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KevinSheen
03-14-2005, 01:33 PM
Help! I just bought a 1963 Champ pickup with a 345 ci engine. I drove it 800 miles this week from where I bought it at a dealer inDerby, KS to my home in Crowley, LA. I had no trouble on the trip, but this morning she wouldn't start. The battery is good, I have lights and gauges. I'm thinking ignition switch, coil or wiring. Does anyone have any part numbers or any other suggestions? Any help would be appreciated. Kevin

1963 Champ

Transtar60
03-14-2005, 04:25 PM
Is this the one with the automatic transmission? Could be the neutral safety switch or bad ground on starter solenoid switch.
BTW, the engine, if its a Studebaker, is either 259 or 289 cid V8.

Sometimes the ignition switch will rotate and break the wire going to the start terminal.

KevinSheen
03-14-2005, 05:32 PM
Thanks for the reply Transtar. The truck does have an auto tranny. The dealer told me that the guy he got it from told him that the engine was mfg'd by International and was a 345 ci.
Your diagnosis sounds reasonable and pretty much what I came up with as well. I'm waiting for an e-mail from one of the members of the Louisiana chapter of SDC who is supposedly a wizard when it comes to all things Studebaker. Thanks for your help and drive safe. Kevin

1963 Champ

mjeansonne
03-14-2005, 07:04 PM
Kevin;

I agree with Transtar... check those two items. Sometimes these old switches won't work exactly like theu're suppose to and you may have to wiggle them for the gauges to work, but hardly to get the truck started.

Incidently, is your truck blue and were you in the Alexandria-Natchitoches area Sunday afternoon around 5:30+/-? If so, that's one gorgeous truck you have!! I'm from the Alexandria area and have both a 1963 Champ that I'm converting to automatic and a 1962 Hawk. I work in Shreveport and that is where I was on my way to. Actually I live about 3 miles north of Boyce. Look forward to meeting you.

Let me know if I can be of assistance to you.

Laissez le bon temp roulez avec un Studebaker!!!

MDJ

KevinSheen
03-14-2005, 08:10 PM
That was me you saw. I bought the truck in Wichita, KS on Saturday afternoon. Spent the night in OK after having a blowout about 50 miles after I bought the thing. Passed Alec about 7 PM and was in Lafayette before nine.
The Champ is in pretty good shape, but will need some TLC of course. Some of the paint is chipped and/or peeling. I don't think it was a very good prep job.
I talked to Fred D. today about joining the local SDC. I'm waiting for an e-mail from him. Any how looking forward to meeting you as well. What do you think about the engine size being a 345 ci?
I know exactly where Boyce is. I drive an 18 wheeler (part time) full of propane to places like Herring gas in Trout.
Thanks for the info. I'm relieved to see that great minds think alike! Kevin

1963 Champ

mjeansonne
03-14-2005, 08:31 PM
As I said, thats one heck of a good looking truck you have. Of course, I'm partial to Champs. Mine is red. The engine blew a not long ago and I am in the process of also replacing the engine. Its a 259 cid V-8. In 1963 Studebaker only had two choices of V-8... 259 cid and 289 cid. Both were proprietary (built by Studebaker) and were not built by anyone else other than Studebaker! Yours is probably a 259. Standing in front of the engine, look down just to the right of the top radiator hose on the engine. There is a pad with a number preceded with a letter, either a 'P' or a 'V'. Depending on which letter precedes the numbers, will determine what size engine you have, 259 or 289. I will have to go downstairs to where my books are to tell you which letter equals what. My memory ain't what it used to be and I can't recall suddenly which is which!!

Incidently, my e-mail address is: mjeansonne@Sport.rr.com that's here in Shreveport where I work during the week. I go home on the weekend. I sometime go to Pine Prairie on the weekend for boudin, ponce and cracklin. Crowley ain't far. Sure would like to take a close up of your truck sometime.



Laisez le bon temps avec un Studebaker

KevinSheen
03-14-2005, 08:57 PM
Thanks again for the info. I was trying to figure out how to find out the size of the engine. I hope its not a replacement that's in there. I've got your e-mail address in my book now. Mine is kls1040@cox-internet.com. You are, of course welcome to come by if you're in the area and have a closeup gander at the truck. I'm on vacation for about another month. My regular job is merchant seaman so, when I leave I'm usually gone for 6 months or so. Then when I'm off I've usually got a couple months before going back to a ship. That's why I drive a truck when I'm off.
Looking forward to meeting you too. Kevin

1963 Champ

Transtar60
03-14-2005, 09:35 PM
Kevin and Mjeansonne.
Truck engines have their own numbering system.
If its a 259, the starting # for 1963 Standard duty 259 cid engines was 3E 18,901 If its a heavy duty 259, the number will start with "5E".
Standard duty 289's serial #'s started with 7E and heavy duty 289's with 6E .

