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SoCal54Champion
06-08-2005, 11:10 PM
I've read a number of posts regarding modern gasoline and the challenges using this fuel. In So California in particular most grades of gas are aerated with methanol. Use of a lead substitue is verbotten except for off road use. When I got my car it had more than 1/2 tank of gas in it so I've not needed to fill it til now.
In general what is suggested? I've seen diesel fuel(1qt to a tank full) Marvels Mystery Oil(10oz to a tank full), etc. etc. etc.
Secondly what octane is preferrable? 87/89/91 ???
Thanks everyone.

Dave

"Oh That? It's a STUDEBAKER!!"

Roscomacaw
06-09-2005, 12:09 AM
Your Champion will be happy with 87 octane. You DO NOT need any lead addatives or substitutes. The diesel fuel, mystery oil, kerosene stuff is only needed if you experience vapor-locking problems in warm weather. Roughly one gallon to a fill-up or a ratio respective of that.
You DON'T need hardened valve seats to cope with the modern gas either. That's for "lesser" vehicles like Chevys and Furds.:(

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

curt
06-09-2005, 08:04 AM
No need for hard valve seats,how come? Is the block/head made of a super strong metal, are the valves of better quality metal. I like the idea of no need for hardned valve seats and valves.

Transtar56
06-09-2005, 10:21 AM
Thats pretty much it,the Stude blocks are very hard.And the valves are already hard enough to burn unleaded with no problems.Like Biggs says,don't try this with your ordinary engines.

jcstude
06-09-2005, 12:17 PM
Another consideration when dealing with the newly reformulated fuels is the way it reacts to soft parts in your fuel system. If you have the stock fuel pump, the internal parts may break down over time unless it has been freshened up with a rebuild kit. Fuel pumps/pump kits are relatively inexpensive when compared to a tow charge from the middle of the San Joaqin Valley. At the other end of the fuel system is the fuel quantity sender float. The OEM float is made of cork and coated with shellac. If you start seeing brown sediment in your fuel pump bowl you may want to pull the sender and dip the cork in shellac to keep it from breaking down further. New senders are available from Stewart Warner but they are for 12 volt vehicles and may not read correctly in a 6 volt car. Also, take a look at the flex line that goes from the chassis mounted hard line to the fuel pump. Mine had a pin hole leak in it that did not allow fuel to escape, but when the tank was nearly empty, and going up a long steep grade, the pump would start sucking air and the engine would starve and die.

Lew in Escondido, CA

65cruiser
06-09-2005, 01:28 PM
Hate to ask this, but would a McKinnon fall into that "lesser" category? :(


quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

You DON'T need hardened valve seats to cope with the modern gas either. That's for "lesser" vehicles like Chevys and Furds.:(

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS


________________________
Mark Anderson
http://home.alltel.net/anderm
1965 Studebaker Cruiser

MarkC
06-09-2005, 01:30 PM
As for the "hard" steel used in Studebaker blocks and heads (not to mention forged internals), there are logical reasons (economic) why smaller manufacturers used these materials (AMC did too). It's a matter of development time and money. It takes more of each to engineer less expensive components (of less expensive materials and/or manufacturing methods) that will still last the expected time and endure expected stresses (thereby making it through the warranty period). Deep pocket companies can afford it up front, while others go with beefier pieces (and more expensive individually) initially and hope to have the time and funds later. It sidesteps a potfull of potential liability in the short term, but does cost the company more per piece over the long term. And of course, after you've been in production for a time, the costs to re-tool the plant increase exponentially as well.

MarkC, 64 Y8
Working in Spokane, WA

Roscomacaw
06-09-2005, 02:43 PM
Yup!:D Higher nickel content cast iron. Saves you the cost and complexity of hardened seats.;) Waste of money on a Stude engine unless you're gonna use said engine in a 2ton truck and really lug it in each gear.[xx(] I've got WAY too many miles on Stude engines WITHOUT the seat insterts and without problems for any "expert" to convince me otherwise.[}:)]

Sadly, yes, a McKinnon would be succeptible to seat erosion. But frankly, until you NEED valve work, I wouldn't tear into it just for safety's sake. The old line about "if it ain't broke - don't fix it!" has real merit.[^]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Mike Van Veghten
06-09-2005, 02:55 PM
Dave,

I use the 87 in my flat head with no problems. Just make sure if you have much detionation to either use the 89 oct. or take some timing out of it.

As for this "hard" metal stuff. I've found it to be VERY hit and miss. At the time metallurgy was not as finely honed as today. In doing port work on several sets of Stude V-8 heads I've noticed several things that tell me at any given time, the batch being poured may be at the "best"/top of the specification used and some were at the bottom of said spec. And...I believe the spec. was fairly generous.

In my Lark, I've found that the intake setting is pretty solid. The exhaust on the other hand is pretty bad. Needing adjustment "about" every 4000 to 4500 miles. I'm guessing it'll be sooner than later a time for hard seats.....at least on this batch of "hard metal" heads!

