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View Full Version : 9G Rear Axle with O.D.



50starlite
07-31-2005, 06:43 PM
My 1950 Champion 9G rear axle tag says 410 but the car has O.D.

Could this been a special order or do you think the 456 has been changed out. My shop manual says the champion should have a 456 with O.D.

Also, pro/con?

Thanks,
Dick

Roscomacaw
07-31-2005, 08:34 PM
Not a big deal in my opinion. The 4.10 was stadard if you DIDN'T get O/D, so as far as take-off goes, the 4.56 would get you away from a standstill a wee bit quicker. Thing is, the little 6 would be winding right quick by the time you got to 55 or 60 without the 30% advantage that O/D affords you.
With the 4.10 gears, you get away a wee bit slower than with the 4.56. But since you'd be without O/D, 55 or 60 would be a little easier on the engine's revving. Trouble is, that would be about the max you'd wanna push that Champion without O/D - whereas with the o/D and the 4.56, you can cruise 65-70MPH all day long without spinning the daylights outta that little 6.
The 4.10 coupled with the O/D just gives you a little bit more top end latitude - but not much. It's certainly not much to worry about and I doubt you'd feel much performance difference if you DID put 4.56 gears in it.[:I]
It well could have been special order. The way to find out would be to get the build sheet and see. It'll say what ratio it was built with.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

studegary
07-31-2005, 08:46 PM
If you are happy driving it with that ratio, live with it, otherwise change it.
There are three possiblities that I can think of;
1) the car was built with that combination - it might have been a flat land,highway car
2) the rear end or gears were changed - not as likely
3) the car was originally a standard without overdrive and was converted to overdrive without changing the rear end ratio - this was commonly done - some now note the high percentage of Studebakers that exist with overdrive - I don't think that such a high percentage was built - engines and cars with overdrive tended to last longer - many of the surviving cars have been converted to overdrive during their lifetime.
Get a build sheet for your car from the SNM and you will find out how it was originally built.

Roscomacaw
08-01-2005, 02:16 AM
"some now note the high percentage of Studebakers that exist with overdrive - I don't think that such a high percentage was built"

And what's the basis of this observation?[B)]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

1949commander
08-01-2005, 09:04 AM
Only negative of having 4.10 in a Champion is that you will have to kick it out of overdrive on hills or to pass. Gee that sounds like all new cars[:p] I drove a new Dodge Ram with the all mighty 340 Hp Hemi and just the slightest hill caused the tranny to shift out of overdrive 5th.[:0] and to get any passing it shifted into 3rd. They have a 5 speed auto for a reason.

Enjoy the extra fuel saving the 4.10 gears will give your Champ!:D

Restore it, don't replace it.Keep the Studebaker reproduction industry going

studegary
08-01-2005, 01:48 PM
Bob/MrBiggs - The basis for my statement about overdrive production is two-fold.
1) Vehicles with overdrive tended to last for more miles (easier on the drivetrain).
2) The large number of Studebakers that I was involved with, and that I know of, that started as three speed standards and were converted to overdrives in the '60s, '70s and '80s. It is probably still being done, but I am not involved in it. Especially people that were going to drive their Studebakers long distances, like to SDC International Conventions, would convert to overdrive. We usually took the whole set up out of a wrecked or rusty car and switched the parts.
I am sure that the percentage of overdrive cars originally sold was higher in some areas of the country than in other areas, depending on the type of driving that was common to that area.
I have owned and driven many standard shift Studebakers, but the only ones with overdrive were not built that way by the factory (just thought of one exception - my 1957 Golden Hawk).
This is the basis of my personal observation. Only a complete search of the build records would tell the whole story and I am not going to take the time to do that.

curt
08-01-2005, 09:52 PM
I had a Kaiser with added OD and the rear end was not changed. It had the tires series that go like,D78 14, C78 14, etc. The car was built for the series of tires like 6.70 15, 7.10 15, etc. The car ran like a wild cat on teh interstate and did not have problems pulling hills at lower speeds. What I am saying the tires I had on the car were about 1.5 inches less in circumference and this made a perfect driver. Judges did not like the tires, non stock. I could get a silver at the National and I would have driven that sucker 1500 miles one way .

