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Radsman
02-26-2007, 07:39 PM
I've been reading the posts this evening on the bottle decal that Bondo has now done, which looks great and has been well accepted by the group. So it got be to thinking, what would be, say the top 5 parts for a Hawk that would be most wanted, but are not out there. The parts could be rare or not so rare like the year specific taillights for a '56, a bracket or the never seen (at least by me) the utility light accessory for either the trunk or under the hood. Maybe this will inspire someone with the talent to create something, i.e. brake drums???

DEEPNHOCK
02-26-2007, 07:54 PM
Sure thing!
You put up the cash, we can get it done;)
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by Radsman

I've been reading the posts this evening on the bottle decal that Bondo has now done, which looks great and has been well accepted by the group. So it got be to thinking, what would be, say the top 5 parts for a Hawk that would be most wanted, but are not out there. The parts could be rare or not so rare like the year specific taillights for a '56, a bracket or the never seen (at least by me) the utility light accessory for either the trunk or under the hood. Maybe this will inspire someone with the talent to create something, i.e. brake drums???


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

DEEPNHOCK
02-26-2007, 07:54 PM
Sure thing!
You put up the cash, we can get it done;)
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by Radsman

I've been reading the posts this evening on the bottle decal that Bondo has now done, which looks great and has been well accepted by the group. So it got be to thinking, what would be, say the top 5 parts for a Hawk that would be most wanted, but are not out there. The parts could be rare or not so rare like the year specific taillights for a '56, a bracket or the never seen (at least by me) the utility light accessory for either the trunk or under the hood. Maybe this will inspire someone with the talent to create something, i.e. brake drums???


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

52 Ragtop
02-26-2007, 10:07 PM
Yeah Brake drums! When I had some done, all I got at swap meets WOW! glad somebodys doing them. After they were done it was, "Well, now I know where to get them" So, I'm sure glad that I was able to talk the guy into doing ONLY 50 drums, instead of 500 like he wanted me to do. It took almost 2.5 years to sell 50!
And finned brake drums is just about what everybody needs, unless of course they convert to front and rear discs! <G>
If I would have done the 500 drums, I would have invested almost $40K, and that is UP FRONT money! Doing the math, it would take 25 years to sell them, not a good investment. But, if anyone is willing to front the $$ for something, let me know, and we'll talk.
It's really tough to make something in a small quantity, and expect to get a "quick" return, because of all the R & D that goes into something. When I make another bracket, it usually takes 4-6 before I'm happy with the results, Only then do a few sets go out for the real tests! Then usually 3 or 4 more changes are made, and guess who pays for all of the "prototypes, tooling changes, and test parts? And again, that's all up front, so, by the time one of my products hits the street, I've already got a lot of time and $$ into it.

Jim

52 Ragtop
02-26-2007, 10:07 PM
Yeah Brake drums! When I had some done, all I got at swap meets WOW! glad somebodys doing them. After they were done it was, "Well, now I know where to get them" So, I'm sure glad that I was able to talk the guy into doing ONLY 50 drums, instead of 500 like he wanted me to do. It took almost 2.5 years to sell 50!
And finned brake drums is just about what everybody needs, unless of course they convert to front and rear discs! <G>
If I would have done the 500 drums, I would have invested almost $40K, and that is UP FRONT money! Doing the math, it would take 25 years to sell them, not a good investment. But, if anyone is willing to front the $$ for something, let me know, and we'll talk.
It's really tough to make something in a small quantity, and expect to get a "quick" return, because of all the R & D that goes into something. When I make another bracket, it usually takes 4-6 before I'm happy with the results, Only then do a few sets go out for the real tests! Then usually 3 or 4 more changes are made, and guess who pays for all of the "prototypes, tooling changes, and test parts? And again, that's all up front, so, by the time one of my products hits the street, I've already got a lot of time and $$ into it.

