c/k frame-- rearend--chevy engine

[bradnree]

Any conversion tips ?? Brad

[Roscomacaw]

The frames are the same gage but there's a difference in thickness between 6cylinder cars and V8 cars. The 6s had lighter gage frames than the V8 cars. And the 53s had the flimsiest frames of any of the C-K cars . Improvments were made to the frames over the years with the 64 frames supposedly the best.
The V8 rears (a Dana type 44) would stand up to the GM engines. Better yet if you installed the new flanged axle conversion in it. The 6cylinder rear would be garbage in a short time![xx(]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

[N8N]

To clarify a little... I know what Mr. Biggs was trying to say but it may not be 100% clear to someone who doesn't know Studes...

C and K frames are the same gauge steel on otherwise identical cars (year and engine)

In some (most or all?) years, the six cylinder cars had lighter gauge frames.

Frames were made progressively thicker over the years, the GT Hawks had the thickest metal of all.

I agree on the Dana 44. Heck, a 300 HP SBC probably doesn't put out that much more *torque* than a stock Stude engine.

nate


--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop

http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

[Dan White]

Here is a conversion tip, try a Stude V8 instead of a SBC. You should be able to get 250 to 300 hp from a Stude with a little work. There are plenty of folks in the club that can help you get the power you are looking for and stay somewhat original. (Take a look at Ted Harbit running a Stude V8 and blowing away BBC and others!) You can run a 4 spd, 5spd, or GM automatic (the last 2 with a conversion kit) if you want to run a different tranny. Why do you want to go to a SBC?

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

[Dick Steinkamp]

One other frame point...from '54 and up, an additional crossmember was added (near the front of the doors) which did a lot to stiffen things. Also, it makes a handy point for a trans mount if you end up installing a non-Studebaker trans.

I was at a car show this weekend. An 1952 Starlight was there that had been drag racing since the early 1960's in various forms from stock to a blown R3 engine. He was still running the keyed axle Dana 44 that the car came with (essentially the same rear end used through 1964). His best times were mid 12's. I would think he was making in excess of 500 HP to run those times with a heavy car. IMHO, the Dana 44 is as strong as a 9" Ford and lighter. As Biggs pointed out, it is even stronger and safer with the new flanged axle conversion.

Replacing the stock engine/trans is not a simple job. There is no "kit". There are front mounts available from some Stude vendors, but you will still be inventing and fabricating rear mounts, drive shaft, cooling, exhaust, throttle, shift/clutch linkage, fuel delivery, etc. etc. I have a Chevy in my '54 and I'd be happy to help you. If you haven't done something like this before, however, it can be frustrating and expensive (can be even if you've done it before <g&gt

Regards,
-Dick-
-Dick-

[BeeJay]

Have just recently put a C and a K on the street with Small Block Chevy's. While having front clip off, I boxed the frame by welding plates from top of frame to the "hat" section. Also replaced front suspension. Everyone has their own thing' but my thinking is that if you want 300HP why rework an engine to upgrade when you can get that out of a crate. Then if you want to rework, you can get much more than the 300HP. As a plus, parts for a small block Chev are available anywhere. If you intend to drive, you do not have to carry your spare parts with you. Leaves a lot more room for a bigger cooler.

Just my opinion.
BJ

Own '53 Commander Starliner. Red w/beige top. 350 Chev/700R4. Tilt,cruise,A/C.

[Roscomacaw]

I'm gonna chime in here with my old verse. You can totally ignore it and I won't be the least bit annoyed. I've been branded with the P-word (purist - said with a tone of groan) and called A** H*** enough times to where I've considered that maybe it's true. Just words tho. I'm at least sure that I'm NOT a "purist" by anyone's stretch. My PERSONAL guidelines? Keep the body - keep the motor - change EVERYTHING else if you like! It's STILL a Studebaker.
If you're entranced by a Studebaker - why not have a WHOLE Studebaker? They designed and built their own engines. They debuted a V8 FOUR years before one showed up in a Chevy showroom and it was superior to the latecomer in a number of ways. With a stock forged crankshaft, solid lifters and a meaty block that doesn't NEED lower end enhancments to be able to crank out 800HP (not a typo), they were ahead of the game from the start.[}]
Yes, you can buy HP off the shelf with bow-tie stuff. I don't deny that. But then you've basically got a chevy in Stude clothing. Goes fast alright, and is another chrome-bedecked yawner under the hood.
Why not show that you're REALLY different by lighting your tires with something that all the others know NADA about? A kick-ass Studebaker engine. Of course, it IS your car, and I respect that. But for the cost of the engine and engineering you'll invest, you can get a 259 or 289, have the heads massaged and show something that'll have the usual suspects scratching their collective heads. Oh - and it'll basically bolt right in!

Go to Sonny's website Racingstudebakers.com and explore a bit. See what's really what as to superior small blocks. Also be advised that the Salt-to-Salt team's just got dyno results back on the 185 flathead 6 they'll be running again at Bonneville - 250 HP!!! But, what do we know? All the hot rod magazines TELL you what's cool. And buying from their advertizers makes everyone happy.

Read what Dick and Dan have said here. There's no need for me to repeat the info they provide. And while Dick has a gorgeous, black Starliner with a 327 go-motor in it, we're still pretty good friends![:I] My bottom-line summation is that the sheet metal is only HALF the legacy that Studebaker left for us to marvel over. Just because most folks don't gush: "WOW! What a cool-lookin' motor!" doesn't mean the Stude engines don't have merit. And LOTS of it!

If you're still bent on re-motoring your Stude, there's folks here that can share. I can't because I haven't. Please don't think less of me for that failing.

OK - off my well-worn soapbox now. Throw your tomatoes and rotting fruit if you like. I'm used to it.[xx(]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

[Dan White]

I get Rod and Custom magazine and there appears to be a resurgence of orginal power plants in a lot of rods. For example several months ago a guy did a outstanding job making a '50 2 door convertible Kaiser from a sedan. Kaiser did not make a convertible until '52 I believe. Anyway the car was outstanding in many ways, but what really got my attention was the engine. It had a Paxton blown Kaiser (i.e. Continental) flathead 6! This guy could have easily taken the SBC route with all the work he put into his ride, but he didn't and that made the job all that much more outstanding. Seeing a worked Stude with 2 x 2 or something unusual always catches my eye, it shows a certain amount of originality and creativity that is often lacking in many rides.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

[studegary]

Bob/Mr.Biggs - In general, I agree with you and your post. I just have to pick on one small item. Chevrolet cars had a model with a V8 engine in 1917. I am sure that you are referring to the more recent SBC from 1955. I don't believe that Studebaker used a V8 engine before 1951. Most engine parts for Studebaker V8s from 1951 to 1964 can be interchanged, but I don't believe that any parts from a late model SBC can be interchanged with those from a 1955. Chevrolet advertises 50 years of this engine, but I don't consider it to be the same engine. I will sum up my opinion with, it's your car, do what you want.

[Swifster]

Yes, I'm using a small block 'Cadillac'. Actually I'm using a GM Gen III engine from a Cadillac Escalade. I call it a Cadillac engine as this engine (LQ9) is only available in the Escalade.

As most of this car is being modified (Corvette suspension, supercharged EFI engine, 6-speed trans, leather interior, etc.) I understand the urge to change things over to things we're familiar with. My goal with the car was to run it in Real Street Eliminator http://carcraft.com/eventcoverage/116_0504_rse/. I highly doubt I'd be able to get 550 HP and drivable manors with a 289 Studie, even with the supercharger.

Now, that being said, I'm getting a serious itch to get a '64 Challenger or Commander and stuff it with a slightly modified R3 engine and 4-speed. I'm doing some casual looking for another frame so I can keep the Daytona frame and suspension intact to use on a Challenger. I'm even looking at doubling up some of my part purchases to be prepared when the Daytona is done.

My goal, one modified Stude and one all Stude.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Sterling Heights, MI

Ancient Chinese Proverb: "Injection is nice, but I'd rather be blown!"

1964 Studebaker Daytona - Laguna Blue, Original 4-Spd. Car, Power Steering, Disc Brakes, Bucket Seats, Tinted Glass, Climatizer Ventilation System, AM Radio (136,989 Miles)

[Alan]

The frame rails on my 53K are .071 thick. I have put 13 different engines in the car over 47 years. With over 275,000 miles on the body and chassis it still holds it's own under the power of a 355 Turbo Chevy
and a Tremic 5 Speed it runs 11.25 , 127 MPH. with 525 RWHP. but go into a driveway at the wrong angle and the door will sometimes pop. But I still gravatate back to Stude power but it is getting expensive.

[mjeansonne]

I came very close to changing my Champ to Chevy engine, transmission and heck, even the frame. Boy did that stir some comments. But as Bro. Barlow Soper says: its your car... do what you want that makes you happy. I say, if thats the only way to keep the Stude name on the road... what the heck.

But then again, would you want to put a Honda engine in a Harley Davidson Bike? Of course not!!!!!

Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

[Alan]

Like the Grump says if you spit on anything long enough it will go in, back in the 60's I put a 430 Linclon in a 49 Crosley station wagon because a friend of mine said it wouldn't fit.

[MarkC]

Alan, a 430 Lincoln in a Crosley? I'm old enough to remember the Crosley, and THAT's a conversion I wish I could have seen!

Mark

MarkC, 64 Y8
Working in Spokane, WA

[Roscomacaw]

Heh-heh..... Gary, you are a piece of work![}] When I was typing up my little post about my take on motor transplants, I thought to myself: "I need to make damned sure I put a disclaimer in this for Gary's sake, or he's gonna bop me on the nose with a newspaper over the 1917 Chevy V8!"
In the end,I forgot to do that and as predictable as the sunrise, you threw it up for me. Bless you for being predictably anal. If only we could count on more people to dot eyes and cross teas.
No, in fact I might well ENCOURAGE someone to do a 1917 Chevy V8 transplant if they had a mind to. At least it would be something original![:0]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS