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studeclunker
05-19-2005, 07:25 PM
I remember reading on this forum about the virtues of diesel motor oil. Somewhere I think someone recomended it. Can anyone illuminate me? Which oil is the best for these old studes? Now, I realize this is a completely subjective question/answer thing.[:I] Still, I want to get the most reliable performance out of my aged lil' Larks.;)
Currently my cars all have Quakerstate 10W/40. I've used this for years with good results.:)

Lotsa Larks!
Studeclunker
A.K.A: out2lunch

JDP
05-19-2005, 10:12 PM
N8 taught me to use the diesel oil, lots of detergents. It'll clean up a old Studebaker engine in a few oil changes.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
64 R2 4 speed Challenger (Plain Wrapper)
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk
55 Speedster
50 2R 10 truck

Transtar60
05-19-2005, 10:31 PM
I use 15W40 Rotella in all my Stude engines except I used the 30wt in a 1961 OHV six. Makes it easy for my as both my diesel tractors and my diesel truck use the same oil. About $350 for a 55 gal drum. I usually buy the 5 gal buckets tho at about $32 a bucket.

Sonny
05-19-2005, 10:51 PM
quote:Originally posted by studeclunker

I remember reading on this forum about the virtues of diesel motor oil. Somewhere I think someone recomended it. Can anyone illuminate me? Which oil is the best for these old studes? Now, I realize this is a completely subjective question/answer thing.[:I] Still, I want to get the most reliable performance out of my aged lil' Larks.;)
Currently my cars all have Quakerstate 10W/40. I've used this for years with good results.:)

Lotsa Larks!
Studeclunker
A.K.A: out2lunch


I think that you're exactly right, like most things, which product is better is very subjective, unless you're faced with irrefutable evidence, scientific or otherwise. Lemme suggest that you use the diesel oil, don't mix brands, but pick a good, quality brand and try it for yourself. That's how I was convinced. You couldn't get me to use anything but Castrol, but after I got my first diesel truck, saw what diesel oil did for it, (not only a convenience factor), every fuel powered machine that I own has diesel oil in it! [^]

Your call, I'd never try to steer a fella wrong on something I think is so important, but the stuff is awesome.



Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

studeclunker
05-20-2005, 02:09 AM
Thanks again all!!:):D I thought I saw this before and was'nt able to locate it again.[:I] The guy at the NAPA store tried to talk me out of the diesel type oil.:( I told him I would double check with you guys and get back with him.

Lotsa Larks!
Studeclunker
A.K.A: out2lunch

Tom B
05-20-2005, 01:41 PM
It seems that there are zinc compounds present in Diesel grade oil that if passed through a catalytic converter would plug it up, but since our Studebakers don't have converters, there's no problem, and these zinc compounds prevent long term rust from forming.

Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'60 Lark VI

N8N
05-20-2005, 02:55 PM
The nice thing about the Diesel oil is not only is it high detergent but it's CHEAP. as in cheaper than regular gasoline-rated dino squeezins. That should put a smile on any frugal Stude lover's face!

There's only two instances where I won't use Rotella - 1) in a newer car that's either forced-inducted or has a very expensive engine - there I use Mobil 1. 2) older aircooled VW motors I have been told use a metering orifice for the oil cooler that's "tuned" for straight 30 weight.

I dunno about the catalytic converter thing; last daily driver I had that wasn't "nice" enough to run Mobil 1 in was my old Scirocco; the catcon exited through the tailpipe about a year after I started driving it, but that was at >200K miles so I have no idea if the Rotella contributed to its demise or not. It still passed emissions with flying colors without it so I never bothered to replace it.

Now current theory on oil says that if you're using a quality oil you actually get the best flow and therefore the best protection with the *thinnest* oil that you can safely run (without losing flow to the valvetrain and/or pressure dropping below minimum spec) but in an older engine like a Stude the 15W40 doesn't bother me all that much.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

raprice
05-20-2005, 08:42 PM
As for me, I'm not convinced that I should use diesel oil in my '59 Lark VI. I use Castroll 20W-50 and am pleased with it.
Rog

