PDA

View Full Version : Hot, need help on this ASAP



dan0
01-12-2005, 03:24 PM
Guys-
Here is the scenario, drive my 53' 2R11 (Commander 6) to work, wait a min.. it 'smells' funny....hey! were getting warm! I shut it off. The LOWER HOSE TUBE IS COOL TO THE TOUCH! So I (cool it down) and swap thermostats. The one I put in ops ck good in a pan of water this am. Start, run breifly and the lower hose is still cool [}:)]... -no flow. Any inputs? Can't be a bad pump, unless the impeller blades are shot, No way. 8500 miles on rebuilt eng. Runs like a top otherwise. Can a 'bubble' cause this? How do I remedy trapped air? Reason I ask is the coolant was very eager to exit the bolt holes for the thermostat housing (gooseneck), and this was LONG (4 hrs!) after it had cooled. Clearly there was pressure behind it.
inputs appreciated, dead in the water[xx(]
dan0



Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

Sonny
01-12-2005, 03:39 PM
Sorry to hear about the problem Dan. Yep, a bubble, or a pocket of air can shut down the flow. The "coolant was very eager to exit the bolt holes for the thermostat housing" because your block is full of coolant and that sounds normal. I would leave the thermostat out and try it again. That'll do a couple of things, first it will help to clear the air pocket if you have one, and second, if you service the radiator, (and has anyone ever told you that you have to leave about an inch of space from the radiator inlet to the level of coolant in the radiator?), you can actually see the coolant circulating. Over-servicing it, then using a high pressure radiator cap, (or a cap that's bad), will make it overheat too Dan. Keep us posted will ya?

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

dan0
01-12-2005, 03:47 PM
Sonny-
Thanks. What about the COOL lower hose/tube??

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

Roscomacaw
01-12-2005, 04:44 PM
Here's what I can add as to the cool lower hose. I've actualy SEEN this with my own eyes. If the lower hose develops an obstruction, the hot water stays at the top of the radiator. Since there's no circulation route, the heated water can't much get past the thermostat. Nor is the hot water gonna try and go backwards to the radiator.
What I've seen is the lower rad hoses do two different things. One, the internal spring (assuming there was one to start with) rusts away and lets the pull of the water pump suck it shut. I"ve seen this phenomenon happen with my own eyes. Sometimes it only does it at increased RPMs - so your car gets hot, you get out and have a look-see under the hood and all seems OK - unless you razz the engine a bit and just happen to be looking at the lower hose as it collapses!
Another version of this is where only the inner layers of the lower hose collapse. Then even revving the engine gives no clue because the exterior of the hose appears OK.[}:)]
Also, I've seen the impellor wheel of the water pump come loose from the end of the shaft! No noise to indicate anything's wrong - just not moving the water at all![xx(]

Miscreant at large.

Sonny
01-12-2005, 04:55 PM
That's a sure sign that it's not circulating. That radiator was cleaned, correct? If that hasn't been done, that's the [u]First</u> thing I'd do, get it rodded out and cleaned. BTW, you do know that, to reduce mineral buildup and make your radiator work twice as long between cleanings, you use distilled water in the cooling system, right? I use distilled water in everything I own. The other common mistake people make is putting too much antifreeze in their cooling system. Never, but never mix it more than 50/50, antifreeze will actually clog the cooling system if it's used in higher than a 50/50 ratio.

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

dan0
01-12-2005, 04:59 PM
I wonder if the impeller went bad on me. There was no indication of it...whisper-quiet ol flattie engine...I'll go and remove the t-stat. Attempt to go home. Monitor operation.
Will update when I can....
dan0

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

dan0
01-12-2005, 05:00 PM
On edit, yes the rad is el clean-o
dan0

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

Sonny
01-12-2005, 05:03 PM
quote:Originally posted by dan0

On edit, yes the rad is el clean-o
dan0

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H


Just a quick sugestion Dan, leave the rdiator cap loose and let it run for a bit and see if it starts circulating.

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

dan0
01-12-2005, 05:14 PM
Little nervous, don't wish to have a heat problem..I did run it as I mentioned B4, but perhaps not long enough for the t-stat to open. Are you suggesting this prior to removing the stat'?
dan0

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

Sonny
01-12-2005, 05:19 PM
Yes, run it a bit before you take out the t-stat. That way you can check the hoses like Bob suggested and see if it will circulate. Do you have a thermometer that you can stick in the rad? That's the BEST way to tell what you really have. I've thought my car was getting hot until I used the external thermometer in the rad. With the cap loose and it running, it Will bubble over and lose some coolant, but it will let out enough until it's happy with that level, Just keep an eye on it.

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

dan0
01-12-2005, 06:09 PM
Well drove home and the lower hose tube is COLD. Very short drive thankfully! Will pull-stat, run it, -ck for flow- and report back l8er
dan0

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

dan0
01-12-2005, 07:05 PM
:D:D
pulled the stat. topped off. started. I HAVE A VERY GOOOOOOD WATER PUMP![^][:p]
The lower hose warmed up immediately. Let her run @ idle. Run great, warm lower hose, I left the stat out. I would appear I have 2 bad ones! Now c'mon, 2 bad ones???[}:)] Recall, I tested the one I had replaced earlier 2day? Well that one was in while I drove home a scant ;) 1.5 mile. So now all you skilled t-shooters, order a stat or run w-out? [B)]I know no stat is a BAD idea,
dan0

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

Sonny
01-12-2005, 07:14 PM
Damn, it's just not circulating. Yeah, please let us know what you find Dan, I'd like to know what it was.....

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

dan0
01-12-2005, 07:35 PM
Got to be a baad t-stat. I mean that's it. Wht do ya think of not running with a stat? I guess I'll locate one and replace it. Too bad I have to order the thing. And wait[|)][|)][|)]
dan0


Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

Sonny
01-12-2005, 08:17 PM
Heck yeah, nothing wrong with running it without the t-stat Dan. Go fer it!

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Roscomacaw
01-12-2005, 10:23 PM
Sonny and I are gonna butt heads on this one. It's bad practice to run without the T-stat. Without that T-stat, the engine typically takes alot longer to get to operating temp. This theoretically causes undue wear on the moving parts and inhibits the optimum temp for proper combustion. If your engine don't warm up as quick as it should, you need a richer mixture to make it run until it DOES get warm - richer mixture = less lubrication to cylinder walls.[xx(]
I've run engines without a T-stat in a pinch. But i don't let them go like that for long.;)

Miscreant at large.

dan0
01-12-2005, 10:46 PM
Yes I agree. T-stat will b o/o tomorrow!
Thanks for ya'lls comebacks!
dan0

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

Sonny
01-12-2005, 11:00 PM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Sonny and I are gonna butt heads on this one. It's bad practice to run without the T-stat. Without that T-stat, the engine typically takes alot longer to get to operating temp. This theoretically causes undue wear on the moving parts and inhibits the optimum temp for proper combustion. If your engine don't warm up as quick as it should, you need a richer mixture to make it run until it DOES get warm - richer mixture = less lubrication to cylinder walls.[xx(]
I've run engines without a T-stat in a pinch. But i don't let them go like that for long.;)

Miscreant at large.



Oh heck, no buttin' heads on this one Bob, I'd never run one very long without a t-stat, but it doesn't hurt anything for a while. ;)

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

DEEPNHOCK
01-13-2005, 08:04 AM
Couple of questions...
On your thermostat... Do you have the riser spacer in there?
I had an engine that had no spacer and the thermostat just flopped around in there. Had to 'build' a spacer. Made it out of a chunk of radiator hose that slipped in there. Worked great, and was free.
You really should run a t'stat. Sometimes, without a t'stat, water can go through the engine too fast and not exchange the BTU's the way they were designed. Then it get's too hot. Also, engine's don't like cold operating temps. If you had to run without one, I would suggest gutting the core out of the bad t'stat, but saving the plate and using it as a restrictor.....
Just an opinion.
Jeff[8D]






quote:Originally posted by dan0

:D:D
pulled the stat. topped off. started. I HAVE A VERY GOOOOOOD WATER PUMP![^][:p]
The lower hose warmed up immediately. Let her run @ idle. Run great, warm lower hose, I left the stat out. I would appear I have 2 bad ones! Now c'mon, 2 bad ones???[}:)] Recall, I tested the one I had replaced earlier 2day? Well that one was in while I drove home a scant ;) 1.5 mile. So now all you skilled t-shooters, order a stat or run w-out? [B)]I know no stat is a BAD idea,
dan0

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H


DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
'61 Hawk
'37 Coupe Express
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

N8N
01-13-2005, 10:02 AM
I believe that the thermostat depending on year/engine will either be for a Chevy or else a Chrysler V-8, so you can get a brand new one at your FLAPS easily.

Not sure about the spacer, never replaced the 'stat on a Commander six. I know the Champion six had it though.

nate

--
62 Daytona hartop
64 Daytona convertible (in boxes)
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Sonny
01-13-2005, 11:34 AM
quote:Originally posted by dan0

:D:D
pulled the stat. topped off. started. I HAVE A VERY GOOOOOOD WATER PUMP![^][:p]
The lower hose warmed up immediately. Let her run @ idle. Run great, warm lower hose, I left the stat out. I would appear I have 2 bad ones! Now c'mon, 2 bad ones???[}:)] Recall, I tested the one I had replaced earlier 2day? Well that one was in while I drove home a scant ;) 1.5 mile. So now all you skilled t-shooters, order a stat or run w-out? [B)]I know no stat is a BAD idea,
dan0



Damn, somehow I missed this post completely! So it WAS the t-stat! I think you said you have to order one and that's what I'd do Dan. From many years of my own experience, it will not hurt to drive it until the thermostat gets there. I would not drive it forever without a thermostat, it's there for a reason, to slow the water down in the system long enough for the radiator to cool the water better. Two bad t-stats? Hell yeah, I don't doubt it a bit. Glad that you found the problem.

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Transtar60
01-13-2005, 12:36 PM
quote:Originally posted by N8N

I believe that the thermostat depending on year/engine will either be for a Chevy or else a Chrysler V-8, so you can get a brand new one at your FLAPS easily.

Not sure about the spacer, never replaced the 'stat on a Commander six. I know the Champion six had it though.

nate

--
62 Daytona hartop
64 Daytona convertible (in boxes)
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel



Nate most thermostat catalogs in some FLAPS still list Studebaker applications. I know the ones Autozoo uses do.

GTtim
01-13-2005, 07:10 PM
DanO, two bad thermostats sounds like a rare deal. You checked the operation of the one you were using also, correct? So, is it possible you put the thing in upside down? Just wondering.
Tim K.

dan0
01-13-2005, 08:04 PM
What a supportive bunch! Well for 2.99 + a gasket she is fixed. Stant # 3476 160 deg t-stat. OPS CK :D:D:D[:p][:p] Thanks for all of the support here, time for a brew!

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

Roscomacaw
01-13-2005, 08:34 PM
Cool Deal! (well, at least not the lower hose now!:D) Two bad thermostats in a row. Weird, but not unheard of. Frankly, as more and more of this stuff is made "offshore", it's cheaper alright - until you have to change it a couple of times to get it right. Ah - for the good ol' days..........[V]
Lost in a flurry of foreign "jelly bean"-mobiles, my stylish old iron stands out like a sore thumb. Poor young kids in the cars around me have NO sense of pride in driving an American (all-american at that) vehicle. It's just "normal" to send their money overseas so they can scoot around in little anonymobiles made of formed foil. :(
I'd like to say I'm damned proud of you for really DRIVING that Stude truck of yours. We can't even dream of turning the tide, but we can damned sure keep the faith and keep the marque alive![^]

Miscreant at large.

dan0
01-13-2005, 10:41 PM
Ya know the two that were bad were apparently old-timers...one is a weird shape poppet-style. I'll keep it for nostalgia;) Heck it's all brass maybe I'll polish it up a little.;)
Yup the ol boy sure gets some eyes! Thumbs up, the whole turn/grin thing. It is cool. The truck has a loyal following I tell ya, when we first showed here folks were really eyeing it up.
Can't wait to show em' what a cool ol' 41 M15 will look like in black cherry and pearl white with 17" ORIGINAL Daytons:D:D
Well be good ya'll
Man I like this forum!
dan0

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H