The serial # ranges for trucks are listed on page No. VII of the parts manual. If you dont have a parts and shop manual yet, I highly recommend you get some from one of the vendors. They really make buying parts and working on the truck easier .

KevinSheen
03-14-2005, 10:15 PM
Thanks again Transtar. I don't have any manuals yet but I will be getting one in the near future. I am a novice at this, but I'm hooked. My poor wife thinks I've lost my mind! Thanks again for your help. Kevin

1963 Champ

Roscomacaw
03-15-2005, 10:25 AM
I can't imagine anyone going to the trouble to put a 345 in there, but I suppose anything's possible. From what I remember - if it's an International 345, it will have "International" embossed along the length of the valve cover. The Stude engines don't have their name embossed onto the valve covers. They MIGHT have a decal but it wouldn't be "factory" for a Champ to have any such decal. If there was a decal, it would be because some owner chose to put one on.
If the vavle covers are held on with 2 or 4 nuts down the center of the cover, it's likely a Stude engine.;)

Miscreant at large.

KevinSheen
03-15-2005, 12:02 PM
Thanks for the info Mr Biggs. The valve covers dont have any named on them. So that's a good sign. There is also no number embossed on it that I could find with just a cursory look. The only thing I've found so far is the firing order. I've got the truck in a local shop right now. Hopefully they can fix the ignition problem without too much difficulty. I'll then have a better look around to see if I can find any identifying marks. Thanks for the feedback.
BTW, my wife and I really like your signature. I was thinking of changing mine to reprobate. Kevin Sheen
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

I can't imagine anyone going to the trouble to put a 345 in there, but I suppose anything's possible. From what I remember - if it's an International 345, it will have "International" embossed along the length of the valve cover. The Stude engines don't have their name embossed onto the valve covers. They MIGHT have a decal but it wouldn't be "factory" for a Champ to have any such decal. If there was a decal, it would be because some owner chose to put one on.
If the vavle covers are held on with 2 or 4 nuts down the center of the cover, it's likely a Stude engine.;)

Miscreant at large.


1963 Champ

Roscomacaw
03-15-2005, 12:33 PM
Kev,

The engine serial# (which should shed light on what displacement it is and what it might have originated in - car or truck) is stamped (not "embossed" or "cast") onto a flat area, right at the front of the engine block itself. Right where the driver's side cylinder head meets the front top surface of the block - scrape away any grunge there and look for a stamped number. Likely it starts with 3E, 5E, 6E or 7E if it started life in a truck. If it started life in a car, a V or a P would likely be the first digit.[:I]
They're not BIG digits. They're only about 3/16ths an inch tall if that much.:D
Thanks for noting the signature. I try to be a nice guy. But it's easier when you set low expectations to start with![}:)]

Miscreant at large.

KevinSheen
03-15-2005, 12:43 PM
Good deal, I'll look and let you know what I find when I get the truck back. I hope like hell its the original engine. KS
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Kev,

The engine serial# (which should shed light on what displacement it is and what it might have originated in - car or truck) is stamped (not "embossed" or "cast") onto a flat area, right at the front of the engine block itself. Right where the driver's side cylinder head meets the front top surface of the block - scrape away any grunge there and look for a stamped number. Likely it starts with 3E, 5E, 6E or 7E if it started life in a truck. If it started life in a car, a V or a P would likely be the first digit.[:I]
They're not BIG digits. They're only about 3/16ths an inch tall if that much.:D
Thanks for noting the signature. I try to be a nice guy. But it's easier when you set low expectations to start with![}:)]

Miscreant at large.


1963 Champ

mjeansonne
03-15-2005, 04:45 PM
Transtar;
Of course, you're right about separate prefixes for engines in cars and trucks, but as I said, "my memory ain't what it used to be"!!!!:D

BTW Kevin, I've had people argue with me that Studebaker trucks were built by International! Maybe that's where the '345' is coming from.

Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

KevinSheen
03-15-2005, 05:10 PM
Hey Jean, So far I haven't found any numbers on the engine. It also doesn't say International on it. All I know is that its yellow. Found the ignition problem too. Needs a new solenoid and I'm good to go. Fortunately, the solenoid that's there already is a regular Ford part and easily replaceable. So I'm having the guy check out the brakes in the morning and I'll be cruising. Happy Days Kevin
quote:Originally posted by mjeansonne

Transtar;
Of course, you're right about separate prefixes for engines in cars and trucks, but as I said, "my memory ain't what it used to be"!!!!:D

BTW Kevin, I've had people argue with me that Studebaker trucks were built by International! Maybe that's where the '345' is coming from.

Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker


1963 Champ

whacker
03-15-2005, 07:11 PM
For answers to your engine serial number questions, might I suggest:

http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/tech_v8data.asp

This is right here on this web site under the tech tips and specification section from the home page. If the serial number is not where MrBiggs suggested, the only other place might be at the opposite corner, to the left (as you face the engine) of the distributor. This would be a long shot, as that serial number would be a 5-6 digit number, and would specify a 232 engine from 1951 - 1954. That would have to have replaced the original sometime in the past. A long shot as I say. If the serial starts with a cloverleaf, or is only a cloverleaf, the engine is a factory replacement engine.

KevinSheen
03-15-2005, 08:11 PM
Thanks Whacker, I'll check it out. Kevin
quote:Originally posted by whacker

For answers to your engine serial number questions, might I suggest:

http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/tech_v8data.asp

This is right here on this web site under the tech tips and specification section from the home page. If the serial number is not where MrBiggs suggested, the only other place might be at the opposite corner, to the left (as you face the engine) of the distributor. This would be a long shot, as that serial number would be a 5-6 digit number, and would specify a 232 engine from 1951 - 1954. That would have to have replaced the original sometime in the past. A long shot as I say. If the serial starts with a cloverleaf, or is only a cloverleaf, the engine is a factory replacement engine.




1963 Champ

KevinSheen
03-16-2005, 12:55 PM
Okay folks, I found the number 1557570 cast on the cylinder head center exhaust port. I also found the number 1554341 on the radiator. I think we are getting closer. Any way to cross reference these numbers to an engine type? Thanks. Kevin

1963 Champ

Transtar60
03-16-2005, 02:56 PM
Well your getting warm. That is a Studebaker V8 head #.
On the center front of the engine, just above the timing cover, should be a little flat blockoff plate held on with two bolts. Just to the right of that(as you are standing in front of the truck) should be a flat machined spot where the serial # should be Stamped. Like one of the previous posters said, they are not big letters, 1/4" or 3/16 " maybe
.

KevinSheen
03-16-2005, 03:28 PM
Thanks TStar. I'll be looking. What a relief to know I've got a Stude engine!. Kevin

1963 Champ

N8N
03-16-2005, 06:27 PM
Eh, I wouldn't have been upset about an IH motor. The 345 is just like a Stude engine (overbuilt) just bigger!

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
62 Daytona hardtop
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Transtar60
03-16-2005, 07:21 PM
N8, an IH motor is fine if your baling hay or picking corn.<G>

mjeansonne
03-16-2005, 08:28 PM
There is a lot of rice grown around Crowley, Louisiana!:) That truck was [u]</u>too<s></s> pretty traveling down the interstate to have anything but a Stude engine!:)

Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

KevinSheen
03-16-2005, 10:57 PM
You're right Mike. Crowley is the rice capitol of the world because something like one third of the entire world's production of rice is grown around here. Hard to belive but true. We even have a rice museum. That's worth the trip all by itself!
Anyway, I'm glad to know I've got a Stude engine. I just wish I could find the numbers to find out what size it is.
Also, I need a waterpump. I went on e-bay after finding out that the Collins's are out. I found two people with Stude Waterpumps for sale. The first was for a 63 6 cyl champion according to the seller who was asking 27.99. The second was for 59-64 Studes with a p/n of 88-1261. Anyone know if that's the pump I need? Thanks. KS