wagone
05-20-2005, 09:00 PM
My two cents may not be worth much, but here it is. I had never heard of these combination diesel and gasoline oils until recently. I've not used any but I'm tempted. What I do know is that my recently completely rebuilt (and bored, crank turned, etc.) 289 R2 engine still burned serious amounts of 30 weight oil. So this spring I shifted to Castrol 20W-50 and the oil consumption appears to be vastly improved. Maybe it is concidence and the rings have just sealed, but I feel pretty good about the 20W-50 Castrol and will probably continue to use it unless I switch to the diesel type. But I am reluctant to change away from the Castrol for obvious reasons. Until I put more miles on the Avanti this spring I can't be sure about the improved oil mileage, but right now it looks like 450 miles to a quart on the 30 weight up to perhaps 1200-1300 miles on the Castrol. Got my fingers crossed.
Wagone

studeclunker
05-20-2005, 11:18 PM
I don't know about the diesel oils, but according to the maintenence book using 50wt oil is not a good idea. I'll have to look elsewhere for oil apparently, because at NAPA the diesel oils are about 10 to 15 percent more expensive than regular.[V] I [b]hate the place, but... maybe W... W.... WWWWalmart will carry it less expensively.[xx(] It might be better to check a few other places first.;)

Lotsa Larks!
Studeclunker
A.K.A: out2lunch

curt
05-21-2005, 08:17 AM
Wagone, your oil consuption is interesting. I have been into Kaisers for years. Those engine could burn oil after sitting for the winter. A good run of 70 mph on the interestate would reseat the rings and the oil consuption would stop, no oil weight change just reseat the rings with a high speed run .

Rekabeduts
05-21-2005, 10:06 AM
I used to use Castrol 20W-50 for a bout 2 years in my GT Hawk, then switched to Rotella 15W-40 a couple of months ago. One thing I noticed is the car runs a little rougher sometimes at idle or for a few minutes after a cold start (not that cold...Florida). I know the advantage to 20W-50 is that it leaves a coating that helps with start-ups, but it is harder on valves (I've heard only use it with solid lifters). Would it be a good idea (or bad) to mix half a quart of 20W-50 in with the Rotella, or maybe use a small amount of STP?

Hank

Sonny
05-21-2005, 10:56 AM
quote:Originally posted by Rekabeduts

I used to use Castrol 20W-50 for a bout 2 years in my GT Hawk, then switched to Rotella 15W-40 a couple of months ago. One thing I noticed is the car runs a little rougher sometimes at idle or for a few minutes after a cold start (not that cold...Florida). I know the advantage to 20W-50 is that it leaves a coating that helps with start-ups, but it is harder on valves (I've heard only use it with solid lifters). Would it be a good idea (or bad) to mix half a quart of 20W-50 in with the Rotella, or maybe use a small amount of STP?

Hank


You've made an interesting observation Hank. I don't think that I've ever noticed a rough idle at cold start in anything using diesel oils. Mebbe it's the 15 weight property that's responsible. I am pretty sure that all modern oils leave a coating on everything, (depending of course, on how long they've been sitting). I would avoid mixing oils, but mebbe you could use a heavier weight diesel, or a little STP or some other good brand similar to STP, (even a synthetic additive), that would help the long sitting periods.

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

studeclunker
05-21-2005, 03:12 PM
Studebaker did recomend STP.;) In fact, one of my cars had the original breathers on the valve covers![8D] The stickers (covered in grime) said "Note: Break - in oil contains STP." also "RECOMMEND ADD ONE (1) PINT OF STP at each oil change!" This was interspersed with the Studebaker S-ball, or S-in-a-circle, whatever. So there you have it:D STP seems to be recommended by the manufacturer.;) It's the corporate symbol that validates it to me. and the fact that I am the second owner of this car. I mentioned this little detail to the original owner and she said that the breathers had never been changed.

By the way, my mechanic got a really big kick out of those breathers. He went to a great deal of effort to clean them up and even repair/reglue the stickers. And yes, he added STP.

Lotsa Larks!
Studeclunker
A.K.A: out2lunch

curt
05-21-2005, 03:56 PM
Did Studebaker have an interest in sTP? Like own STP?????

