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61bone
01-12-2005, 02:07 PM
I recently aqquired a 60's street rod with a v/8 studebaker engine in it. Runs great even after setting for over twenty years. My question is this: How do I identify this engine as to year and displacement? There is a number cast on the top front of the block (527644) but it does't seem to correlate to any of the id numbers in my books. Supposedly it came out of a 54, model unknown.
Any and all help greatly appreciated.
Dwight

where there's foo there's fire

Sonny
01-12-2005, 02:30 PM
Hi Dwight, and welcome to the Studebaker Drivers Club! The number you've listed is a casting number. Standing facing the car/engine, the serial number is on a machined pad, on the driver's side, very front edge, top of the block, just to the right of the oil fill tube, in behind the water manifold. Clean all the grease off and you'll be rewarded. You didn't say what the street rod was, can you tell us more about it?

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

61bone
01-12-2005, 03:38 PM
It's a chopped ,channeled 27 T coupe built late50s-early 60s. built on a double z'd 2x3 homebuilt frame. Bell front hairpins and axle with 16" Akront mudcatcher rims wired to Hallcraft spindle mount hubs . Studebaker rear with American Racing 16" wheels mounting 60s 10" M&H slicks. Rear brakes only at present time. I am planning on upgrading the brakes with 05 Yamaha discs in front and 91 Eldorado rears with a 91 Eldo m/c, adjustable proportioning valve and 2# residual valves. M/C will be remote mounted in the trunk actuated by a slave cylinder powered by the old fruitjar m/c if it works. Iffn it don't, I will try a #6 morse cable and leave the fruitjar in place as eyewash.
Studebaker motor mounts a 6-71 faux blower and 2x4's. Actual carb is a 2bbl hidden in the blower on a stock manifold. 7" high windshield ( 70s sunroof lets on see the lights) and blower makes for very poor visibility out front. Would like to change to 3x2's if I can find a manifold. Blower was added in about 79 by previous owner just before he went on. The original homemade headers were replaced by sprint headers for a Chebby via junky adapter. The originals got trashcanned just a few days before I found out the car was for sale.
Stude 3 speed mounts an early hurst mixer that is bent to a double L shape because it comes out of the floor under the drivers right leg. Fortunatly the trans is smooth shifter so the short stick and short throw (about 2 ") aren't objectionable.
Stude rear hangs on a T spring with split whisbones. The way the springs are mounted causes a problem. A hard bump causes the spring shackle to smash the brake lines. Presto, no brakes. This problem will be taken care of with the new disc brakes.
Body and rad shell are mediterranian blue w/ black top. Inside is a dark purple interior, which I think is faded fom black as the color is not uniform. I am going to leave it that way. Frame and engine are black with a godawful orange differential(this I will change).
My plan is to keep it as it was with only safety related and maybe a few performance changes.

where there's foo there's fire

Roscomacaw
01-12-2005, 03:56 PM
As you stand in front of the engine, there's a small machined area at the very front, top of the engine block - right where the edge of the driver's side cylinder head mates to the block. The ID number will be STAMPED - not cast - onto that machined area. IF it's a really early Stude V8, '51-'52, this stamped number would be about and inch or two away from the distributor base - at the rear of the engine.
If it IS truly a '54 engine, it would have started life as a 232cu.in. version. That was the only displacement they had from 51 thru 54. If it's a later engine it can be 224, 259 or 289 in displacement. 259 being the most common.[^]

Miscreant at large.

Sonny
01-12-2005, 04:09 PM
quote:Originally posted by 61bone

It's a chopped ,channeled 27 T coupe...... <SNIP>
where there's foo there's fire

I'll TAKE it! Man it sounds like a great little rod, I'm jealous. [:I] It's very unusual that it has a Stude engine in it too, but I'm impressed! It'll run like a bear for ya. If you have pictures of it you can put 'em up here, http://racingstudebakers.com/coppermine/index.php, if you'd like. I'd sure like to see it. Thanks Bone....

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

61bone
01-13-2005, 01:38 PM
there wasn't much to clean, just paint . The only thing there is a small punch mark shaped like a three leaf clover. What next?
Dwight

where there's foo there's fire

Sonny
01-13-2005, 01:51 PM
quote:Originally posted by 61bone

there wasn't much to clean, just paint . The only thing there is a small punch mark shaped like a three leaf clover. What next?
Dwight

where there's foo there's fire


The cloverleaf tells you that it's a factory replacement engine Dwight. That means that it looks like you have to do the old "measure the stroke" trick. You can pull a plug and using a rod, turn the engine over, (with the coil wire out [:p]), mark the rod at the the full extremes of piston travel, then measure the distance between the marks, that will give you a starting point. I have to check to see if I still have a list of casting numbers, but I think we can get you into a better ball park using the stroke and casting numbers.

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Roscomacaw
01-13-2005, 02:13 PM
As Sonny says, replacement block. Obviously, whoever did the replacement didn't bother to transfer the engine #. Doesn't really matter save for helping to discern the displacement.
As Sonny says, get a wooden dowel and measure the extremes of stroke thru a plug hole. (Turning the engine by hand, of course!) Also, if you peer into that spark plug hole and see dished pistons, there's a fair chance it's a 289. That would be a nice discovery![:p]

Miscreant at large.

studegary
01-13-2005, 05:03 PM
Does it have the original fuel pump or can you at least determine where the fuel pump was originally located? If the pump was top center, above the engine, it is a 1951-1954 233 cubic inch V8. If the pump is down low on the engine, it is a 224, 259, 289 or 304 cubic inch engine. Of course any of these could be changed by boring and/or changing internal components by now.

61bone
01-14-2005, 01:58 PM
This seems strange to me, but cut me some slack, I'm from out of town. There seems to be no provision for a fuel pump or oil filter for that matter. Been reading the next post and I kinda figured out that these motors have a separate oil filter ala Fxxx flathead, right? How do I plumb one in? This car has an electric pump mounted by the tank that is about 2"x5".(the pump not the tank)That's all there is.
The stroke measured out to be 2.292" measured with a dial indicator.
The head casting # are 52772 if that helps.
Dwight


where there's foo there's fire

DEEPNHOCK
01-14-2005, 03:06 PM
No sweat!
You have a later model long block in there, probably with an early timing cover and the old style fuel pump...long gone.
I'd love to see pic's of that faked blower setup, just to see how they hooked up the housing and the belt drive...
Until late '62, the oil filter was indeed an option.
Keep on pluggin' away there. Sounds like a fun project.
Jeff[8D]




quote:Originally posted by 61bone

This seems strange to me, but cut me some slack, I'm from out of town. There seems to be no provision for a fuel pump or oil filter for that matter. Been reading the next post and I kinda figured out that these motors have a separate oil filter ala Fxxx flathead, right? How do I plumb one in? This car has an electric pump mounted by the tank that is about 2"x5".(the pump not the tank)That's all there is.
The stroke measured out to be 2.292" measured with a dial indicator.
The head casting # are 52772 if that helps.
Dwight


where there's foo there's fire


DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
'61 Hawk
'37 Coupe Express
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

N8N
01-14-2005, 03:12 PM
Well... the lack of a fuel pump does not mean anything really, this engine may have an early timing cover (with no provision for a fuel pump) and a late oil filler tube (likewise) or even an oil filler tube blockoff plate, as used on the full flow engines (with breathers in the valve covers in that case, I hope) on the same engine, no big deal if the electric is working well. If not, you either need to swap your timing cover or your oil filler tube, whichever you prefer. May be a few other parts involved as well, depending on why the fuel pump was replaced with electric. Don't understand that stroke measurement, a 289 is 3-5/8" and a 259/232 is 3-1/4"; a 224 would be 2-13/16".

If there is a provision for an oil filter it will be on the passenger side rear of the block. There may not be; there wasn't any up until mid-1962. There could also be a blockoff plate where the filter mount would go, might want to take a look. You are correct, the earlier engines used a Fram F4 bypass type filter mounted to the oil filler tube on the front of the engine, it got its feed from the little hole in the front of the driver's side head and returned the filtered oil into the little boss in the oil filler tube. That's for the last of the partial flow blocks, I'm not sure exactly the details of the filter mount for the earlier engines with the fuel pump mounted up on the filler tube. The oil filter was optional up until the introduction of the full flow block, before you start cussing out the previous owner :)

good luck

nate

--
62 Daytona hartop
64 Daytona convertible (in boxes)
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

61bone
01-15-2005, 07:41 AM
Thanks for all your help and advice guys. A little discrepancy there, but who knows what all has happened in the last 50 years. We will assume it is a 232/259 until proven otherwise. If anyone could put me on to a 2 or 3 deuce manifold it wwould be much appreciated. I will post some pictures of my T and the Foomobile soon. Thanks again
Dwight

where there's foo there's fire

Roscomacaw
01-15-2005, 09:20 AM
Dwight,

Surely - from time to time - one of these manifolds turns up. But your best bet is keeping a vigilant eye on ebay.
There's an annual All-stude swap meet coming up in March at York PA and another one in South Bend in May. Then there's the annual internats which will be in Spokane WA this August. Always lots of vendors and guys bringing stuff from their garages to sell at these meets.;)

Miscreant at large.

studegary
01-15-2005, 01:27 PM
The stroke of Studebaker V8s ranged from 2.81 to 3.63 inches. Are you sure it is not 3.25 inches? That would be correct for a 1951 to 1954 V8.

61bone
02-01-2005, 08:10 PM
[^]here we go again. I got someone (my wife) to hold the dial indicator so it wouldn't move and here's what I got. The stroke measures out to 3.250. If this engine is actually a 54 that would indicate a 232, right? So, are there any indicators of the manufacturing date cast in the engine block like in the valley or under the bell housing? There aren't any I could find on the outside.
Maybe I ought to replace the fake blower with a real one[:p]. The 7.50 comp ratio of the 232 is just about perfect for that. With 10 lbs of boost that would make the equivalent of about 450ci. Now, how good is the bottom end of this motor. Would it be up to 350 hp @ 5000? The 2" rods and 2.5" mains seem a little on the light side, but I don't have the width of them and that would have some bearing on it. [:I]
Sorry I ask so many questions, I usually do my own research on these things but there is so little info to research I just have to ask someone who has actual experience with what I am doing.
Thanks again guys.

where there's foo there's fire

Roscomacaw
02-01-2005, 08:43 PM
That lower end's EASILY capable of the HP you mentioned! This is proven on a regular basis with a number of ass-kick Stude racers!
Did you happen to notice if the piston tops were dished? If not, this would at least rule out a standard 289 version.
The 232's heads had little bitty ports and valves. To a knowing eye, they're readily identifiable. How about the casting # that's right above the center exhaust port?[:I]

Miscreant at large.

61bone
02-02-2005, 02:11 AM
the head casting no. is 52772

where there's foo there's fire

Roscomacaw
02-02-2005, 10:41 AM
Actualy, you're short a digit with that number but it's close enough to assume those heads are for a 232. Read that: highly restricted breathing capabilities. Even Stude realized that with the introduction of the next generation V8 engines in '55. The 224 and 259 that debuted that year, got redesigned heads with vastly improved breathing to them. '55 also saw smaller lifters incorporated to cut the weight of the valve train down.;)
All this noted, the 232 is not a slug for it's day. It was well-respected when it debuted. And save for a problem with the cams in the earliest editions, it served well for the four years Stude used it.[^]

Miscreant at large.