If you plan to do much driving....yes, try a fuel additive won't hurt a thing. You're Stude doesn't have computer sensors anywhere?!

Hey...you going to the Saturday night cruze again?

SoCal54Champion
06-09-2005, 03:34 PM
Mike,
Probably not going to make it Saturday to the Fuddruckers in Pasadena. Too much family stuff this weekend. If I do it will be late. I will probably hold off for a week or two. I will drop you an email to let you know if I make plans for it.
Thanks everyone for the advice. The car had alot of gas in it when it arrived. I drained out about a gallon or so, filtered it and put it aside for the lawn mower, not too bad looking but it could have been years old and I was worried about water and rust in the bottom of the tank.[xx(]
I do have a stock fuel pump so I will have to keep on eye on that issue.

Dave


"Oh That? It's a STUDEBAKER!!"

Mike Van Veghten
06-09-2005, 04:07 PM
Dave, all in So. Cal. ...

The Fathersday L.A., Roadster Show at the Pomona Fairgrounds on Fathersday weekend. Lots to see...even "lots" of non-roadster stuff. Gonna take the Conestoga Saturday. Looken for Stude parts bargans in the swap area. I've found a few Stude things there....Offy manifold was the best one.

SoCal54Champion
06-10-2005, 02:34 PM
You found an Offenhauser manifold for a Studebaker...unbelievable.
If you see a '54 passenger side grill shell/bars...really need. Mine's missing a nice chunk out of the shell.

Interesting Experience putting gas in the car. Pump would shut off every 6/10th's or so. Appears the fuel filler pipe is very flat, almost horizontal back to the tank and fuel backs up in the filler tube shutting off the pump. Is this normal?

"Oh That? It's a STUDEBAKER!!"

Roscomacaw
06-10-2005, 07:43 PM
Your refueling trouble is not "normal". There might be a kink in the hose that connects the filler pipe to the tank. But it oughta fill pretty easily and fast.[:I]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

rockne10
06-10-2005, 07:53 PM
Not normal. If the filler neck hose has flattened, it is either soft and deteriorated or someone has replaced the original with a piece of straight fuel hose. The original had a slight bend in it and if you try to make a straight piece fit between the neck and the tank, it's gonna kink.

Mike Van Veghten
06-11-2005, 12:56 AM
Dave,

Yea, got two of'em. They're made from earlier (53/54) V-8 manifolds that had smaller runners.
I called Extrude Hone....$600+ to open it up !!! I may build my own manifold !

From the factory....the filler tube has a kink in it. At least my Conestoga does. The angle of the filler tube...up over the frame to the tank she goes. Where the rubber section goes over the frame to the tank, it ends up with a nice kink in it. Although theres a small notch in the frame...it's not big enough. You might just head to the local parts store and get a hunk of fuel line...I think its 2.00" dia., or near that dia. Actually I think I may have some, I'll let you know.

SoCal54Champion
06-13-2005, 12:52 AM
Ok..
So I get under the rear and reach up to run my hand along the filler hose looking for the kink.
No kink found but the top of the hose near the tank feels collapsed into itself about 30% and has the consistancy of marshmellow. Seems like if I tried I could push my finger through the hose with very little effort.
Ummmm...today's gas eating yesterday's rubber I'd guess.
Off to FLAPS I go this week. :(

"Oh That? It's a STUDEBAKER!!"

DilloCrafter
09-25-2005, 11:46 PM
jcstude wrote:
quote:Another consideration when dealing with the newly reformulated fuels is the way it reacts to soft parts in your fuel system. If you have the stock fuel pump, the internal parts may break down over time unless it has been freshened up with a rebuild kit. Fuel pumps/pump kits are relatively inexpensive when compared to a tow charge from the middle of the San Joaqin Valley. At the other end of the fuel system is the fuel quantity sender float. The OEM float is made of cork and coated with shellac. If you start seeing brown sediment in your fuel pump bowl you may want to pull the sender and dip the cork in shellac to keep it from breaking down further.

But, since these new fuels have alcohol in them, and alcohol is the solvent used to "cut" shellac, shouldn't we use something else to coat the corks with, that is impervious to all the fuel ingredients?

And do I need new cork floats if I suspect mine has been "gasohol-logged" for some time, or should I let it dry, then coat it with polyurethane or something?

Finally, if the resistance in the fuel sending unit varies from 0-93 ohms, does anyone know where I can get new cork floats without having to replace an otherwise perfectly good sending unit?

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup

Stude4x4
09-26-2005, 06:26 PM
What type of fuel should I use with my turbocharged 289. I don't drive it much except when I pull my gooseneck trailer. 91 octane is not enough. Octane booster is not enough. I put water injection on it but it still doesn't help too much. I had trouble with my turbo pinging. It doesn't really ping since the water injection but it detonates instead. What do I do?
Jake