PDA

View Full Version : pinion angle



52hawk
06-21-2005, 09:50 PM
I am putting a furd 9" rear end in my 61 hawk.While I am waiting for Goldenhawk to re-stock and ship a pair of rear leaf springs,can some one tell me[in simple terms]how to set the pinion angle on the rear end? I will be cutting the perches off and rewelding them,since they need to be moved inward abit.

Are those fins supposed to be on there?from the factory?

Dick Steinkamp
06-21-2005, 10:05 PM
I'm a fine one to talk since I installed a 327 Chev in my '54 and have made other modifications to the car, but you may want to consider staying with a Dana 44. Only the very early 9" Fords (1957) will be narrow enough for your '61. All others will have to be narrowed (expensive) or you will have very little room between the drum face and the fender for tire. Also, rewelding perches is tricky and prone to warping the axle tubes (not a good thing) even when extra care is taken to minimize the heat (and still get sufficient penetration). The Dana 44 is as strong as a 9" Ford (IMHO), especially with the new flanged axle conversion. In addition, it is somewhat lighter.

Jeff Rice is the expert on setting pinion angles and hopefully will jump in here.

-Dick-

52hawk
06-24-2005, 08:24 AM
Thanks for the advice Dick.I may stick with the '44.My original thought was saiving money,the 9" is free! The original rear needs everything at the outer ends,still maybe better to redo it than change the whole rear .[but that $500 for axles is just not in the picture right now!] Thanks Again!

Are those fins supposed to be on there?from the factory?

Mike Van Veghten
06-24-2005, 09:16 AM
52,
If the stock rear end is still in place, measure its angle and match the Ford to it!
The Ford is many, many times stronger thAn the Dana 44, but it's really not needed in the case of the standard Stude. But for free....
When I installed the quick change in my 54 I set the pinion at 0 degrees. Parallel to the ground at ride height.

DEEPNHOCK
06-24-2005, 03:24 PM
I have a 9" Ford diff in my '61 Hawk.
Here's how to do it...
(Assuming you have removed your old mounts and have a nice new pair of mounts from someplace like Speedway Automotive....)... Have the diff tubes ground squeaky clean and no rust, or goo on any parts to be welded.
Set the diff on the spring mount pads setting on the springs and put the u-bolts on and snug them up just a little past snug (but not impact wrench tight)
Making sure the diff is centered side to side.
Hook the driveshaft up (it should be just a straight forward installation).

Have the car set down on jackstands on the spring u-bolt plates. The weight of the car should not be on the frame, or the diff housing...but on the spring plates. This will put the differential at 'ride height'
Get out your fancy schmancy digital LED readout angle finder....Wha[:0] You don't have one of those? Well neither do most people;).. You can get a gravity one from Harbor Freight for about $6.
Put the tool on the trans yoke flat edge (when the flat is at 6 O'clock to the crankshaft centerline). Read this angle. (Don't worry about the car being all crooked up on stands). Rotate the driveshaft 1/4 turn and slide back and do the same thing on the pinion yoke. See what this angle is. Rotate the differential housing up or down (in relation to the pinion centerline) until the angle on the pinion is about 1 degree down from the trans yoke. Drag racers run more than this, but for a street catr, this should be fine.
When you've got it where you want it... Check it again.
Then, after you've done that. Check it again.
If you are still satisfied. Then tack weld all four corners of the diff spring mounts. Remember... A tack weld only.
(Do NOT hook your welder ground up to an axle stud, or any current path that would run it through a bearing![:0])
Then take the diff out and set it on a separate pair of jackstands up on a bench where welding will be easy to do. You will need to be comfortable in your stance and be able to easily rotate the housing to make your welds. Stick welding this? If so, get out your chip hammer, wire brush and face shield. Get your shop air hose out with a blow gun tip on the hose end. Mig welding? Lucky guy;)
Start at the center on the outside of the spring pad. Make a nice, short 1/4" long weld. STOP! Take your chip hammer and knock the slag off the weld and wire brush it. Admire your nice bead. Then, take your air compressor blow gun and blow the crud off this pretty little weld. Then Go do the same on the other perch. STOP! Take your chip hammer and knock the slag off the weld and wire brush it. Admire your nice bead. Then, take your air compressor blow gun and blow the crud off this pretty little weld. Go do the same (on the inside) of the first perch..STOP! Take your chip hammer and knock the slag off the weld and wire brush it. Admire your nice bead. Then, take your air compressor blow gun and blow the crud off this pretty little weld. Then do the same on the insdie of the other perch. STOP! Take your chip hammer and knock the slag off the weld and wire brush it. Admire your nice bead. Then, take your air compressor blow gun and blow the crud off this pretty little weld.
The reason for the repetetive cleaning and wire brushing, and using the air gun is to cool off the weld area. You can seriously warp the differential tubes if you get all 'weldy like' and go to town making 2" long beads on the housing. The welds will be great, but the housing will warp like a Brautwurst soaked in beer[:p]. Not a good thing. By going slow, changing sides, rotating the housing to keep your welds horizontal...You won't get the housing hot enough to bend, and your welds will be better. Trying to do this all hunched over on the floor will make you a hunchback cripple, so take the time to set it up right for welding in comfort.
Here are some pic's of the 9" housing I set up for my Coupe Express.

