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cosmo
12-05-2004, 11:47 PM
i have a 63 stude lark, 3 on a tree, 170 ohv. i read the topic on the t-5 swap and am interested in finding out what would work best in my stude. i read the other site on the t-5 swap but am alittle confussed on some of it. i've never really worked on cars before and this is my first stude. i just think that i can utilize the power of my engine alot better if i had one more gear. i'm not sure if i should just order a trans for stude intl., or try to get one from a junkyard. i would even know which type of tran would fit my particular car. any ideas?

gordr
12-06-2004, 03:07 AM
As far as I know, SASCO still has NOS T96 overdrive transmissions to fit your Lark. Combine that with a higher ratio rear axle, say a 4:10 instead of the 3:73, and you will get the extra flexibilty you want, and do it all with stock Studebaker parts, which is about the cheapest and easiest way to accomplish this.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

Roscomacaw
12-06-2004, 09:36 AM
Gord's spot on with his ideas here. A T-5 swap is no bolt-on conversion. You're either gonna do most of the adaptation work yourself or pay DEARLY to have someone else do it for you and HOPE they have a clear vision of what you want and expect once all is said and done.
The T-96 W/Overdrive is probably better, flexibility-wise in the end PLUS!..... it's basically a bolt-in deal with ALL the engineering figured out for you by Studebaker and road and track proven by 40 years of use![:0]
Just GOTTA have a 5-speed? The T-96 OD is that TOO! Start in first, then shift to second and wind it up a bit until you hit 30MPH. Let off the gas for a moment, now you're in secondO/D. Take that out until it's time to go to third, then shift to third. As you do so, floor it and make the tranny drop back to 3rd, straight drive. Now wind it up again and then let off the gas for a moment and it drops into overdrive again. FIVE "gears" - count 'em! I drive my 57 Transtar like that all the time!;)

Miscreant at large.

cosmo
12-06-2004, 09:57 AM
what is SASCO and NOS? these are thing i read about from you guys but have no idea what they are. and where can i find a t-96 overdrive trans and rear axle?

Sonny
12-06-2004, 10:38 AM
This is SASCO, http://www.stude.com/sasco.html and NOS is New Old Stock Cosmo. New old stock means it's a real original part, made by the manufacturer, old and usually more expensive than a "repo" or "re-pop" part, (repo and re-pop are new parts, copies of the NOS stuff and usually cheaper). Call SASCO about your transmission and put a "Wanted" ad in the General category here for the rear end and tranny.

Great thing about our Studebakers is that there's still a LOT of NOS stuff out there, and usually can be had at pretty reasonable prices, (depending upon Which part it is, of course). You can expect any chromed or Hawk or Avanti NOS part to be VERY expensive. [:p]) Lark NOS body parts are a good example of reasonably priced parts.

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Roscomacaw
12-06-2004, 11:31 AM
Actualy, there's a fair chance SASCO would have an NOS rear of the right ratio as well! I think they have some of those 27 series Dana rear ends - in Twin Traction even. (Twin Traction,cosmo,also referred to here as "TT" is a posi-traction axle that provides positive traction at BOTH wheels in slippery situations)[^]

Miscreant at large.

Roscomacaw
12-06-2004, 01:53 PM
I just checked SASCO's site and they DO have some type 27 rear axles (as this car would have come with) They don't show any TT rears but they do show a NOS 3.73 for $210 and shipping. Heck, it costs that much to have a rear axle rebuilt - maybe more.
I found ONE seemingly suitable T-96:) OD tranny there. It sells for $568 and shipping.

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cosmo
12-06-2004, 02:14 PM
ihave a 3.73 rear axle i just looked at the tag. i, either going to fix this trans or get another cause i have a preety bad leak in it. i guess it's the front seal, where it conects with the engine. over the weakend i opened it up and the thing was bone dry. i refilled it with gear oil now i look under the car and there is grease all on the ground right underneath the connection[xx(]. please i need so good sugesstions of what to do. replace or fix? i called the guy at sasco and he didn't think i'd get much more out of the engine with a t-96, so if i stick with what i got i still have to have an over haul on it and replace all the seals and gaskets. what do you guys think??

Roscomacaw
12-06-2004, 06:52 PM
Ya know, Cosmo...... Your car already HAS a T-96 in it. It just doesn't have overdrive. Overdrive isn't just something like an extra piece of chrome trim. It really makes a difference in a car's roadability. There's several things to consider here:
First, your car, sweet as it is, is working with 170 cubic inches to churn out 112HP (At least that's what the factory rated it at - that's not to say that you're GETTING all that 112. It's just a figure to use for comparison.). That car you have, without overdrive, was probably sold to a customer that only used it to run city streets - without much, if any open road driving. In my 31 years of Studebaker driving, buyuing, what have you, I've noted that it's rare to find a stick shift Stude WITHOUT overdrive. The OD just adds so much to performance (NOT to be confused with power!) and driveability, that most Stude customers opted to have it.
If you're under the notion that you're gonna get more zip by going 5-speed or changing gears, I think you've got the wrong idea. You CAN have a faster take-off OR better hwy speeds to some extent by changing the rear gears. But you can't do that and improve BOTH. You hafta choose if you wanna take off faster or cruise at speed easier. A five-speed (unless 5th IS overdrive is still gonna give you that same limits of performance - just with more shifts to get from one limit to the other. Lots of folks LIKE to be busy with the shift lever. I understand that.
But having an overdrive sorta lets you "cheat" a little. It's like having TWO sets of rear gears instead of one.
The little 170 is a good engine when treated with respect. DO NOT let it overheat or it may never be right again. You CAN get more zip out of it by going to a 2-bbl carb and using an adapter to mount it. There are other little things you can do as well - right up to ading a turbo, although such a modification involves engineering it all yourself. There's no bolt-on kits for such.
Now whether or not to "rebuild" your tranny or not - that's a decision YOU have to make. Are YOU gonna do it? Do you feel qualified? If not then you're gonna have to find a tranny shop that'll handle it. Once they get over the shock of being confronted by a Studebaker - and you tell them it's just a Borg-Warner T-96 - they'll probably give you a price. Make sure you're sitting down when they tell you.[xx(]
Quite likely, all it needs is gaskets and a seal or two. These things aren't that expensive but then they don't install themselves either. And the tranny's got to come apart to put in this stuff, so we're back to you do it or pay someone to do it.:( You fix it and now you have a non-leaking tranny and still no change in performance.[|)]
IF you did go with a new T-96 OD (and you might find a good used one for WAY less than a new one!)[:0], you'd have to also incorporate a kickdown switch and a few extra wires to make it all work. It's not rocket science but it is a few details that have to be undertaken.;)

Miscreant at large.

Tom B
12-07-2004, 11:57 AM
To supplement Mr. Biggs comments, Cosmo, I just completed the switch from 3 spd to 3 spd OD in a 60 Lark six. It's the flathead and has less power than your OHV six. I also have a 4.10 rear axle.

The biggest problem I had was getting a transmission with the proper speedometer drive gear. Between the 4.10 and the 4.56 ratios, Studebaker used a different drive gear, the 3.73 to 4.10 has seven teeth and the 4.56 has 5 teeth. You will need to be certain you get one with the seven tooth gear, it's white plastic instead of steel. Otherwise it will destroy the driven speedometer gear.

When you get a used transmission, specify you also want the throttle linkage with the kickdown switch. Also verify that in 2nd or 3rd gear, the drive shaft will turn freely to the right and turn the input shaft when turned to the left. Otherwise, the over drive unit is fried.

Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'60 Lark VI

Roscomacaw
12-07-2004, 01:39 PM
Tom,Cosmo,
The accelerator linkage for stick shift and stick shift W/OD is the same. The provision for the kickdown switch is already there. You just need a switch and the few wires associated with it.
As to testing the tranny to see if it turns freely in one direction and not in the other, the little overdrive lever at the rear has to BE in the rearward position to accomplish that test or you'd get the notion the OD was bad.
In my initial response I forgot to mention that you also need an OD pull cable to control that little lever I referred to. Why did I forget that? - Because although I have such in the truck I drive, I almost NEVER touch that knob. There's no reason to as far as I'm concerned. It's in OD 99% of the time because that's the best way to drive the vehicle.
I know it sounds complicated, Cosmo, but we're dealing with a car here where there were no electronic "brain" boxes to do the operation of the vehicle in spite of the operator - so, it really ISN'T complicated, it's "basic". You had to have a rudimentary idea of how your car's controls affected it's performance when this car was new. And believe it or not - the "Mechanics" of the day actualy had to know HOW to diagnose a car's problems. They didn't rely on electronic gizmo-readouts to take the place of understanding. This car's really very basic transportation compared to today's cars. The proof is in simply looking beneath the hoods of the Lark and a late model auto.
Also, I wouldn't summarily pass over a particular transmission just because it has the wrong Speedo gear in it. Those little plastic gears can be changed.;)

Miscreant at large.

Tom B
12-07-2004, 02:16 PM
Just two more points. Once you have OD installed, NEVER NEVER park the car in any gear but reverse. It will roll in the others. Also, I had to accept that my speedometer reads 60 when I'm really going 63, that's as close as I can get in speedo gears with the 5 tooth gear drive.

Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'60 Lark VI

Roscomacaw
12-07-2004, 03:16 PM
Of course, Tom, you COULD get in the habit of using the "parking brake" - but that's old fashioned![:0]

Miscreant at large.

cosmo
12-07-2004, 04:10 PM
thank you gyus for the help. ithink for now i'm just going to replace the seals and gaskets, the synchros for 2 and 3, bearigs. i found this supply in downtown, he deals in transmission rebuild and he has just about everything i'll need for 95 bucks. i've got my shop manuel, and i'll take it slow so i dont screw it up. i'm also going to start putting in that 2 bbl carb i got. i just have to figure out how i'm going to work the throttle. i think with this carb and a good tune up, 120v alt, and some rwireing i'll have some good horse power with strong firing.

Tom B
12-08-2004, 10:50 AM
Right, I forget that because mine has become an 'emergency brake only'. The pawl that keeps it out has come loose from the spring that holds the pawl in place and while I can stop the car with the brake, I can't be sure of it staying there. Park in reverse, then I don't have to wonder.

Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe
'60 Lark VI

N8N
12-08-2004, 03:08 PM
Tom,

the pawl and spring are easily replaceable once you get the front cable and handle assembly out of the car. Hardest part is undoing the clevis on the front cable so you can pull it through the firewall, things tend to get rusty under there. Also you will need to pull up the driver's side carpet to get at the nut for the little hook that holds the cable to the floorpan, right by the gas pedal bolts. That part of the job is a lot easier with a helper. I did exactly the repair you need on my 62 Lark and it was a non-event overall. Just lay the handle assembly on the bench and drive out the little pin with a pin punch, then you can remove the cable and pull the handle all the way out. then put in the new spring and assembly is as they say the reverse of disassembly.

I think one of the vendors carries the little spring in their catalog for some cheap price - under $5 IIRC. I want to say it was SI but I can't recall and don't have my reading material in front of me right now.

good luck,

nate

(with fully functional parking brake)