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Swifster
07-02-2005, 09:24 PM
OK, I have the front clip off the car, and I'm working on my shopping list (long). I was looking at pulling the guage and switch cluster and I'm looking at ideas for pulling this. I'd like to do this as an assenbly. The cables for the 'Climatizer' have been disconnected. Other than wiring, what else needs to be unbolted.

I've looked under from the backside and it looks like it's mounted to the body in six locations. Does this sound right? Any idea about how to remove the bolt mounted near the clutch pedal spring? Did I mention the service manual can be rather useless in certain situations?

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Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

JDP
07-02-2005, 10:09 PM
I find it easier to pull the entire dash to do that.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
55 Speedster
50 2R 10 truck

Swifster
07-02-2005, 10:30 PM
And the bolts are where? [:o)]

And does the brace the gauge cluster is mounted to comes out with? It looked like it was welded in, but I hadn't looked that hard at that piece :D. Ah, the joy of learning new (old?) things...

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Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

Roscomacaw
07-03-2005, 12:15 AM
There's two bolts at each end of the dash. Then there's the pedal support piece you mentioned (which serves to secure the steering column also) and the screws across the top, front edge.
Fact is, you'd do well to pull the harness back thru the firewall and disconnect it from the taillight harness and take it out with the dash as well.:D Btw, look at the plastic bushings that the pedal shafts rotate in while you have all this apart. They're probably shot by now.

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Swifster
07-03-2005, 08:35 AM
Thanks guys. Biggs, I'm tearing the car down to a shell before having it chemically stripped and e-coated. Nothing worn will be put back on :).

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Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

rockne10
07-03-2005, 06:33 PM
Then pulling the complete dash is a given.

Swifster
07-03-2005, 07:36 PM
quote:Originally posted by rockne10

Then pulling the complete dash is a given.


It is. But as I mentioned, the service manual leaves a lot to be desired. In most cars it's not that big a deal to get the cluster out first. It was more of a 'what could I get done in the time allowed' thing.

I'm marking and tagging the parts as they come out and off of the car so I know where everything goes and how it goes together. I don't want to get started disassembling something and get stuck leaving something half disassembled. Just trying to be organized.

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Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

studeclunker
07-04-2005, 09:33 PM
I know what you mean about the manuals. They assume a certain level of competence and familiarity. Neither of which I possess. What is needed is a book like "Volkswagon repair for idiots." At least, I think that's what the name was... Anyway. That was a book that assumed nothing about one's level of competence. And the subject was handled with some humor as well

Lotsa Larks!
Studeclunker
A.K.A: out2lunch

Roscomacaw
07-04-2005, 10:42 PM
Swiftster muses: "In most cars it's not that big a deal to get the cluster out first."

Swiftster - most cars don't have all the switches integrated with what you call a "cluster". Now to get what I would call the "cluster" out (in the case of this '64), it only takes two 3/8ths nuts and the cluster (the cluster of 4 gages, that is) pulls out. Same way with the speedo head - which is independent of the four gage cluster.
What you're trying to achieve is removal of just about everything electrical and mechanical, associated with the gages and controls. What other car has all that mounted to one facia? Apples - Oranges - maybe. But I don't think the manual was written to suit someone someday disassembling the whole car. I think you have to take the manual in the perspective it was written with in mind - servicing - not refubishing.[}:)]
Not bashing you here - just reminding you that these books were written to address a different scenario than restoration.:D

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

lark55
07-04-2005, 11:41 PM
swiftster - I might suggest a digital camera to document everything as you take it apart.We use them to document test systems we mock-up at work before we tear them apart to send in for cleaning and refurbishing.A good black and white photograph saves a tremendous amount of time on re-assembly.

Swifster
07-05-2005, 01:00 AM
Biggs, most of my experience has been with Mother Mopar and the old Chrysler Corporation. I never had to yank a complete dash assembly out of a car to get at the cluster regardless of the switch configuration. This goes from my small '62 Dodge Lancer and '69 Plymouth Valiant, to the large '67 Chrysler 300 and '71 Plymouth Fury GT. With the exception of the '69 Valiant, these cars included all heater controls, along with headlamp, wiper, and in one case (the Lancer) the ignition switch. These cars allowed for servicing of this assembly without vehicle deconstruction. They also used printed circuit boards (modern technology) where the Studes dash looks like an aftermarket after thought.

The service manuals for the above cars were far more discriptive than anything in the Studebaker manuals. Without exception, the service and body manuals give a thorough explaination (I still have all but the '67 Chrysler manual) on how to pull the clusters and the dash assembly as required.

There appears to be 8 screws holding the Daytona cluster in place. Wouldn't you agree that removing just the cluster to service the switches or instruments would be easier than pulling the entire dash?

Lark, I've been taking digital pictures off every disassembly and each mounting point. I have over 300 photos from the planning and front clip disassembly stages. The pictures for the disassembly have been dated and filed by the area they purtain too (front clip, etc.). Some parts are missing (front bumper assembly, upper air deflector, radiator, etc.) and lists have been made for these. SASCO has some of these parts and others shouldn't be that hard to find. Others, like the radiator, will be replaced with racing pieces and original parts won't be necessary.

Parts that I won't be reusing, like the brake calipers, front suspension, rear axle, etc., will be marked and saved for a future R3 Challenger clone. I'm getting more pictures of these while still on the car and have those in a seperate file.

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Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

Roscomacaw
07-05-2005, 01:43 AM
Swiftster asks: "Wouldn't you agree that removing just the cluster to service the switches or instruments would be easier than pulling the entire dash?"

Indeed I would agree. I would never PULL the dash just to get to the switches! I'd either just remove the offending switch or remove one of the circular gage pods to gain better access to the offending switch. But pull the whole DASH[?] I've owned a number of 63s & 64s and never found the need to remove the dash to service anything.
Now - to rehab EVERYTHING in the course of an overhaul like I sense you're doing? - sure, pull the dash. Makes lots of attention to the firwall area and heater system easier.

Hey - my only Mopar experience was a '64 Imperial, '64 Newport and a '61 Seneca - none of which I ever did anything with but drive. Come to think of it tho, I have done some disassembly to a 64 Chrysler dash to scavenge some parts for a friend's car.
Either way, I'm not qualified to compare one against the other.:(

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Swifster
07-05-2005, 06:06 PM
Well, the gauges are going to be rebuilt by Classic Instruments using the same housings. I'm hoping to scavange a an old speedo to use for a tach that actually looks like it belongs there. Everything, including the speedo, will be converted to electric. The amp gauge will become a volt gauge as that gauge isn't meant to flow 135 amps through. The switches I'm getting new from Eaton with a delay on the wipers and a headlamp switch that includes fog lamp and interior dim switches. I'm making a machine-turned facing for the gauges and along the front of the dash. Modern, but with '60's flare. I might have two of the tachs made so I have a spare for a Challenger.

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Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)