1963 Champ

Roscomacaw
03-17-2005, 07:47 AM
The part number for a 63 Champ's V8 water pump is 1558224 but there's other factory part #s that are virtually the exact same thing. That number you've listed simply HAS to be some aftermarket rebuilder's stock number. There's NEVER a dash (hyphen) in a Stude part number. And frankly, however much a deal that pump might be, it's been years since jobbers bothered to keep rebuilt Stude pumps in stock. So likely, any old rebuilts that are still around may well have dried up grease in their bearings - or deteriorated seals. Who wants to put on a "new" pump only to have it fail in short order???[xx(] A "bargain like that is no bargain at all![}:)]
While we're on this topic, same thing goes with rebuilt fuel pumps. Most I've seen for sale on ebay, I wouldn't even bother to mount up! You're only ASKING for trouble by buying a rebuilt water pump, fuel pump or carb that's been sitting on the shelf for ages! Brand new or fresh rebuilt pumps are available from Stude vendors or even NAPA (Napa# M2211 gets you a brand new fuel pump!)
Same thing with old radiator hoses. I looked at a cache of NOS Stude radiator hoses yesterday. They felt pliable and all but I can tell you from experience - you'll be lucky to get a year's use out of them before they start to degrade. Think about it! 40 or 50 year old rubber parts! Would you trust a condom that old[?] I MIGHT use an NOS radiator hose if I was showing the car and wanted it to be as original in appearance as possible. I wouldn't drive it much with that hose tho.:(
SASCO and other vendors stock V8 pumps and SASCO's V8 pump is 1563640. That number supercedes 1558224 and about 6 other Stude V8 pump #s! BTW, their price is $78 bucks and change +shipping of course.
I'm sure SI and Stpehen Allens and many others have V8 pumps. SI (Studebaker International) has one pump to fit almost ALL 51 to 64 Stude V8 engines except Avanti. That number is 527070 and these are NEW Water pumps - not rebuilt. $80 + shipping
I believe SASCO's pump is new an not rebuilt also. Not sure tho. Ask if you call.[^]
OH! And one other thing - these new water pumps are available because your friendly Stude parts vendors threw in together and had some made. When we buy from these vendors who support our specific needs, we perpetuate the incentive for them to reproduce things. THAT'S only going to work in OUR favor so long as we keep such doings profitable for them. They're not doing it entirely for love of the marque. They're doing it to make a buck too. When you buy some tired rebuilt off ebay, you're doing yourself a disfavor by diminishing the appeal for these guys to repop more parts as they become scarce!

Miscreant at large.

KevinSheen
03-17-2005, 08:53 AM
I ordered the pump from SASCO this morning. Thanks for the heads-up about e-bay. I'm kind of new to the whole computer thing and had never been on e-bay before, I just thought I'd have a look. Mea Culpa, mea maxima culpa!
My truck has an aftermarket, electric fuel pump in use as a theft deterrent. I'm going to leave it there. It wouldn't phaze a pro, but it would stop a dumb kid from joyriding. Kevin

1963 Champ

Roscomacaw
03-17-2005, 09:51 AM
Yeah, an electric pump is fine. Just don't plumb it THRU the old mechanical pump! Some folks have done that and had a rude awakening when the diaphragm in the old pump broke and the electric pump dutifully filled the engine with raw gasoline![xx(]
If you have a pump that' putting out too much pressure (to where it floods the carb), use a pressure regulator between the pump and carb and set it NO higher than 3 or 4lbs. pressure.;)

Miscreant at large.

KevinSheen
03-17-2005, 10:28 AM
Good tip. I'll doublecheck that when I get the truck back, but I'm pretty sure the old pump is bypassed already. K

1963 Champ

KevinSheen
03-19-2005, 02:29 PM
My bed is 70 inches wide and 8 FT long. And my engine number is P 103363.

1963 Champ

Transtar60
03-19-2005, 03:02 PM
Well Kevin, your trucks engine started life as a 1963 car 289 cid V8.
Which is no big deal . My 64 Champ's 289 started out in a 57 Studebaker Commander/President.

KevinSheen
03-19-2005, 03:11 PM
I was real happy to find out the engine was a Stude, even if its not the one that was originally in the truck to begin with. The waterpump repair went fine, but the radiator needs to be recored or replaced. She's a-leakin . I put a bottle of Bars Leak in it for the time being, but I'll get right on this latest problem Monday morning.
What do you think of that wide bed I've got. That would be one of the Dodge beds, right?

1963 Champ

KevinSheen
03-19-2005, 05:11 PM
Mr Biggs,
I just checked my electric fuel pump set up and it does indeed bypass the original fuel pump. Also, I think I've got one of those big Dodge boxes. The id from wall to wall is 70 inches and she's just a tad over 8 feet long.
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Yeah, an electric pump is fine. Just don't plumb it THRU the old mechanical pump! Some folks have done that and had a rude awakening when the diaphragm in the old pump broke and the electric pump dutifully filled the engine with raw gasoline![xx(]
If you have a pump that' putting out too much pressure (to where it floods the carb), use a pressure regulator between the pump and carb and set it NO higher than 3 or 4lbs. pressure.;)

Miscreant at large.


1963 Champ

Transtar60
03-19-2005, 06:53 PM
Yep that be the "Dodge" box. Or as Studebaker called it the "Spaceside box". It doesnt appear to fit exactly at first but it'll grow on you.
Some guy in Texas, narrowed his short wide box, but that was a lot of work for some visual improvement.

KevinSheen
03-19-2005, 07:55 PM
That's what I thought Charles,
I like the way it looks and it will come in handy as I plan for this truck to be useful as well as stylish! Not that I'm planning on working it to death, but when I need to haul something from Home Depot it will come in handy. n Kevin

1963 Champ