Jim

JDP
02-26-2007, 10:25 PM
Same thing happened to all the parts I repro'ed, I got lots of "great, now I know where to get them when I'm ready" When I finally broke even, it took me 3 years. Now. I'd rather put 8K in a car and flip it for a quick profit then risk another repro project. All the easy, profitable stuff is being done, most of the rest has tolling costs that make it impossible.

64 Commander 2 dr.
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
62 GT Hawk 4 speed
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
02-26-2007, 10:25 PM
Same thing happened to all the parts I repro'ed, I got lots of "great, now I know where to get them when I'm ready" When I finally broke even, it took me 3 years. Now. I'd rather put 8K in a car and flip it for a quick profit then risk another repro project. All the easy, profitable stuff is being done, most of the rest has tolling costs that make it impossible.

64 Commander 2 dr.
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
62 GT Hawk 4 speed
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

Dick Steinkamp
02-26-2007, 10:44 PM
quote:Originally posted by Radsman
The parts could be rare or not so rare like the year specific taillights for a '56


The tooling for a diecast tail light body is around $25k in the US. Cheaper in China. How many '56 tail light bodys do you think you can sell? 20? 50? Even at 50 you'd have $500 each into tooling amortization plus production costs (maybe $100 each). You'd have to sell them for $800 each or so to make a profit. Go for it!



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
02-26-2007, 10:44 PM
quote:Originally posted by Radsman
The parts could be rare or not so rare like the year specific taillights for a '56


The tooling for a diecast tail light body is around $25k in the US. Cheaper in China. How many '56 tail light bodys do you think you can sell? 20? 50? Even at 50 you'd have $500 each into tooling amortization plus production costs (maybe $100 each). You'd have to sell them for $800 each or so to make a profit. Go for it!



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

N8N
02-27-2007, 05:28 AM
It's getting to the point where you can't find the '55-56 taillight housings for love nor money... in a couple years people will be paying $800 for "show chrome" replates anyway. I'm having a hard time finding plateable cores...

hurry up and someone repop them already!

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

N8N
02-27-2007, 05:28 AM
It's getting to the point where you can't find the '55-56 taillight housings for love nor money... in a couple years people will be paying $800 for "show chrome" replates anyway. I'm having a hard time finding plateable cores...

hurry up and someone repop them already!

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Studenut
02-27-2007, 08:38 PM
And how about grill shells for the '53 coupe?? I had a set of reproduction shells, bought many years ago, that I had saved for the eventual restoration of my coupe. Unwisely, I took them to my restorer long before the car was ready for them, and now he has "misplaced" them! A lesson here, if you are within easy driving distance of your restorer, don't take him items until the car is ready for them.

Jerry Buck
Racine, Wisconsin
'53 Champion Coupe - C (owned since 1956)
'61 Lark VI Convertible

Studenut
02-27-2007, 08:38 PM
And how about grill shells for the '53 coupe?? I had a set of reproduction shells, bought many years ago, that I had saved for the eventual restoration of my coupe. Unwisely, I took them to my restorer long before the car was ready for them, and now he has "misplaced" them! A lesson here, if you are within easy driving distance of your restorer, don't take him items until the car is ready for them.

Jerry Buck
Racine, Wisconsin
'53 Champion Coupe - C (owned since 1956)
'61 Lark VI Convertible

JDP
02-27-2007, 09:47 PM
dave T-Bow is buried in the 53-54 grill shell project. He's had them for years, but no one wants to pay the price for the ones he has.

64 Commander 2 dr.
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
62 GT Hawk 4 speed
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

JDP
02-27-2007, 09:47 PM
dave T-Bow is buried in the 53-54 grill shell project. He's had them for years, but no one wants to pay the price for the ones he has.

64 Commander 2 dr.
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
62 GT Hawk 4 speed
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

gordr
02-27-2007, 11:11 PM
The problem with many repro parts is that the cost of the tooling may well exceed the potential revenue that could be gained even if a part were sold to every potential buyer. Perhaps, for some items, the answer is to do away with the tooling costs. It should be possible to use an automated mill to actually sculpt a copy of some parts,either from a metal billet or a very rough casting.

