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gasser
12-25-2004, 02:31 AM
So, I just bought a '60 lark 2dr h/t. It was originaly a 6 cylinder 3spd o.d. car, at some point in its life someone swapped in a v8 but it never saw the road that way and the motor is no longer with it. I will be installing a well built 259. The guy I bought it from said it has a twin traction rear end in it. So my questions are: Was the twin traction offered with 6 cylinder cars? If it was how do I check to see which rear-end I have? Im hoping it is a 6 cylinder rear end so I can have a lower gear set cause Im building the car to be a mean street brawler. If they didnt and its a rear-end out of a v8 car where can I get lower gears for this rear end? Im looking for something around 4:10-4:62. Thanks for the help!

Sonny
12-25-2004, 10:43 AM
Hey Gasser!

Merry Christmas and you're a man that I like to talk with! I love the high performance Studebaker stuff. Have you checked out my website? (shameless plug! [:I]) I have a '60 Lark HT with a 259 too! Just put a Dana 44, 3.54 TT from an Avanti in it and a two-duce carb setup is going on it soon.

Anyway, your questions.......

Yes, the Twin Traction rear end was put into 6 cylinder cars, BUT, it was normally the model 27 Dana, a good rear end, but not what you'll be wanting for "a mean street brawler". You're gonna need to find the stronger, model 44 Dana.

The way to tell what you have is, looking at the "punkin" from the rear of the car, take your wire brush and clean up the lower, right area of the punkin' housing where the axle tube joins the center housing. You'll see either the number 27 or 44, (there are others, but that's probably what you'll find). If it's the 27, you're gonna be limited on performance, it's just not as strong as ya need. The way to tell right away if it's a TT rear is to pull the fill plug and if it looks like it will be hard to put gear lube in it, it's a TT, (the hole will be partially blocked by the clutch pack housing).

The model 44 Dana rear ends are out there, pretty easy to find and go for about $300.00, still a deal. The later 44 Dana rears will slap right into your Lark, same width, have the right pinion angle, and even your driveshaft will work, (IF you're using the automatic as the 44 moves the front yoke into the tranny about an inch).

Also, most 44 Dana rears have tapered axles, but the '65 & '66 Larks had 44 Danas with non-tapered axles. Those rears are expensive and hard to come by.

You can put higher ratio gears into the "smaller" 44 housing up to 3.89, (if I remember correctly), but anything above that you'll have to find a 44 rear end that already had the high ratio gears.

In any event, please keep us updated on the progress with your Lark. It's always great to hear that another Studebaker is out there whoopin' butt! [^]

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Roscomacaw
12-25-2004, 04:16 PM
I have it on good authority that flanged axles for the Tapered axle 44 rears are gonna be a reality soon. Stay tuned! [:0]

Miscreant at large.

gasser
12-25-2004, 04:41 PM
thanks for hte help:D

gasser
12-25-2004, 04:43 PM
Another question. I just went out and looked and I have a dana 44 so my question is, where can I get a lower gear set? thanks again.

Transtar60
12-25-2004, 05:27 PM
Gasser as far as ring and pinion is concerned a DANA 44 is a DANA 44.

http://www.ring-pinion.com/ is a source.

gasser
12-25-2004, 05:35 PM
thanks. they sell 4:56 gear set that will fit the smaller (3:70 and lower) 44's. Im ordering a set monday:D

Transtar60
12-25-2004, 05:42 PM
They have been used in Jeeps Studebakers Chryslers Fords and Chevy s upon occasion. I think the "carrier" break is around 3.9x
Most guys are trying to go the opposite direction, so somebody may have a used set out there somewhere.

gasser
12-25-2004, 07:59 PM
well I just got off the phone with a friend and he thinks Im going to deep by choosing 4:56 with my gear selection. The gear sets available are 3:73, 4:09, and 4:56. what gear set do you guys think would be best for a street machine that will get driven almost daily(whenever its dry, cause radir slicks dont like rain[:p]) this is for a well built 259 backed by a 3spd o.d. in a '60 lark 2dr. thanks again.

studegary
12-25-2004, 09:00 PM
IMHO, 3.54:1 or 3.73:1 with Twin Traction (positive traction, commonly referred to as Positraction). What ratio do you have in the car now? These third members (differentials, rear ends) are quite common and good used ones should be available reasonably. It is much easier to change a whole rear than to replace the ring and pinion in an existing unit (my opinion).

Sonny
12-25-2004, 09:37 PM
quote:Originally posted by gasser

Another question. I just went out and looked and I have a dana 44 so my question is, where can I get a lower gear set? thanks again.


You lucky dawg! :) That 44 must have been ordered off the option list or somebody already changed it!

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Sonny
12-25-2004, 09:46 PM
quote:Originally posted by gasser

well I just got off the phone with a friend and he thinks Im going to deep by choosing 4:56 with my gear selection. The gear sets available are 3:73, 4:09, and 4:56. what gear set do you guys think would be best for a street machine that will get driven almost daily(whenever its dry, cause radir slicks dont like rain[:p]) this is for a well built 259 backed by a 3spd o.d. in a '60 lark 2dr. thanks again.


I have the Stude Fliteomatic and I'm real happy with the 3.54. It starts out in second gear if I just leave it in "D", but it really gets it on if I start out in "L".

As far as a 3 speed with OD, I'd say 4.09 should make you pretty happy, as long as that OD is working fine. The daily driver thing would be the limiting factor. If you were gonna use it just for street racing, the 4.56 would be my choice. In any event, that 259 will be happy as a Lark, (pun intended [:p]), at around 3200 to 3500 rpm, all day long. Oh, you are planning on using traction bars, right?

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

gasser
12-25-2004, 10:04 PM
I dont know what ratio I have I couldnt find a marking or tag. I know the rear end came out of a lark wagon. Im not gonna be using traction bars but im using a 4-link/trailing arm setup I built. Ive ran the same setup on a 351w powered comet and it worked great. right now Im leaning towards the 4:09 but may use a 3:73. I think I'll have to toss a coin;)

Sonny
12-25-2004, 10:31 PM
quote:Originally posted by gasser

I dont know what ratio I have I couldnt find a marking or tag. I know the rear end came out of a lark wagon. Im not gonna be using traction bars but im using a 4-link/trailing arm setup I built. Ive ran the same setup on a 351w powered comet and it worked great. right now Im leaning towards the 4:09 but may use a 3:73. I think I'll have to toss a coin;)


4 link? Schweeeeet! That'll hold it down quite nicely! [^] I dunno Gasser, I'm thinkin' that 4.09 would be Awfull nice with the OD. :D

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Transtar60
12-26-2004, 08:25 AM
Hey Gasser,
Before you start ordering stuff , maybe its time to pull the rear cover off that 44.

You might already have what your looking for! All 44 carriers(Dana 60) I have seen have a date of manufacturer and ratio code stamped into the carrier. Put the rear of the car up on jack stands , pull the cover,(have a drain pan under it), and carefully rotate a the carrier aroound until you find the date code and ratio code.

The ratio code will be a # over another #. Divide the top one w/ the bottom one and that will give you your ratio.

Roscomacaw
12-26-2004, 11:31 AM
Transtar's right about checking the gears for a ratio. By chance, did you look in the fill plug hole to see if it's a TT unit? In a TT unit, you can SEE the Twin Traction pack, right close to the fill hole. There were alot of them sold and you might just get lucky! Of course, if you pull the cover, you'll see that TT pack if it's there also.
4.09 would be great with OD. 3.54 gives about the best compromise for mileage and zip with a Flight-o or straight 3spd/4spd. ;)

Miscreant at large.

N8N
12-26-2004, 05:31 PM
I would stick with a 4.xx rear if you are going to stay with overdrive, although I probably wouldn't go as deep as a 4.56 unless you really want gears that low - but a 3.73 will be effectively a 2.61:1 in OD, that's airplane gears...

nate

--
62 Daytona hartop
64 Daytona convertible (in boxes)
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

studegary
12-27-2004, 02:35 PM
I guess that I have an airplane then <G>. The overall ratio of the six cylinder (not Studebaker) that I drive everyday is 2.08:1.

DEEPNHOCK
12-30-2004, 08:38 PM
The 4.09 will be a great choice with that overdrive trans. Quick off the line, and still good at highway speed in overdrive.
Loose the slicks. Save them for cruise night, or the Stude drags[}:)].
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by gasser

well I just got off the phone with a friend and he thinks Im going to deep by choosing 4:56 with my gear selection. The gear sets available are 3:73, 4:09, and 4:56. what gear set do you guys think would be best for a street machine that will get driven almost daily(whenever its dry, cause radir slicks dont like rain[:p]) this is for a well built 259 backed by a 3spd o.d. in a '60 lark 2dr. thanks again.


DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
'61 Hawk
'37 Coupe Express
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

DEEPNHOCK
12-30-2004, 08:49 PM
I'm curious about your link setup.
Usually, 4 links with leaf springs tend to bind up the suspension.
Stude did neat traction bars by using 'upper' bars on Super Hawks, some Larks and some Avanti's. I did something similar on my truck, using a pair od upper bars mimicking a 4 link setup, but still keeping the leaf springs. It is adjustable for 'instant center' (like that chunk of steel really cares <lol>) and does not bind up.
The truck launched hard, and straight. Doesn't spin much at all. Just goes. No major body lift, or dive. I am really happy with it.
Some pic's of the idea are at: http://community.webshots.com/album/42709364fffYOh/1
I'd like to see your idea's and find out how they worked.
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by gasser