DilloCrafter
08-01-2005, 10:18 PM
Since we're on the topic of 3 spd w/ OD and 4.10 gear ratio, may I ask what you guys think of using that combination in my 55 truck? I have the 185 six in there now, but may or may not get a 259. I have already learned the opinion of RebelStude StudebakerTruckParts.com, who feels that the 4.09 ratio with OD is ideal for trucks, whether with a six or a V8. Opinions here?

Thanks,
Paul

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup

Roscomacaw
08-01-2005, 10:30 PM
Well Gary,
I started buying and parting out Studes in '73. This was in Georgia. And while there was a chapter of SDC there by the time I got into the cars, there's no way they could have gone around and converted all the Studes in the area. What I found most of the time was that if the car/truck was a 3spd, it had O/D. Even in the wrecking yards, where the Studes that had missed the boat of collectability resided, you could almost count on any 3-spd being with O/D. I remember distinctly - a 62 Lark we found with straight 3-spd. We thought it quite odd.
Of course, there were 4-speeds and automatics, but I'm gonna bet you that OD ruled when it came to 3-spd cars and trucks. Of course, terrain WOULD have had some influence as well as intended duty (Wouldn't be too much call for a town taxi edition to sport OD)
There's a yard here in Fresno (it's actualy been forced to close of late) where they had 30+ Studes in the yard. They were either 3-spds w/OD or automatics.
Of course, you're right in that all this is anecdotal evidence. And I neither have the time, money nor burning desire to research the records to see if my observations would be supported by the archives.:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

DilloCrafter
08-01-2005, 11:26 PM
Here's something interesting I found on this topic, in Bill Cathcart's website. Use the left side menu button for his "Articles" page if you want it in full context: http://www.cathcartsstudebaker.com/

To quote Mr. Cathcart's section that deals with this particular issue:
quote:I have found that the Champion engine runs best at between 2,500 and 2,800 RPM, cars with overdrive usually have either 4:28 or 4:56 gears, cars with out overdrive usually had 3:73 or 4:10 gears. My 1950 has 4:10 gears with overdrive, I have a 185 CU.IN engine with dual carbs and dual exhaust making about 125 H.P.I can run at 75 MPH on the turnpike easily and pull most hills and maintain that 75 MPH, granted I have to put my foot into it on a steep hill, 4.28 gears probally would be better, but are harder to find.


1955 1/2 Ton Pickup

Transtar60
08-02-2005, 12:43 AM
Mr Biggs/Gary.
Just to add to the OD discussion. Out of 18 more or less Studebakers I have on hand right now.

3 V8 trucks w/ 3spd OD
1 V8 truck w/ 5 spd OD
4 six cylinder larks w/ 3spd
5 65-66's V8 and six w/ automatic
3 V8 trucks w/ 4 Spd HD
1 V8 truck w/ 4spd(T-98)
1 59 car V8 w/ automatic
1 2R17A six w/ 4 spd

studegary
08-02-2005, 06:46 PM
Thanks Transtar60 - I note that all four of your standard shift cars are three speed without OD. Without a search of the build records, none of us will know the original overall ratio of standard to OD. I do concede that the popularity of OD varied by area of the country and driving conditions. Overdrive was a fairly expensive option on base model cars (for frugal Studebaker buyers - of course that thinking may have driven them to OD if they planned on keeping the car long enough for it to pay). The point that I was trying to make is that of the Studebakers in use now, a higher percentage of cars with standard have overdrive than when originally built. I was only considering cars, but of the Studebaker trucks that I have owned, there were no ODs. I can remember getting loaner cars from the Studebaker dealership. They were always three speed without OD.