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cruisin couple
06-06-2005, 10:03 PM
Hi! I have tried to purchase a new fuel pump. I went to Napa Auto. They told me that Studebaker was no longer listed in their books. Mine is a 58 Packard Hawk with a 289 V8. Would any one know if there is an interchange of another pump or what can be used?? Thanks,

GTtim
06-06-2005, 10:45 PM
I see that Studebaker International http://www.studebaker-intl.com/ has them in the catalogue for $80. That seems fair to me. You might also try http://www.fairbornstudebaker.com/ . http://www.myersstudebaker.com/ is another source that I use frequently that will have what you need. Those are the three places I would buy from for this item. It's nice to get the right one the first time. One of them should be able to have at your door in a couple days.
Tim K.

studeclunker
06-07-2005, 12:38 AM
Dave Thibeault claims to have new fuel pumps available for 1955-64 V8s. They are listed in the PARTS & ACCESSORIES FOR SALE section of April's Turning Wheels page 52 just above the C-cab announcement ad.;)

'58, that's the shark nose is'nt it? Neat car![8D]

I almost forgot,[:I] the price is $45 plus shipping.

DAVE THIBEAULT
13 Nick Lane, Maynard MA 01754
978-897-3158

Lotsa Larks!
Studeclunker
A.K.A: out2lunch

laughinlark
06-07-2005, 11:41 AM
I run a Napa fuel pump on my 289's. Just bought one there last month. The Napa # is M2211.

Laughinlark

Roscomacaw
06-07-2005, 01:04 PM
Yup M2211 And if they LOOK hard enough, they'll find that they DO have it listed ----- for a Stude TRUCK![8] But of course, no dimwit in a modern auto parts store could tell you if a Stude truck had an engine anything like what was in a Stude car.[xx(]
BTW, these are NEW pumps - not rebuilts. But that doesn't mean they're of great quality. Usually, in short order, they start leaking engine oil.:( They DO work tho.[:o)]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

cruisin couple
06-07-2005, 07:52 PM
Hello&Thank you for the help on the fuel pump! So the Studebaker truck fuel pump is the same as the car? My napa store here in Portland Maine,found the listing on the Stude Truck from his supplier?? They located one in Tennesee. You said that they leak oil? is this a lot or is it bearable??. Is this fellow in Massachusetts with the new fuel pump have the same ones that Napa can get?Does any one know? Thanks for all your help once again, Your SouthBend friend in Maine

Sircocky
06-07-2005, 08:00 PM
Hi I have a new fewl pump in my hand for 259cu bought it from CarQest #4227 $45
Jack

cruisin couple
06-07-2005, 08:10 PM
Sir Cocky-- Thanks!! is the 259 V8 the same as the 289 pump? Do they have the glass sediment bowl? Thanks!! What was the cost at Car Quest? Frank

JDP
06-07-2005, 08:39 PM
If he has a supercharged car, it's a special pump.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
55 Speedster
50 2R 10 truck

cruisin couple
06-07-2005, 08:58 PM
I saw a reply to my question--Yes my car has a super charger-- Will the regular fuel pump not work? and is the 259 V8 fuel pump The same as the 289 Thanks

52hawk
06-07-2005, 09:07 PM
In defense of parts store 'dimwits'-I've bought parts for my 61 Hawk at CarQuest,AutoZone,and NAPA..Seems the problem is the counter person has to have patience to lug out the old paper books,sometimes 'Stude parts are not on the 'puter. I think almost any modern auto parts store can sell you common 'hardparts'-brake shoes,fuel pumps,wheel cylinders,tie rod ends,u-joints,etc.Most of these parts are still produced,as they fit other cars,[and trucks]not just Studes.
The trick is to find an experienced counter person with the patience or the interest to help you.If he rolls his eyes when you say 'Studebaker'-you got the wrong guy! If his eyes light up,he's ready for the challenge of helping you find your parts


not golden hawk,not silver hawk,just hawk.

GTtim
06-07-2005, 09:35 PM
If you have a supercharged Hawk it takes a special pump. Save yourself a lot of greif and get a pump from one of the suppliers that advertises in TW. At least these people are likely to know which pump you need.
Tim K.

Roscomacaw
06-08-2005, 12:29 AM
Yeah, the supercharged cars use a higher output pump. My bad for not thinking about the Pack Hawk being supercharged.
Now - to your earlier question, 259-289, the fuel pump's the same. 232s used a different style of pump.
There's a Mopar fuel pump available that'll work on the supercharged cars if you heat and bend the actuator arm a bit.
You're NOT going to find a new fuel pump with a glass bowl - period. Even if you send your old one to be "rebuilt", it'll likely come back with a metal bowl installed:( It's a safety issue. I personally think it's dumb, but that's the way it is.[V]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

JDP
06-08-2005, 10:14 AM
Bob
It's a bit more complicated than that. The Mopar pump will replace the R2 supercharged pump by bending the arm and adding a fitting for the supercharger, but will not fit the Packard Hawk. The R2 Hawks have a modified left frame motor mount to clear the larger late pump. The factory just put the standard frame mount in a jig and beat the crap out of it for R2 GT's.

The 57-58 pumps are smaller, but have the supercharger fitting that allows blower pressure on top.


Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
55 Speedster
50 2R 10 truck

N8N
06-08-2005, 10:25 AM
JDP, the pump I just took off of my car should work for him (it's in your garage) but it was blowing oil, probably needs a new stem seal (part of the diaphragm.) I believe it is a new production 'repro' pump as it looks just like the one I just got from Phil Harris other than the upper casting (sadly, I don't have a blower on my car...)

Alternately I'd just call Phil and see if he has some more...

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Roscomacaw
06-08-2005, 11:26 AM
Did all the McCullough-fitted cars have a "booster" pump back by the tank?[?]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Sonny
06-08-2005, 01:14 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Did all the McCullough-fitted cars have a "booster" pump back by the tank?[?]

None of the McCulloch equipped cars had a booster pump back at the tank. The vacuum booster line on the top of the fuel pump turns the regular fuel pump into a dual action style pump.

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

N8N
06-08-2005, 01:16 PM
I remember borrowing JP's service letters a while back just to flip through them... ISTR one regarding the installation of a Stewart-Warner electric pump to help with a fuel starvation problem on blown cars. Unfortunately I don't have them in my posession any more, and I didn't bother to photocopy them as I thought there was some project going on to scan them in and release them on CD...

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

studegary
06-08-2005, 01:24 PM
AFAIK, no 1957-1958 Studebaker cars had booster pumps in the rear (originally). I do remember that hard driven/sustained high rpm running in 1957-1958 supercharged cars did cause fuel starvation. After trying everything else, an electric fuel pump mounted in the rear always cured the fuel starvation problem. Then a 1958 Packard Hawk would run about 85 mph in passing gear for a distance (been there, done that <G>). Nate, I was not aware of that Service Letter. Was that for 1957-1958 and/or 1963/1964? I came up with that solution on my own.

jcstude
06-08-2005, 02:13 PM
OK, why do you need a new pump? Perhaps you could just get a kit to replace any leaking seals, bad diaphragm, etc. You could take your pump to the store have the counter guy get one for a Chevy, Ford, or Chrysler of the same vintage and, by visual inspection, see which one matches yours except for the actuating arm. Buy the kit, install the new components, reinstall your pump and you're done. I have a modified car, so I removed my mechanical pump and use an electric. Probably picked up 1/2 hp in the deal!

Lew in Escondido, CA

N8N
06-08-2005, 03:32 PM
Gary, IIRC it was for the 57-58 cars, but I really honestly don't remember. I hope I'm not smoking the crack again, but I don't have the ability to verify that.

Whatever happened to the service letter CD project anyway? This isn't the first time I wish I'd just paid the $$$ to have them copied while I had them in my posession so I'd have my own set. I actually had spoken to the firm that does our printing at work to investigate the possibility of them doing it as a "fill in" project (they would have had to lay each sheet down individually; they looked fragile enough I didn't trust them to an autofeeder, and they didn't belong to me) but I figured I'd rather wait and support our Stude people.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

