Aluminum casting

[Kdancy]

Sonny, I talked to this company about 7 months ago concerning casting the Stude heads in Aluminum. Had a nice conversation and found that he would dicker with price. I was playing with the idea of taking a set of Jim Lange's heads that were re-done with the chrysler intake ports, so you can just bolt on a chrysler intake without using any adaptor plates, letting Nimesh do his flow work then taking the head and having it cast in aluminum. Would be better than anything we have at this point. Got to bogged down working on the Cursed Hawk to go any further but found it very feasible. Aluminum heads with purpose designed headers (Headers by Ed) was my thinking.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT

[DEEPNHOCK]

Okay,
But why not look at the highest flowing head design and incorporate that design, including EFI bungs. I'd almost rather see an intake port design that would take a cheapie Chevy intake manifold (that would have to be cut down) rather than an expensive Chrysler manifold (that still has to be cut down).. Same goes for the exhaust....
Not pickin' at ya, of course. Just being a cheap ass.
Buying the heads will bust my budget anyways, so why kill it off completely with the intake and exhaust manifolds.
Love the idea though....
Jeff (an LS6 Stude? Hmmmmm...) Rice[8D]

quote:Originally posted by Kdancy

Sonny, I talked to this company about 7 months ago concerning casting the Stude heads in Aluminum. Had a nice conversation and found that he would dicker with price. I was playing with the idea of taking a set of Jim Lange's heads that were re-done with the chrysler intake ports, so you can just bolt on a chrysler intake without using any adaptor plates, letting Nimesh do his flow work then taking the head and having it cast in aluminum. Would be better than anything we have at this point. Got to bogged down working on the Cursed Hawk to go any further but found it very feasible. Aluminum heads with purpose designed headers (Headers by Ed) was my thinking.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT

DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
'61 Hawk
'37 Coupe Express

http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

[Kdancy]

A couple of reasons Jeff. The chrysler intake does not have to be cut down, so I am lost at your post on that. The efi bungs would be cast into the intake ports of the Lang heads because of the way the chrysler ports are already in-- have you seen one of his reworked heads? Chevy intake ports are not as straight a shot as the chrysler ones, Jim had already played with that idea before coming up with the chrysler intake design. Lost you on the exhaust comment as well? The design work has been about done to the max when you incorporate what Jim has done and what Nemish can massage out of it. Chrysler intakes are fairly cheap. If you are talking about a completely different head-- just to expensive to do the R and D work to make it close to affordable. I got the casting company down to around 1200.00 for bare heads (without valve train) but that was before the price of metal went up so much.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT

[DEEPNHOCK]

You still have to trim the front and back off the chrysler manifold, don't you? It's not an open valley type cover like a Caddy or a Stude. I agree that the EFI bungs should be as close as possible.
No, I haven't seen any of his heads. Any pic's anywhere?
My comment was more along the lines of.... If you are casting from a clean slate, why limit yourself to a head design that has already been 'maxed out' (your words).. One could start with a clean piece of paper and use only the bore centers and head bolt pattern and come up with a flow rate that would make any Stude derivative envious.
I'm not instigating here, just thinking outside the box I won't get in. Stude engineers were stuck with what they had in the 1950's because of budget concerns. Do we 'need' to stay there? I would hope not.
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by Kdancy

A couple of reasons Jeff. The chrysler intake does not have to be cut down, so I am lost at your post on that. The efi bungs would be cast into the intake ports of the Lang heads because of the way the chrysler ports are already in-- have you seen one of his reworked heads? Chevy intake ports are not as straight a shot as the chrysler ones, Jim had already played with that idea before coming up with the chrysler intake design. Lost you on the exhaust comment as well? The design work has been about done to the max when you incorporate what Jim has done and what Nemish can massage out of it. Chrysler intakes are fairly cheap. If you are talking about a completely different head-- just to expensive to do the R and D work to make it close to affordable. I got the casting company down to around 1200.00 for bare heads (without valve train) but that was before the price of metal went up so much.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT

DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
'61 Hawk
'37 Coupe Express

http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

[Kdancy]

Jeff, I think what I purposed is a much better set up than the best that Stude made at any point including the R3. It takes into account using a much better intake system then any Studebaker had and uses roller lifter set up. Jim did quite a bit of R&D to get to that point and have the fastest Studebaker powered car ever at the salt flats. His heads were the key. Now take that re-design and have Nimesh do the flow work to really maximise it and build the new ones using the Jim Lange--Nimesh work. You wind up having an aluminum head motor with the best design work that is available. To make a completely new design up from scratch would probably require new valve and camshaft design which would be great, but make the whole project unaffordable. I wouldn't sweat cutting the ends off of the chrysler intake, I have done 5 of them and believe me, you are making it sound much harder then it is. Any teenager could do it in 20 minutes with a band saw. The highest price I paid for a chrysler intake was 130.00 so the cost is certainly not prohibitive. Welding and drilling for new intake mounting holes (when using adaptor plates) is more involved. Add to that the Ed's Headers designed exhaust headers and you would have the best breathing Studebaker in existence.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT

[DEEPNHOCK]

Sounds neat.
Where are some websites that I can go to to see some of this work?
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by Kdancy

Jeff, I think what I purposed is a much better set up than the best that Stude made at any point including the R3. It takes into account using a much better intake system then any Studebaker had and uses roller lifter set up. Jim did quite a bit of R&D to get to that point and have the fastest Studebaker powered car ever at the salt flats. His heads were the key. Now take that re-design and have Nimesh do the flow work to really maximise it and build the new ones using the Jim Lange--Nimesh work. You wind up having an aluminum head motor with the best design work that is available. To make a completely new design up from scratch would probably require new valve and camshaft design which would be great, but make the whole project unaffordable. I wouldn't sweat cutting the ends off of the chrysler intake, I have done 5 of them and believe me, you are making it sound much harder then it is. Any teenager could do it in 20 minutes with a band saw. The highest price I paid for a chrysler intake was 130.00 so the cost is certainly not prohibitive. Welding and drilling for new intake mounting holes (when using adaptor plates) is more involved. Add to that the Ed's Headers designed exhaust headers and you would have the best breathing Studebaker in existence.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT

DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
'61 Hawk
'37 Coupe Express

http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

[Sonny]

quote:Originally posted by Kdancy

Sonny, I talked to this company about 7 months ago concerning casting the Stude heads in Aluminum. Had a nice conversation and found that he would dicker with price. I was playing with the idea of taking a set of Jim Lange's heads that were re-done with the chrysler intake ports, so you can just bolt on a chrysler intake without using any adaptor plates, letting Nimesh do his flow work then taking the head and having it cast in aluminum. Would be better than anything we have at this point. Got to bogged down working on the Cursed Hawk to go any further but found it very feasible. Aluminum heads with purpose designed headers (Headers by Ed) was my thinking.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT

Hmmm..... Something weird going on Kerry, I thought that I'd posted an answer yesterday and it never showed up! Anyway, what I said was, this is exactly the kind of information that I'm looking for, and I think you're right on, Jim Lange did all the homework, so why re-invent the wheel? I'd definitely like to discuss it further with you. Thanks a million!


Sonny

http://RacingStudebakers.com

[Kdancy]

Sonny, if I'm not mistaken both Barlow Sopher and Chris Altenburg have Jim Lange motors with his head work. Both put out pretty serious HP for the street and I believe are running EFI. I think Chris took off the paxton and put some other kind of blower on, made the bracketry and all for mounting the new one up. I think both motors are running roller rockers.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT

[Sonny]

Thanks partner, I'll have to get in touch with both of them. Anybody got an email address for either one? Thanks in advance.

Sonny

http://RacingStudebakers.com

[wcarroll@outrageous.net]

You certainly have my attention KDANCY! I was bummed when I found out that Jet City was no longer. I would love to be able to get a set of heads like the ones you are suggesting. Ofcourse I am currently broke(who isn't?), but would look forward to such a purchase in the future. And the price seems reasonable for aluminum heads. I say go for it!

[am not r2]

I am reading this tread with great interest. I think that an al. head would sell. If Barlow Soper chated it up in his collum in T.W. I bet you could get advance orders to cut the costs. just thinkin' out loud. Rich

[Kdancy]

There already is or was an aluminum copy of the R3 head made and sold by Lionel Stone I think. However, I never heard any good things about it and when I called and asked if he had ever dynoed it on an engine (before and after) or flow tested the head he said neither. I think the quality control and lack of real data turned many people off about purchasing one.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT

[dclewallen]

Maybe off topic but hey its still aluminum. Why does'nt someone cast an aluminum 4V intake for a Stude. V-8 at a Reasonable price? Considering their size it should not cost too much should it? dclewallen

Darryl C. Lewallen

[Sonny]

We are definitely workin' on that Darryl. I think Jeff Rice is gonna have some real surprises for everybody at York. Stay tuned.......

Sonny

http://RacingStudebakers.com

[Kdancy]

I hope you are not talking about a copy of the cast iron intake manifold but a totally new design Stude manifold. A copy won't help performance as the stock design really sucks.

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT