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dan0
12-05-2004, 02:05 PM
New guy here; Hello!
I have a 53 2R11 that I drive daily. It has the Commander 6 and a 4 sp. Is there any way to change the rear end ears to get a little more top-end from the vehicle? It does ok and I'm not complaining, I would like to slow the engine down a little on the road...
thanks:)
dan-

Roscomacaw
12-05-2004, 02:39 PM
Ya know, Dan - you could change the rear gears. But it won't yield THAT much of a difference on the road. How about installing a 3-spd Overdrive tranny[?] Now THERE'S versatility! Low gears for working and high gears for cruising. And you don't have to touch the rear end to get this effect. That Commander 6 LOVES to work thru an overdrive;)

Miscreant at large.

Sonny
12-05-2004, 05:02 PM
Yep, what Bob said! :D For a pickup, overdrive is the greatest thing since sliced bread. :) Luckily, the OD transmissions aren't too hard to find. If you don't really use your truck as a truck, (no real heavy hauling), you can slap a much lower rear gear in it. If you want to get down to something like a 3.07 rear gear for interstate driving you'll have to change axle housings, the real low number gear sets won't work in high number gear set housings. But, a fairly simple, straight forward, change to a three speed with overdrive let's you keep your "truckin' capability" AND drive it on the interstate. [^] Keep us posted on what ya do, OK Dan?

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Roscomacaw
12-05-2004, 08:36 PM
Also, the Big 6s used T-86 OD tranny's and SHOULD be easier to find than what was used behind the V8 trucks. In fact, whilst looking for something else this evening, I stumbled across (literally) a T-86 that I believe is FOR a truck. I'd have to look at it closer.[8)]
AND - I just happen to have a couple of column shift quadrants (less the rods) to convert your floor shift 2R to column shift. The bonus you get is your sweetie can sit closer without havin' to dodge the shift lever!;)

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dan0
12-07-2004, 10:32 PM
Dudes!
Thanks for the replies!!!! I will begin searching starting tomorrow! Now there is a Studebaker trans that will bolt-in it seems. Are all the 3sp w/ OD electric shift into OD?? I surely do not wish to touch the rear end gears! Were all the three speeds w/OD "on the tree"? What about the pilot bearing, throwout bearing, clutch linkage, driveshaft, etc?
Looking foward to ya'll comments...
Oh, and BTW This 53 is a (short) daily driver here in Wichita, KS! Sure do get some looks.:D:D:D[:p][^] How can I post a pic?
-dan0

Sonny
12-07-2004, 11:14 PM
Hey Dan,

Yes, the three speed OD trannys are electric, and on the "tree", BUT, you'll much prefer it that way. Plus, there's a cable, (with a handle that goes under the dash), that allows a fella to engage/disengage the OD feature.

As far as the extra stuff, (needed to swap them), I'm not real familiar in that area, but as you can see, we have those experts right here. I think you'll find that you'll get the help you need to get it swapped. Bob is checking to see if he has a tranny for you and he's VERY knowledgeable about how to do the swap. Hang in there, we'll get it done! :)

To post a pic, you have to have it posted on an active server somewhere already. If you want, you can put it on my server here, http://racingstudebakers.com/coppermine/index.php, then right click on the picture when you have it posted, click "properties", copy picture's the web address, (starts with http://.....), look at the top of the box where you type questions and answers here, for the "Insert URL" icon, click on that, right click in between the two http://RacingStudebakers.com

Roscomacaw
12-07-2004, 11:16 PM
Yes, they go into OD without you actualy shifting anything. That's why they called it "automatic overdrive". Once you get up to 30 MPH (doesn't matter if you're in 2nd or 3rd) and let off the throttle momentarily, the tranny drops into OD. It's great! This is what I have in my Stude truck and it's so much better than just a straight 3 or 4 speed!
You didn't say what part of the USA you're in. Do tell.
There were no 3-spd floor shift W/OD made but it CAN be done by finding a T-86 tranny that some Jeeps used. From said Jeep, you can scavenge the floor shifter and adapt it to your truck's T-86 pretty easy.
Like I said, I have a good part of the column shift setup and it'll bolt right onto your existing steering column. If it hadn't been pouring out all day, I'd have looked to see if that tranny I saw was the right one. MAybe tomorrow.[8D]

Miscreant at large.

railway
12-07-2004, 11:37 PM
[quote]Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Yes, they go into OD without you actualy shifting anything. That's why they called it "automatic overdrive". Once you get up to 30 MPH (doesn't matter if you're in 2nd or 3rd) and let off the throttle momentarily, the tranny drops into OD. It's great! This is what I have in my Stude truck and it's so much better than just a straight 3 or 4 speed!
You didn't say what part of the USA you're in. Do tell.
There were no 3-spd floor shift W/OD made but it CAN be done by finding a T-86 tranny that some Jeeps used. From said Jeep, you can scavenge the floor shifter and adapt it to your truck's T-86 pretty easy.
Like I said, I have a good part of the column shift setup and it'll bolt right onto your existing steering column. If it hadn't been pouring out all day, I'd have looked to see if that tranny I saw was the right one. MAybe tomorrow.[8D]

Miscreant at large.

Funny in a way. I did it the other way around. I put a 3/speed w/od out of a Studebaker into a Jeep. Lucky for me the Jeep had the shifter on the tree. and the only changes made were to change the in-put shaft, and change the tail shaft yoke. Used the Studebaker relay and wiring loom. About the hardest part was mounting the kickdown switch.

Ebon...

Oldcals
12-08-2004, 03:24 PM
I'm doing just the opposite of what the others said! I am putting the T86 with overdrive in my M5 pickup but I am removing the shift arms and installing the top shifter from a T90 tranny. I much prefer the floor shift setup. It takes just a bit of doing so that the tranny will still shift itself out of overdrive when you go into reverse but Gord Richmond assures me that even an idiot like me can do it.
If Bob can't come up with a spare tranny I have 3 of them in my shop. One is still attached to the 245 that it came with. The top shifters from the T90s are usually available from the older Jeeps. One of our yards here has about a dozen of them and they want $65.00 for each. I think the standard 3 speed in the M5 is also the T90. Fred

dan0
12-08-2004, 05:49 PM
Guys- Railway:
I'm in Wichita, Ks. The floor shift sounds more truck-like, you kinda lost me in the dust on using a Jeep trans. The thought of automatic OD is cool if it was reliable, are they? You know what? I think I have seen this cable-on-the-dash deal once. Someone steer me straight on how what the best, most reliable way to go is here, K? Also, were these OD's Sychronized? MAN OH MAN I hope so!!!!![^][8D] Right now I have a T-9 correct? It's a real rock.
Electric OD that's automatic, and a cable override, in case it will not disengage, I guess? Does having a 12V system pose a threat to the I assume 6V solonoid?
Railway, give me a holler what cha come up with![8D]
dan0

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

Roscomacaw
12-08-2004, 06:24 PM
Oldcals (Fred) knows what of he speaks. One of the tranny's he's got came from my "stuff". <G> Right Fred?
These T-96s have a synchro for 2nd and 3rd but not 1st. And, truth be told, you'd be downshifting to 1st so rarely that it's not an issue. Besides, once you get the hang of driving with OD, you can get by without using the clutch except for initial get-away until you get to 30MPH and drop into OD.
VERY reliable! Very reliable. And they come in 6 or 12volt versions (actualy, only the relay and solenoid are voltage-sensitive)
Floor shift's nice but you DO have to do some mods to pull it off. It's relatively simple to do but certainly not "bolt-on". I had a complete unit set up for floor shift here until earlier this year. Sold it to someone back east tho.

Miscreant at large.

dan0
12-09-2004, 07:47 AM
Guys-
Is there a way to ID these tranny's? Number location, etc.? Correct me if I'm wrong, I'll need: trans, shift column parts, and to shorten my driveshaft, unless I find a truck here with all of these installed. Were they more common in the 2R...umm..10 (1/2 ton) models?
dan0

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

Oldcals
12-09-2004, 10:37 AM
Dan, I think you have it pretty much right. If you want to go with the floor shift you don't need to change into the column shift mode. Also (and I'm open to correction on this) you may need to find a cross member (part no. 666016) that mounts under the rear portion of the tranny as added support. I don't fully understand what all is totally necessary for the overdrives as I haven't yet installed mine. I have acquired over the years all the requisite parts (I hope) and sometime within the next year should be putting them all together.
Yup Bob, one of the trannys I have was attached to the 245 I got from you, one I bought in South Bend last spring and the other is attached to the 245 I recently bought from Jerry K. The tranny I am going to use is already rebuilt and awaiting installation so I effectively have 3 spares. By the way, I am going to have your old 245 resleeved and slowly do a rebuild on it while running the 245 of Jerrys.
Dan, as I said before, if you want to go with the floor shifter I can get you one from our local jeep yard. According to Gordon the modifications are not all that tough and if you can't do them I bet your local tranny shop can. The shift lever and cap mounts in the existing 6 bolt holes where the top cover is normally bolted.

Sorry for the rambling reply but it's early in the morning and my brain hasn't yet got up to speed, that happens when you get old!!
Fred

Oldcals
12-09-2004, 10:46 AM
[:I]I forgot to say, Dan, that the tranny numbers are cast right into the case. I think the three speed overdrive is T86E-1A but that is from memory and I do suffer from CRS. There are also some letters and numbers stamped on the top near one corner that I know how to translate but for the moment don't trust my memory so I won't try to explain. They are the month, day, year and shift that the tranny was assembled. I believe the 2R parts book shows how to translate them.

Roscomacaw
12-09-2004, 11:54 AM
Well Fred, I'm glad to hear that old 245 is gonna live again. Makes me feel good that I made a seperate trip to bring it home.[^]

As to the crossmember, Dan shouldn't have to change it out. They're the same - OD or not. In fact, that number you gave (666016), I can't even find such a number in the master parts price list nor the 2R parts book. [|)]
As you say, the embossed designator is on the side of the main transmission case. I believe T-86E-1A is right but I think it's gonna be that wether or not it's OD or straight 3-spd.
Dan, further back on an OD tranny, you'll find R10 embossed on the side of the OD section (tailhousing in essence). Quite likely, it'll have the round governor switch hanging off the right, rearmost portion of the OD section or at least a treaded hole where said governor screws into. BTW - it's this governor that really provides the "automatic" in automatic overdrive. It's really just a centrifugal switch that simply provides a ground and thereby actuates the OD circuit once sufficient speed is achieved to close the centrifugal contacts in the governor.;)
There's another section between the main case and the OD section that houses the blocker ring and pawl associated with the OD. It's not even an inch thick, but that's what the OD solenoid mounts to. Said solenoid is bigger than the aforementioned governor and hangs off to the left side. It may have 2 or 3 terminals on it depending on what vintage vehicle the tranny came from.:)

Miscreant at large.

Oldcals
12-09-2004, 02:25 PM
You are more than likely right about the crossmember Bob. The M series doesn't have a transmission support crossmember for the rear of the tranny unless it is an overdrive, then you need the part that I quoted before. Very likely the later pickups came with it in place. I found the crossmember for mine on a pickup in Arizona and had a few more made. They are all gone now except the two that I will be using. They are such a light duty crossmember that they actually are identical to the crossmember that comes with the underbed spare mount. The only difference is a small cradle that sits in the middle of the crossmember that the tranny tail rests on. I got the part number from the 1501 section of the M series parts book. Fred

Roscomacaw
12-09-2004, 04:54 PM
Well Fred,

That explains it! I only checked for that number in the 2R parts book and, as I stated, in the parts price list book. Trouble is, the Parts Price book is from SASCO of 1970. Probably by then those earlier crossmembers were long gone!

Miscreant at large.

dan0
12-09-2004, 06:18 PM
Old Cals-
OK. I have located here nearby a source for some trans parts and will investigae Sat, will advise!
Thank you all for the info- I'll be back!
Now I may have CRS as well[:o)], becuz I had my Commander 6 bored .030. I did not see where it could be sleeved[:0]. Curious..and off topic!!
dan0

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

Oldcals
12-10-2004, 12:57 AM
Dan, By all means, keep us advised. Between Bob, Ebon, Gord Richmond and myself with help from whoever else chimes in we can get you set up with overdrive. I for sure don't understand all I know about these trannys but I bet by the time I finish I will. Gordon told me he had some pictures of how to convert the column (side) shifters to a top loader and I'll probably soon be asking him for them.
If you have questions that you don't want to go public with or just want to BS, email me and I'll either get an answer for you or tell you who to contact. email is fredwcook(at)aol(dot)com. I don't get a chance to read this forum every day so sometimes I may not see what is posted.
The 245 that I got from Bob had a shattered piston and the cylinder wall was badly gouged. My local machine shop tells me that overboring and sleeving the cylinder is a routine procedure so I'll probably let them go ahead and do it. At least that way they will clean the block and I can avoid some of the dirty work. Fred

dan0
12-11-2004, 02:53 PM
Well gang I found an setup for 500.00. What do you all think?
Trans
Bellhousing
D-Shaft
Switch for throttle
Column shift assy
Is there supposed to be a X-member???
dan0

Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

Sonny
12-11-2004, 06:51 PM
Sounds like a good deal to me, all the stuff that ya need. No X-member needed.

Sonny
http://RacingStudebakers.com

Roscomacaw
12-16-2004, 02:42 PM
danO,
Yesterday I saw a T-86 O/D Studebaker trans on ebay. Danged thing even had a truck-lookin', aftermarket floor shifter on it. Might be what you're lookin' for to avoid the column shift stuff! ;)

Miscreant at large.

dan0
12-16-2004, 09:03 PM
Mr Biggs-
Get a chance send me the #, [please]
thanx
dan0


Stuff:
1941 M15...retirement project
1953 2R11... daily ride
2001 F-350 Super Duty Lariat to haul it all..
1989 Caprice Classic Brougham
Sexy! 67' John Deere 112H

Roscomacaw
12-17-2004, 03:08 PM
I've E-mailed you the link to that auction. Of course, I know nothing about the quality of this particular unit, so I'm not ADVISING you to buy IT. Just making you aware of it so you can consider it. <G> ;)

Miscreant at large.

gordr
12-19-2004, 03:51 AM
Gord Richmond here,

I think I do have pix of the top cover I converted, which I can e-mail to anyone who wants them. I used the top cover off a Scout T90 tranny. I understand that the top cover off an M5 floor shift tranny will also work.

Basically, to convert the T86 to floor shift: remove the existing shift forks, shafts, levers, and detent balls and spring, and plug the holes in the case with Welch plugs. This means you have to fully disassemble the tranny, but it'd be nice to treat it to a new set of bearings anyway, right? Then take your Jeep/Scout/M5 top cover (make sure it fits the top of the tranny case; the one I had simply bolted right on, but I have heard where you had to re-drill one of the three pairs of holes) and weld a "finger" to the bottom left part of the first-reverse shift fork so that it will push back on the overdrive shift rail when you select reverse. I have a pic of that mod. What you want to do BEFORE tearing down the tranny is carefully measure how far the cam on the first-reverse shift shaft moves the OD shift rail, and build the "finger" to duplicate that movement. You can readily see the cam do it's thing with the top cover off the tranny.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands