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View Full Version : oil ,timing, gas and boost



charley norton
05-05-2005, 11:00 PM
Can I run 20w50 full synthetic in my R2? I'm hearing to run everything from straight 30w to diesel rated oil. Its an original 32000 mile engine and i don't want to screw it up, but would think synthetic would be good.
My timing is centrifical advance 15 deg. and about the same with the vacuum advance. I think I know what to do with the centrifical, but how do I adjust the vacuum. I'd like to see 18 deg. as the manual suggests.
This leads to my next problem-pinging. Not knowing these engines, which are very different, I did something very stupid. I had a new supercharger built(by Paxton)from my old case and had the impellor modified to boost 10-12lbs. This would of been great except I'm having to retard my timing so much that I think I'm making less power than if I had it built stock. And I recon if I am able to get my timing advance up to spec., this will only make my problem worse.
Thats what brought me yesterday to ask if anyone knew of a innercooler setup available for the R2. I understand cooler air does wonders for this kind of problem. I think I am overanalizing and hope one of you guys will give me the easy answer.

I'm running pump gas (93octane)with octane booster and with timing brought down4-5 deg.s it does O.K. By the way, I hate O.K.
Thanks Sonny for your imput, its good to know my wheels won't fall off !!


charley norton

Sonny
05-06-2005, 01:21 AM
You're very welcome Charley. As for the pinging in the R2, are you running the stock pistons and stock, (not shaved), heads? You don't want to increase the compression ratio past what the factory ratio was. Also, hopefully you're running the engine REAL rich. When that blower kicks in, (especially with the extra boost), it needs a lot more fuel than a standard carbed engine, if you don't have extra fuel you get ping. The bad news is that it pings because it's running way too lean. The lean condition can wreck an engine in short order. Check that first Charley.

I run multi-viscosity diesel in everything I own and always change it when it's supposed to be changed. I'll let ya pull a valve cover off one of my vehicles, you can eat off the inside. Your call, but you're gonna hear kudos for every oil sold. I think synthetic would be fine too.

To adjust the vacuum advance, IF it's adjustable, find an allen wrench that's the right size and long enough to go into the hole where the vacuum line connects to the advance. You'll have to experiment, but usually clockwise increases the crackng pressure.

Hope this helps!

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Dan White
05-06-2005, 07:26 PM
Charley, Spearco makes about any kind and size of intercooler (not innercooler) you could want (http://www.turboneticsinc.com/intercoolers.html). You can go with air-to-air or air-to-liquid. I bought a Vortec air-to-liquid on ebay a couple of years ago for my Stude Turbo Truck project (still in process). An air-to-liquid is much more compact and more efficient than an air-to-air, but much more expensive. The old Buick Grand Nationals used the air-to-air type quite effectively, and the new supercharged V8 Jags use an air-to-liquid. The other thing you can try is water injection which will also lower the charge temp and help reduce knock.

The only other thing you can to is go to an electronic ignition with a knock sensor that will automatically retard the spark when knock is detected.

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

charley norton
05-07-2005, 08:03 AM
I haven't looked into water injection but I remember hearing about it back in the seventies. I just don't hear about anyone actually using it. I don't want to hurt the value of the car by cutting into the fenderwheels, I would rather make modifications that could be reversed if needed or wanted. But then again, who would need to and who would want to? Other than the man I bought the car from, most folks around here never heard of an Avanti. At the Lineville Al. car show last year, I met one of the people who built Avantis' in Villa Rica Ga. He was really nice and wanted me to bring the car up to the plant for others to see. The next guy comes by and asked "Where'd you buy the kit and did you put it together yourself?"

charley norton

studeclunker
05-08-2005, 05:23 AM
Forgive me please for asking, why did you have the supercharger changed in the first place? Avantis go like a scalded monkey with the stock 'charger anyway.
Probably a stupid question, but I'm really puzzled.[:I]

Lotsa Larks!
Studeclunker
A.K.A: out2lunch

Mike
05-08-2005, 07:59 AM
If you are using the stock Prestolite distributor, have you taken the breaker plate apart and serviced the ball bearing? With the plate removed from the distributor, rotate the two riveted clips 90 degrees, clean and repack.
Make sure the ground wire, between the two halves doesn't restrict movement. I ran a new wire, through the housing, to a screw on the outside.
Don't push the moveable plate against the vacuum advance. It's easy to break off the pin on the breaker plate; or break the vacuum advance can loose from its bracket. Use a vacuum pistol to check when all vacuum advance is "in". You adjust that with washers under the spring, inside the vacuum advance can.
I use points that have their own pivot bushing, and use the pins on the breaker plate only as a locator, (Borg Warner).
Up and down movement, in the distributor shaft, actually changes timing; because the gear is spiral cut. Tight side , of the specs in the manual, is best.
One of the biggest complaints, about the Prestolite distributors, is that the laminated advance weights wear out the pivot pins. Chrysler, cast advance weights, with a bushing, were a popular sustitute.
My stock R2 doesn't ping, with 92 octane gas. It's supposed to have the stock jetting; and is very rich. Stude used high test gas as antiknock fluid!
I think the "high efficency" impeller produces more boost only at high speeds. There's probably less pressure most of the time.
I think a lot of R2's are getting too much manifold heat. The intake manifold gaskets are supposed to have a very restricted heat riser passage, on the left side. Often, standard, "wide open" gaskets have been substituted. Depending on where you live, you may even want to remove the heat riser valve. I did.
Mike M.

