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desertdoc
12-16-2004, 10:15 AM
I just bought a 64 challenger. The body and frame are excellent for restoration. It originally had a 6 cyl with 3 speed on the column. No drive train now. I would like to fix it up into a sleeper. Any recommendations on which engines will fit easily. Stude made a 289 and I was told the cars were built around a cadilac block at one point. Will a ford or gm small block v-8 fit easily? There is also a plate bolted to the center hump. Is this the access area to put in a manual transmission of the floor (option in 64?)

Thansk for your help
desertdoc

studegary
12-16-2004, 02:43 PM
As far as "...which engines will fit easily", that would be either a Studebaker 259 or 289 V8 and they would appear stock as well as give good performance (how good depends on modifications all the way up to a supercharger). Studebaker V8s were not "...built around a cadilac (sic) block...", but the design was based on the 1949 Cadillac V8.

desertdoc
12-18-2004, 12:55 AM
I totally understand that a Studebaker motor would fit quite well, in fact perfectly. What I was asking was what other motors would work. Due to the fact that a 64 challenger is not worth a whole lot, I really see no reason to drop a large sum of cash on a motor that is honestly average. I respect the fact that a lot of the gentlemen in this forum are restoration oriented. I just want a running car with some cahones. If any of the guys out there that have modified their Stude would like to give me some advise I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks

N8N
12-18-2004, 08:02 AM
desertdoc,

First of all, let me say that I don't disagree with your right to modify your car, especially when you're buying a car sans drivetrain. That said, however, Gary is right that a Stude motor really is the easiest swap, and don't underestimate the 289 - even a standard 289 is a strong motor in terms of everyday driving. It has a lot of torque, which makes it feel faster than it really is.

If you simply *must* swap, the absolute easiest swap would be a chevy small block. You can get the frame mounts from a '65 or '66 and then the only issue that you would have would be how to mount the transmission (the Chevybakers used a special bellhousing to retain the Borg Warner transmission, if you're not keeping the car stock there's no need to search out rare parts though.)

Another swap that sounds interesting to me would be a Cadillac 429, 472 or 500ci engine. I like the Caddy motor a lot more than the Chevy in terms of design and construction, and even though it's "mild" in tune, it's got lots of cubes and isn't much heavier than the SBC - probably about the same as the Stude 289, although I don't know about that for sure. The Caddy motor would obviously require some custom work to mount but I know it has been successfully swapped into Hawks before; not sure if it is longer enough than a Stude or SBC that it would be a problem in the shorter Lark engine bay. I believe Calvin (OCF) is still working on a '53 or '54 coupe with a 500ci Caddy, he might be a good person to get in touch with. I think he only watches the newsgroup though, not the forums.

Finally, I have seen several Studes, but again, all C-K bodies, using a MoPar LA block engine (273, 318, 340 or 360) which is a very nice little engine, I don't know how much work is required to mount it however.

Personally, I would try to find a good running 259 or 289 and just drop it in, but that's just me - I'm lazy, and the Stude engine really does have some advantages over much more modern engines, like high nickel blocks and forged cranks, etc. If you want more, you can always go with an R-motor. I happen to know where there's an R-1 "clone" sitting on a garage floor, where are you?

nate

--
62 Daytona hartop
64 Daytona convertible (in boxes)
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Roscomacaw
12-18-2004, 11:28 AM
Doc,

I've always been a proponent of Stude power whenever possible. It makes sense and it makes for a real Stude.
The V8 they had was hardly a "knock-off" of a GM product. It was Studebaker and is as much so as a gutted shell of one. Of course, I DO concede that it's YOUR vehicle - not mine, not Studebaker's - yours.
But I suggest you go to Racingstudebakers.com and look at a certain '64 Challenger commonly known as "The Plain Brown Wrapper". This car has been setting the world of Muscle Cars on it's ear of late. BIG-time!
Enthusiasts are fascinated that a lowly Studebaker such as this could blow away the Big 3 big blocks when configured exactly as you could buy one in 1964. No fat, grabby tires - no nitrous - no race-prepared darling of a "pray-it-holds-together" engine or any of that other enhancement stuff. Just a stripped, non-glamorous sedan with a factory supercharged 304cu,in. V8 to propell it. A simple little Studebaker Challenger. Challenging the established assumptions that they built second-class autos.[^]
Trust me on this.... You're gonna drive that thing to shows or cruise nites and the uninformed are gonna EXPECT an SBC when you pop the hood. [|)] But they're gonna be truly fascinated when they see it's the upstart Studebaker engine (blower or not) that's had performance afficianados whispering of late.;)
And imagine it ALL being engineered for you already! Such a deal.[:0]

Miscreant at large.

60 Hawk
12-18-2004, 02:04 PM
Back through the 60s we ran a 40 willys with a SBC of 301 and 327,FI,
and a Stude with a 289 stock engine with a 2 barrel carb.
We replaced the SBC's at least 4 times a season, throw away motors.
The Stude was retired after 5 years with the same motor that it started with, and still has the same motor today.
Going fast today takes more money than it did then. Your choice is up
to you, SBC motors are plentiful, ask yourself why.
Both cars turned in the low 13s, I know that's not fast for today,
but back then it was a respectable time. Five years of racing with the same motor means one tough motor. And the 289 has a wider power band than the SBC motor.
Anyway have all the fun you can with your Stude.