Transtar60
05-21-2005, 04:45 PM
quote:Originally posted by studeclunker

I don't know about the diesel oils, but according to the maintenence book using 50wt oil is not a good idea. I'll have to look elsewhere for oil apparently, because at NAPA the diesel oils are about 10 to 15 percent more expensive than regular.[V] I [b]hate the place, but... maybe W... W.... WWWWalmart will carry it less expensively.[xx(] It might be better to check a few other places first.;)

Lotsa Larks!
Studeclunker
A.K.A: out2lunch



Best place to buy Rotella is a Farm store. Like Tractor Supply Co. or Orschelyns(sp??). They usually beat Wallyworld pricewise.

raprice
05-21-2005, 05:38 PM
Curt,
Yes indeed!! Studebaker owned STP. In fact Andy Granatelli was their spokesman. He was the original owner of STP, to my knowledge.
As a matter of fact, toward the end of Studebaker, the STP division was very profitable to the corporation.
Rog

studeclunker
05-21-2005, 08:29 PM
It's really a statement to the nature of American business that the company had so many profitable subsidiaries and could'nt be kept alive.[V] In fact, the rumor is that the subsidiaries killed off the parent as it was decided to ditch auto manufacturing.[:0] A form of patricide.;) I haven't verified my facts on this. It's just what I heard. How American; cutthroat to the core.[}:)] Yet we can take comfort in that the subsidiaries that survive today are a small part of the parent. So I guess what I'm trying to say is that Studebaker isn't entirely dead. Just metamorphised.;)

You know, I just remembered seeing one of Andy's ads back in the 60's. In fact, he was driving a stude. The reason the car came to mind was my mother's comment;" He'd get there faster if he was'nt driving one of those Studeclunkers!" Mom hated Studebakers.

Lotsa Larks!
Studeclunker
A.K.A: out2lunch

whacker
05-21-2005, 08:30 PM
I have a TV commercial on tape somewhere that says STP stands for Studebaker Tested Products.

studeclunker
05-21-2005, 08:34 PM
Gee... and I grew up thinking it was; Sticky Toilet Paper!:D:D:D:D:D

Lotsa Larks!
Studeclunker
A.K.A: out2lunch

raprice
05-23-2005, 05:19 PM
Reading what Studeclunker said, the subsidiaries of Studebaker were successful. That's very true. It's my understanding that the board of directors' mandate was to get out of the car business, even though the move to Hamilton, Ontario was kind of successful. I think that Studebaker was on the right track and may have even turned a profit from their Canadian operation. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Rog

N8N
05-23-2005, 05:33 PM
I may be extrapolating a bit too much here, but from a modern-day perspective it probably made sense for Stude to get out of the automobile business when they did. At least by 1966 for sure the writing was already on the wall, more and more safety and emissions regulations were going to be forced on the mfgrs. and there would be definite R&D costs associated with those that on a per unit basis would be far more costly for a small volume mfgr. than for a large volume mfgr. Sadly it's hard to argue with their decision.

Honestly, in retrospect, isn't it better to have Studes as they were and not to have to deal with the Stude equivalent of, say, big block Chevys putting out less than 200 HP or Chrysler's "lean burn" system? Let's be honest, by 1972 the fun was over and didn't come back for quite a while. AMC obviously didn't make it, and they were probably better positioned to put up a good fight as their product line included superior six and V-8 engines while at the end Studebaker was buying their engines from McKinnon. Sad but true.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

studeclunker
05-24-2005, 08:45 AM
Perhaps you're right N8N. Still, the company was going in the right direction with thier cars. I don't mean the stupid styling decisions. Size and economy were Studebaker's strength. It's a pity the company did'nt have a chance to try though. The biggest problem was R & D. There is an old worn out adage; "To make money one must spend it." Money was there in the coporate structure that made up Studebaker and it's associates. They just did'nt want to spend it on a car company.

The emission standards were focused on the larger cars. Studes were considered economy cars. They would'nt have been effected till the late 70's if the company was careful. Moving back to sixes and maybe some fours would have pushed the emission problems till the very late 70's and early 80's. Performance would have been a problem. But what performed with a NOX device on it? Does anyone remember those?

Yes, the Lark could have been redesigned to be yet smaller. I seem to recall that by 1974 a smaller lark with a smaller motor (perhaps that OD tranny) would have sold like hotcakes!! What would I envision a studebaker to look like now? Probably a lot like what Chrysler is turning out. They would be plastic crapmobiles like everyone else is turning out. With a wee bit more competition, the current cars might be somewhat better though.

Lotsa Larks!
Studeclunker
A.K.A: out2lunch