N8N
06-08-2005, 03:35 PM
Oh yeah, forgot to mention, you probably can get a rebuild kit with a new diaphragm and check valves for your existing pump; I haven't rebuilt the exact pump we're talking about but I have rebuilt several R1/R2 pumps myself, it ain't rocket science. I have to admit to being partial to keeping things original; makes servicing easier in the future. Only thing to keep in mind is insist on a new production rebuild kit if available, the new ones are made with Buna-N rubber which is much more resistant to breaking down due to modern gasoline than the old rubber parts.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

cruisin couple
06-08-2005, 09:18 PM
Hi Everyone!! Thanks for all this information!! It does have me confused??? What is meant by the super charged fuel pump having a fitting on top for blower pressure? My old pump does have a fitting,but is capped with a plug. I found a fuel pump at car quest,as suggested,Thanks!! It was a good part # and it was for Stude,V8,289. Will it work? Some one said get a rebuild kit and rebuild the old one? Please let me know what you feel. I don't race this car and I just drive it around localy and to cruise nights. Will the stock pump I've found hold up and work with the super charger? Thanks Frank

Roscomacaw
06-08-2005, 11:17 PM
Frank, of course, that pump will work. And my gut feeling is that given how you say you drive the car - you'll not see a problem anyway. If you've been happy with the way it's performed in the past (with that pressure return line not employed - you'll probably do just fine.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Mike
06-09-2005, 02:31 AM
There's a lot of good info at:
http://www.vs57.com/ . Look under "Tech Ref", "Installation", Fuel Pump Mods".
From that site:
Studebaker and Packard used a Carter mechanical pump as well, the M2623S. This had an uprated diaphragm spring compared to the standard M2573S used on unsupercharged Packards, and had a static pressure of 6 7 psi compared to the standard 3 to 5 psi. Boost referencing was also used in order to increase the pump output pressure in line with the boost pressure.
The #'s mentioned are stamped into the edge of the fuel pump mounting flange.
You can buy a rebuild kit, or have your pump rebuilt, at:
http://www.then-now.com/The_Cellar/cellar.htm .
Mike M.

N8N
06-09-2005, 05:19 AM
but hook up that boost reference line anyway! someone may actually get into the throttle some day and few things are sadder than a supercharged car running lean and melting stuff.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

JDP
06-09-2005, 11:02 AM
A tank mounted electric pump was offered, but not standard. (The kit part numbers is in a service letter.) BTW, if anyone knows who has all my service letters, let me know. I loaned them out for a Internet Club project and never got them back.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
55 Speedster
50 2R 10 truck

cruisin couple
06-09-2005, 08:45 PM
Hi Every one!! Gee Whiz!!:D I thank you so much for all your help!! Your a great bunch of folks!!! I picked up the fuel pump today from Car Quest#4227 It looks identical to my two pumps. I noticed where that cappedplug is ,appears to be a small line,5/16?? On the new pump it is just a flat area,Can this be drilled,threaded,and line from super charger placed in it,or should I just leave it alone and drive her--- Thanks, Frankie & His Hawk [[8D]

Sonny
06-10-2005, 03:12 AM
quote:Originally posted by cruisin couple

Hi Every one!! Gee Whiz!!:D I thank you so much for all your help!! Your a great bunch of folks!!! I picked up the fuel pump today from Car Quest#4227 It looks identical to my two pumps. I noticed where that cappedplug is ,appears to be a small line,5/16?? On the new pump it is just a flat area,Can this be drilled,threaded,and line from super charger placed in it,or should I just leave it alone and drive her--- Thanks, Frankie & His Hawk [[8D]


Yes, if you can get the new fuel pump apart, the top of your new pump should be drilled, tapped and the line should be connected, (IF you plan on using the supercharger). I would not use the supercharger, (in stock configuration), with that line disconnected, period.

You must maintain an adequate supply of fuel to the engine under boost. If you do not, the engine will definitely experience detonation. As you probably already know, detonation will damage an engine very quickly.

The best remedy to assure an adequate supply of fuel, (while allowing for removal of the mechanical fuel pump and that line), would be installing an electric fuel pump somewhere in the rear of the car, as close to the tank as you can get it. You can wire the pump through an electrical oil pressure switch, (with a spring loaded bypass switch mounted somewhere on/under the dash for priming), to assure that the pump shuts off in an emergency.

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

studegary
06-10-2005, 01:22 PM
John/JDP, I thought that the guy that was active on the newsgroup and lived in south Florida and then moved to SC had your Service Letters. I can picture him and his Champ, but his name doesn't come to me at the moment. I think that you will know who I mean.

Transtar60
06-10-2005, 06:41 PM
JDP

I know the guys Champ was named "Harvey" but his name escapes me now.
Seems like someone in Louisiana and somebody in NC had parts of it too.

