nothing.
Dealers call it 'clocking' or 'fixing the clock'-- I once knew of a Ford Granada that was 'clocked' at least 3 times,when it showed a 100K,it actually had almost 200K..[this was before Illinois began putting mileage on titles]-It was well taken care of by a string of different owners,still looked and drove very well.
A mechanic at a local Buick dealership made a lot of money at night,$20-$40,any car you had would have whatever miles you wanted on it.[Took about an hour]
Years ago, I took a ride with a local used car dealer to pick up a prospective buyer,while his son turned turned back a Rambler.We were gone about 30 minutes-voila! Low mileage Rambler!
And yes,it still goes on today-even on the new digital odo's.
So,take the mileage with a grain of salt,


Hawks,Larks,and other critters!

[Bunzard]

My sister is in possession of a 1963 F-100 with 28000 miles. Our dad bought it new and I owned it for a while and sold it to her when I left the region. It had 22,000 miles when I inherited it in 1986. It is just a family pet, genuine low mile veh do exist. My mother in law drove her Olds 7,000 miles the last ten years she had a license.

[BobPalma]

Obviously, John, the only way to authenticate this car would be to take it to an SDC International Meet and have the GT Hawk Judging Team judge it. That will conclusively answer all your questions and concerns. [}]

BP

[casey]

If you decide to put this GT on EBay you should post a notice here two weeks or so beforehand. A lot of us would like a chance to jump on that thing.

And it looks to me like the car could have only 25,000 orig miles. Just hard to believe a 42 year old car with that low mileage could exist. Guess you got lucky.