http://community.webshots.com/album/42709364fffYOh

Lot's o'stuff welded on it and it is straight arrow. You can

Transtar60
06-24-2005, 05:28 PM
I thought the reason people went w/ 9" rears was the ease of swapping gears??

I really dont see 44's as weak considering many large engined 4x4's etc use OEM 44's, sometimes front and rear.(Sometimes using 27's up front),
and many upgrades for Jeeps etc involve a Dana 44. From the truck spec book its rated at 1830 ft. lbs of input torque. The 2 ton truck rears were rated @ 2150 ft.lbs input torque.

52hawk
06-24-2005, 06:46 PM
DEEPNHOCK- Hi Jeff! Thank You so much for the info! I will print it out tonight.I AM a body man,[have mig,will travel!] As I've said,there is a cost factor involved here,I'm not gonna race the car,but $500 for a pair of axles--????And,the '44 needs everything,from the wheel bearings out.[lotta rough miles] Mr Steinkamp hoped you would step up to bat on this question,Thanks to all you guys for good advice!!!
Thanks for the pics!! Yeah,I can do it!!!

Are those fins supposed to be on there?from the factory?

Sonny
06-25-2005, 01:33 AM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK


I have a 9" Ford diff in my '61 Hawk.
Here's how to do it... <SNIPPED A LOT OF GOOD STUFF.......>
Jeff[8D]

Now DAT is why this place is so great! Dat's the way to do it Jeffster! [^] Nice show! [8D][^]

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Alan
06-25-2005, 10:20 AM
The 57-59 Ford 9" are the same width but I like the station wagon or ranchero rears for the large bearings. The pads on these will drop right in a 53-54K with just a little wiggiling of the springs about a 1/4" or 1/2" difference in width at spring pads. Thing is they are getting hard to find now.

DEEPNHOCK
06-25-2005, 03:39 PM
I would tend to agree with you.
A well set up Dana 44 is a stout piece.
Especially with a set of Moser flanged axles (from Fairborn Studebaker)...
And getting a 9" all set up right isn't cheap either...
Buy a R%P, a carrier, a posi unit and a pair of axles and you are over a grand easy...
I have a 4.11 gear set to swap, and haven't put it in since South Bend 2002...
Jeff




quote:Originally posted by Transtar60

I thought the reason people went w/ 9" rears was the ease of swapping gears??

I really dont see 44's as weak considering many large engined 4x4's etc use OEM 44's, sometimes front and rear.(Sometimes using 27's up front),
and many upgrades for Jeeps etc involve a Dana 44. From the truck spec book its rated at 1830 ft. lbs of input torque. The 2 ton truck rears were rated @ 2150 ft.lbs input torque.


DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

hank63
06-26-2005, 05:25 AM
Re the "warp like a Bratwurst" comment - yes, an important point. Before you start welding you may want to check what you already have. With the axle out, clamp a straight piece of steel (about 1 meter long) centrally to each hub/drum. Use a spirit level to get the steel pieces level. Then measure the distance between the steel pieces, behind and in front of the axle. The difference will be toe-in or toe-out. If it's more than you can accept, be prepared for some straightening if your pad welding doesn't improve the situation.
/H