Transtar60
12-18-2004, 09:12 PM
Desert Doc not all enthusiasts of the Stude V8 are restorers. I personally like the Stude V8 for many reasons some of which have already been mentioned here. Mine have electronic ignition, late model Carter 4V carb, stainless steel exhausts and other mods. They are drivers, not restored.

If you decide on a brand x transplant, oldcarfart did a really neat and clean install of a 454 BB in a 59 Lark VI Wagon.

You can find him and other enthusiasts on alt.autos.studebaker

buddymander
12-18-2004, 11:14 PM
My first car was a 1960 Lark. I bought a 57 chrysler New Yorker and pulled out the 392 hemi and ordered a set of motor mounts from J. C. Whitney. Those were the days. But , get real, ya gotta run a SBC if you want good and easy resale. Any rear sump engine will clear the firewall and inner fenders. It;s the weird draglink steering the=at gets in the way. Stay away from chrysler big blocks, cuz the oil pump and filter make it a chore. Stay light, like SBC or 5.0 ford and retain manual steering, if ya got it, but that rearend is gonna shuck it's guts.

Cudaman
12-21-2004, 07:45 PM
Hey Desert Doc,
I've got this 318LA & 833 Trany that I was giong to stick in my beautiful 65 cuda then you can really get some serious HP out of that piece of junk. All you need to do is come up to OHIO to get it
"if it aint broke fix it anyway"
Cudaman

Cudaman
12-21-2004, 08:02 PM
desert doc,
I've got this LA 318 and 833 trany built that I was going to put in my beautiful cuda.Youcan put some serious HP in that piece of Indiana junk. You just need to come to OHIO to get it.
cudaman
"If it aint broke; fix it anyway";)

Roscomacaw
12-22-2004, 12:40 AM
Isn't it funny that a little ol' 304cu.in. piece of Indiana junk consistently blows all the Mofarts (and other make) stuff off the track at the Pure Stock Muscle Car Drags each year.[^]
Come to the Midland Michigan Motorplex track in September and see for yourself. [:0] It's a matter of putting your motor where your mouth is. ;)

Miscreant at large.

N8N
12-22-2004, 02:08 AM
I got no problems with MoPars, a 340/4-speed Duster is kind of like what Studebaker could have built had they a) stayed in business another decade and b) kept their focus on performance...

nate

--
62 Daytona hartop
64 Daytona convertible (in boxes)
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

desertdoc
12-22-2004, 01:51 PM
Sorry guys, that was my father busting my chops. He bought the cuda as an investment and now he can't unload that sad excuse for a car. He really wants a convertible Lark.

Roscomacaw
12-22-2004, 02:48 PM
Thanks for the insight, doc. At least dad has honorable aspirations as far as wanting a Stude ragtop! I know I love mine! [^]

Miscreant at large.

Cudaman
12-22-2004, 03:32 PM
NARC
You sap sucker wait till I get my hands on you I was going to have some fun withe these "Studeboys"
If it aint broke; fix it anyway
Cudaman[:p]

Sonny
12-22-2004, 10:10 PM
quote:Originally posted by desertdoc

I totally understand that a Studebaker motor would fit quite well, in fact perfectly. What I was asking was what other motors would work. Due to the fact that a 64 challenger is not worth a whole lot, I really see no reason to drop a large sum of cash on a motor that is honestly average. I respect the fact that a lot of the gentlemen in this forum are restoration oriented. I just want a running car with some cahones. If any of the guys out there that have modified their Stude would like to give me some advise I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks


Heh, heh... You must not be a heart doctor. :( Right up front, I'm not a strictly restoration oriented Studebaker gentleman. I particularly prefer the high performance aspects of Studebakers. I have modified Studebakers, although they're modified with all Studebaker parts.

There are LOTS of engines that would go into your Lark Doc. What Would you like to spend your money on? Actually, the better question is, how much do you want to spend? I feel strongly that you may be passing up a great opportunity. I think the BEST engine, the one that has had some awesome successes, and has definitely made believers of those others with the correct engine in their cars, has been a certain '64 Challenger that mops 'em up at the Pure Stock Muscle Car Drags, (not to mention a '63 Lark who raises hell amongst them too).

Heck, like Nate says, slap a Chevy right on in there. Lots of parts available, it's easy, and sounds like it'll be just what you're lookin' for. But before you make a final decision, please take a look here, http://racingstudebakers.com/team_one.htm.

I do think you're incorrect on a couple of counts though. The Challenger IS worth something, mebbe not the same *money* as a '64 Chebby, but to some of us, it's worth far exceeds it's value. Also, please do a bit of homework and you'll find that the strengths and capabilities of a Studebaker V8 is something like a best kept secret, except that all the racing records it has to it's credit are a bit tough to hide. ;) http://RacingStudebakers.com

I prefer to not be average, that's exactly why I'm a Studebaker kinda guy. Good luck and hope to see you Studebakering soon......



Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Cudaman
12-23-2004, 04:52 PM
DesertDoc
You know that the deduction for donated vehicles deadline is approaching soon. According to your "Studebuddies" that that thing will be worth a million. You should donate it to the blind and take the deduction, cause then no one would care what that ugly piece of junk looks like.
If it aint broke;fix it anyway
Cudaman:D

Roscomacaw
12-23-2004, 09:54 PM
Dear "Cudaman". The CORRECT spelling is "COMEDIAN". :D

Miscreant at large.

Cudaman
12-24-2004, 06:15 PM
GOOD COMEBACK-- I LIKE YOU ALREADY
If it ain't broke;fix it anyway
Cudaman[:p]