Roscomacaw
06-10-2005, 06:46 PM
Mickey Prankas.;)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

StudebakerGeorge
06-11-2005, 06:27 AM
First (maybe second) time I have used this forum, but a few of you all may recognize me...the fuel pump issues sucked me right in as I have been groaning about the quality of the "new" pumps for a while now. In a nutshell, the quality is TERRIBLE and they start leaking either oil or fuel almost immedialtely. I have been through a bunch in the past few years and although I am not in favor of electrics, I may give up (at least for now) on the mechanical ones. I have been begging one of our more active "tinkerers" (are you listening, Jeffy?)to build an adapter plate to use a modern and easy to get pump but he is busy with other projects. Maybe someone else can take on that idea. As it is now, I travel with an extra pump and check it frequently to see if it's acting up.

StudebakerGeorge

DEEPNHOCK
06-11-2005, 06:52 AM
Ray Ficthorn has all the material...
Everybody that was a part of this project sent (dumped) it on Ray's lap ;). I am sure that Ray would love to 'enlist' your youth and energy to help/finish this worthwhile project off.
Jeff[8D]

Whatever happened to the service letter CD project anyway? This isn't the first time I wish I'd just paid the $$$ to have them copied while I had them in my posession so I'd have my own set. I actually had spoken to the firm that does our printing at work to investigate the possibility of them doing it as a "fill in" project (they would have had to lay each sheet down individually; they looked fragile enough I didn't trust them to an autofeeder, and they didn't belong to me) but I figured I'd rather wait and support our Stude people.
nate


[quote]Originally posted by N8N

Gary, IIRC it was for the 57-58 cars, but I really honestly don't remember. I hope I'm not smoking the crack again, but I don't have the ability to verify that.



DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

DEEPNHOCK
06-11-2005, 06:59 AM
The 'extra' fitting on top of the diaphragm is to bring the atmospheric pressure on top of the diaphragm up to the same pressure as inside the fuel bowl. Otherwise the boost pressure could/would push the gas backwards in the pump. Having sold a ton of new Carter fuel pumps for Stude's back in the seventies, I remember looking hard at the pumps and noting that the only difference in the (Carter) fuel pumps was the drilling and tapping of the upper housing for the boost line. Since we are only talking about 5-6 psi, I wonder if a regular fuel pump could be drilled and tapped and put into service. Sure would make some lives a bit easier....
Jeff[8D]





quote:Originally posted by cruisin couple

Hi Everyone!! Thanks for all this information!! It does have me confused??? What is meant by the super charged fuel pump having a fitting on top for blower pressure? My old pump does have a fitting,but is capped with a plug. I found a fuel pump at car quest,as suggested,Thanks!! It was a good part # and it was for Stude,V8,289. Will it work? Some one said get a rebuild kit and rebuild the old one? Please let me know what you feel. I don't race this car and I just drive it around localy and to cruise nights. Will the stock pump I've found hold up and work with the super charger? Thanks Frank


DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

cruisin couple
06-11-2005, 11:28 AM
Hi Every One!! Gee!! This fuel pump problem sure has raised a lot of interest[B)] Its kind of dis-heartning hearing that even the new fuel pumps that you buy,leak oil and fuel almost immediatly:( I purchased one from Car Quest,40.00 and Napa had the one that stated it was for Stude Truck,289,Same price. Both of these pumps looked identical,They both had that reman look, The box said,made in USA but made in Canada was stamped all over the fuel pump[?] Just wondering on any comments or any more ideas. A 10 minute job that should end problems seems like a real headache:( Thanks again For all your help and thoughts[8D] Frankie & His Hungry Hawk

Sonny
06-11-2005, 12:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

<Snip some good stuff> I wonder if a regular fuel pump could be drilled and tapped and put into service. Sure would make some lives a bit easier....
Jeff[8D]
DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Express
'37 Coupe Express Trailer
'61 Hawk
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock


There shouldn't be any problem drilling and tapping a "regular" fuel pump for the fitting. It would be easier if the pump had the "pad", but I'm thinkin' if you stayed a little higher on the upper pump housing, (so the fitting couldn't interfere inside), it'd be a piece-o-cake.

Only thing is, that's a lot of work for something that really doesn't work very well on it's best day. It's just a lot easier and works a lot better with an electric pump, especially if you spring for a pump that allows you to set the pressure.

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com