I dont know what ratio I have I couldnt find a marking or tag. I know the rear end came out of a lark wagon. Im not gonna be using traction bars but im using a 4-link/trailing arm setup I built. Ive ran the same setup on a 351w powered comet and it worked great. right now Im leaning towards the 4:09 but may use a 3:73. I think I'll have to toss a coin;)


DEEPNHOCK@worldnet.att.net
'61 Hawk
'37 Coupe Express
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

N8N
12-30-2004, 11:56 PM
2.08:1? Geez, how many RPMs are you turning at cruise? I have no facts or figures to back this up, but I'd think with a Stude engine you'd want to be turning at least 2500 RPM at a comfortable cruise speed. Maybe I don't have my car tuned to perfection yet but it really has a noticeable increase in torque between 2500-3K. Now I have 3.31s with a straight 4-speed and that turns over 3K at cruise but the gear spread on the 4-speed isn't near as wide as it is on a 3/OD (don't want to go any lower numerically than a 3.31 because launching would be difficult.) Of course, I've ridden in cars with 4spd/3.73s and other than the sound of the engine being a little more hectic they don't seem to mind that much. I bet economy would be a little better if the RPMs were down some but what are you going to do?

In any case, I forsee absolutely no problems with the OP's plan of 4.09s with the 3/OD - that actually sounds like a great combination to me.

nate

--
62 Daytona hartop
64 Daytona convertible (in boxes)
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

studegary
12-31-2004, 02:02 PM
Nate - IIRC, it is turning 2000 rpm at 73 mph. I am not recommending the 2.08:1 overall ratio for a Studebaker V8. I am just stating that it is not unusual for a late model car to go beyond the 2.61:1 that you stated.

gasser
12-31-2004, 10:32 PM
My "4 link" setup uses 2 parallel bars that bolt to the bottom of the axle tubes and are parallel to the leaf springs and bolt to a bulk head at the front mount of both the leaf springs. the two other bars are bolted in by the same bulk head by the leaf spring and the other end of the bars are mounted on top of the pumpkin. so the outer bars are straight and on the bottom of the axle and the inner bars are on top of the pumpkin and form a triangle. this locates the rear so it also helped with handling and it also pervents twist and wheel hop. I dont have a digital cam but I'll try to borrow one and take some pics.

Transtar60
01-01-2005, 09:22 AM
Gasser did you pull the cover and check out what gears you have in there now???
The date code/gear set numbers will be on the part of the ring gear that bolts to the carrier.

gasser
01-05-2005, 12:58 PM
yeah, they are 3:54's. I just got another TT d44 for free out of a lark wagon, so im gonna pull the cover one of these nights and see what its packin'.

Transtar60
01-05-2005, 06:11 PM
Cool, well you can go as high as 3.9x without switching carriers on that one then.(best I can recall from ringandpinion.com's chart)

BTW Ted Harbit (tedharbit@aol.com) has those flanged axle kits coming out now if you want to convert from the tapered.

N8N
01-06-2005, 12:26 AM
a 3.54 is nice for a straight drive car (4-speed or auto) that's going to be driven in an "enthusiastic" manner...

nate

--
62 Daytona hartop
64 Daytona convertible (in boxes)
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Sonny
01-06-2005, 12:40 AM
quote:Originally posted by N8N

a 3.54 is nice for a straight drive car (4-speed or auto) that's going to be driven in an "enthusiastic" manner...

nate



Yep, that was my excuse Nate, but I discovered that home town policeman don't appreciate my enthusiasm! No ticket, but a very stern warning, and a compliment on the Lark! [8D] (I think he was just pissed because I had him by almost two cars out of the hole at the light!) How the hell was I supposed to know that detectives in unmarked cars can pull ya over? Have I mentioned that it's real easy to see the lights hidden in the grille? :D)

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

buddymander
01-21-2005, 12:17 AM
I wouldn't assume that any dana 44 ring and pinion would work for you in your dana 44 because most of the ones out there are in four wheel drive front axels, and the hyphoid gear angle is cut in the opposite direction than for a rear wheel drive car. Using the incorrect gearset will cause the teeth to mesh backwards resulting in breakage.

Transtar60
01-21-2005, 07:47 AM
There are many Dana 44 applications that are rear axle specific.
IE besides Studebaker, theres Jeep CJ's ,earlier J-series Jeep Trucks,early AMC cars, International Scouts and Trucks,some GM, Dodge, and Ford applications are front axle specific. But most of those will stipulate that they are for the front axle apps.

Leon
02-03-2005, 01:42 PM
Gasser- I'm one of those guys who is going higher. I rebuilt the Dana 44 in my Champ truck a few years back with 4.10. But am now going to 3.54 or maybe 3.31. So I'll have a fairly new ring & pinion plus original carrier on the market soon if you're interested.

Kdancy
02-04-2005, 06:01 AM
Leon, what engine and trans does your T-cab have?

53commander HDTP
53 Champion HDTP
64 Champ long bed V8
64 GT