charley norton
05-08-2005, 07:59 AM
To Studeclunker
This Avanti is only the second one I've ever seen. The first was 35 years ago when I was 6 yrs old. Since then I have been mainly into mopar performance cars and for a few years, british built. In the year plus it took to get this car (long story), all I had to learn from was the old Turning Wheels magazines Terry (previous owner)gave me (I've just now found you guys). I got the high performance bug reading them. The car sat in a warehouse for 24 years and it was only a week before the supercharger came back from California that I got it running and drove it for the first time and realized how powerful it was. Hindsight is always 20/20


63 R2 Avanti

charley norton
05-08-2005, 08:39 AM
Mike
You got something there. I put breakerless in the dist. When I did, I also installed new weights and springs. I bought new posts for the weights but didn't install them. The old ones didn't seem worn and the new weights fit snug and moved freely.
I wished I would of known how to disassemble the breaker plate then because it had a lot of friction in it . I used wd 40 and turned it back and forth until it felt better. I'll be going back in to do it right thanks to you.
Your also dead on on the ground wire too. I wangled it around to get the most movement but still seemed in the way. I'll try that trick too.
As for the supercharger, I don't know. It really seems to have a lot of pressure even at an idle. I will definately be taking off the heat riser valve. I'll let you know how it works. Thanks, Thanks!!!
Charley

63 R2 Avanti

charley norton
05-08-2005, 08:54 AM
Mike
What lubricant did you use on the point breaker plate bearings and also, did you mount the ground wire on the clip screws or somewhere else??
Thanks
Charley

63 R2 Avanti

Mike
05-08-2005, 10:58 AM
I used wheel bearing grease, which is really too heavy. Next time it's out, I'll repack with white lithium multipurpose. The ball bearing is really a nice touch. I drilled my rivets out and replaced them with pop rivets, in the process of removing what was left of the original ground. It's really only necessary to turn the little clips, to take the breaker plates apart.
I ran the ground wire from the condenser screw, through the gromet along side the wire to the points, to one of the screws that hold the vacuum advance can on. It's long enough inside the distributor, to be flexible. The stock wire to the ignition switch is 16#. Certainly, don't go any heavier than that. Parts stores used to sell "distributor pigtail leads", which were fine strand and very flexible, with soft insulation. That would be better.
Where did you find the weights and posts for the advance?
At idle, that's vacuum on the gauge; if it's hooked up to the manifold. I only see boost with wide open throttle, if I dare to take my eyes off the road!
Your original question asked about oil. I've been using Shell Rotella 15 W 40. It's rated "CI & SI" for compression, (Diesel), and spark ignition engines. Recently I noticed they sell 10 W 30, too; and I may go back to that; since I could use it in my other vehicles, too.
Mike M.

charley norton
05-08-2005, 03:10 PM
I got the weights and posts from Dave Thiebolt. I have his number at work. Let me know if you need it.
On the boost thing, the guage on the dash that shows your vacuum. Before start up, mine reads slightly above zero. At start up, it goes to ten (to the right as you look at it). You could probably fly a kite above the bypass on the airbox. The bypass shuts off the second the throttle is applied and the guage moves up to about 15 or so.At a maintained 2500 rpms'(no load), It will go to 19 or just about pegged to the right. On the road at highway speeds, it stays with very little variation at 12. Now I may have this all wrong and instead of possitive pressure like I thought, I'm looking at vacuum and I have a problem with the supercharger or its components. However, the 10-12 lbs. of boost I referred to in my earlier message before didn't come from what I read on this guage, but from what Paxton said I should expect from it. The fact that they corresponded made me feel I was looking at possitive pressure.
What does your guage read?? Does this sound normal. I appreaciate you lettin me pick your brain.
Also, Sonny mentioned I wasn't rich enough. Yesterday I richened the air\fuel screws and found a noted improvement in upper rpms under load. I wonder if I need to go to bigger jets. Those screws are way out there. If so ,does anyone no what size I should use. It has the factory jets in it now.

63 R2 Avanti

Mike
05-08-2005, 04:52 PM
It's a combination vacuum/pressure gauge, connected to the manifold, after the carb. Vacuum is to the right of zero, with a scale marked at 10 and 20 inches of Mercury, ("IN HG"). Pressure is to the left of zero marked at 5 and 10 pounds per square inch, ("PSI"). There are early and late versions of the gauge; but I think the scale is the same.
It sounds like the supercharger is working like it should. I think I see about 5 pounds at 3000 RPM with the throttle wide open. It's almost always vacuum. The flapper valve, in my carb bonnet behaves like yours. Sometimes it starts bouncing at an idle; and you can hear it! I haven't experimented to see what the pressure is directly out of the supercharger. It would be interesting to connect a guage to a "T" at the fuel pump referance line, on the volute; and compare output pressure to yours, at different RPM.
I think the high efficency impeller was originally designed for Paxton's industrial air blowers; which run at a constant speed. The blades are cast in a spiral twist. I would expect it to produce more pressure only at high speeds. Craig Conley, at Paradise Wheels, rebuilds the older superchargers for Paxton. He probably made other changes, too. Did he recommend an external cooler for the supercharger fluid, or a smaller pulley?
There are marks on my vibration damper at two other places, as well as TDC. I think one is half way around. The other has been confused with TDC. As I remember, it's for checking cam timing and doesn't go all the way across the edge of the damper. Some folks have said the outside of the damper can shift, too.
There's some info about Avanti jetting at http://www.vs57.com/ ; and lots of other stuff about the supercharger.
Mike M.

charley norton
05-08-2005, 08:24 PM
Thanks so much Mike. you've been a huge help. I may get in touch with Craig just to make sure I'm O.K..

63 R2 Avanti

curt
05-11-2005, 08:55 PM
If you have too much Boost from the SC, could you put on a waste gate? My son had a variable waste gate on a Turbo Coup. He could turn the max boost up or down from the dash adjustment/switch.