Take the '53 grille shells for an example. You could cheaply sand-cast blanks from aluminum, thicker in all dimensions than the originals, and unfinished. Then use a 3-D duplicator mill to follow the exact contours of a perfect original, and mill the rough casting down to the exact dimensions and finish of the original. Once done, the digits could be stored, so subsequent copies could be made from a file.

When an order comes in, you take a couple of raw castings, run 'em through the mill, and send out for plating. Your up-front money is limited to the cost of making a few raw castings, and the time on the duplicating mill to copy the original. You wouldn't even have to necessarily own the duplicating mill, just contract for time on it. I'm assuming that duplicating mills exist that can copy parts to the degree of accuracy necessary for trim parts, of course. Maybe that's an erroneous assumption.

Here's a crazy idea: suppose SDC were to sponsor a deserving student to do an MBA thesis on the economics and technical aspects of auto parts reproduction? A sponsored student would be able to devote his/her full time to researching the technology available in today's marketplace, and to getting an understanding of what is/is not economically feasible, something that most of us who have jobs are unable to do. I think any student who did this as their project would have hot job prospects upon graduation, too. The knowledge gained would be applicable to many manufacturing ventures, not necessarily limited to doing repop Stude pieces.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

gordr
02-27-2007, 11:11 PM
The problem with many repro parts is that the cost of the tooling may well exceed the potential revenue that could be gained even if a part were sold to every potential buyer. Perhaps, for some items, the answer is to do away with the tooling costs. It should be possible to use an automated mill to actually sculpt a copy of some parts,either from a metal billet or a very rough casting.

Take the '53 grille shells for an example. You could cheaply sand-cast blanks from aluminum, thicker in all dimensions than the originals, and unfinished. Then use a 3-D duplicator mill to follow the exact contours of a perfect original, and mill the rough casting down to the exact dimensions and finish of the original. Once done, the digits could be stored, so subsequent copies could be made from a file.

When an order comes in, you take a couple of raw castings, run 'em through the mill, and send out for plating. Your up-front money is limited to the cost of making a few raw castings, and the time on the duplicating mill to copy the original. You wouldn't even have to necessarily own the duplicating mill, just contract for time on it. I'm assuming that duplicating mills exist that can copy parts to the degree of accuracy necessary for trim parts, of course. Maybe that's an erroneous assumption.

Here's a crazy idea: suppose SDC were to sponsor a deserving student to do an MBA thesis on the economics and technical aspects of auto parts reproduction? A sponsored student would be able to devote his/her full time to researching the technology available in today's marketplace, and to getting an understanding of what is/is not economically feasible, something that most of us who have jobs are unable to do. I think any student who did this as their project would have hot job prospects upon graduation, too. The knowledge gained would be applicable to many manufacturing ventures, not necessarily limited to doing repop Stude pieces.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

Dick Steinkamp
02-27-2007, 11:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by gordr
It should be possible to use an automated mill to actually sculpt a copy of some parts,either from a metal billet or a very rough casting.


That's essentially the process used to make the "tool" that is used in die casting parts like the grill surround.

A 3D cad/cam program is entered from actual blueprints or measurements

The cad/cam program is used to drive CNC and/or electrical discharge machines to "carve" a mold.

That's where the big bucks are...to make the mold. If every part was made using this process, costs would be actually higher than the cost to make the mold since you have plating, etc. afterwards.

I just leafed through a MoPar magazine with a zillion parts vendors. Everything imaginable including correctly date coded glass! It's tough to love these orphans :(

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
02-27-2007, 11:18 PM
quote:Originally posted by gordr
It should be possible to use an automated mill to actually sculpt a copy of some parts,either from a metal billet or a very rough casting.


That's essentially the process used to make the "tool" that is used in die casting parts like the grill surround.

A 3D cad/cam program is entered from actual blueprints or measurements

The cad/cam program is used to drive CNC and/or electrical discharge machines to "carve" a mold.

That's where the big bucks are...to make the mold. If every part was made using this process, costs would be actually higher than the cost to make the mold since you have plating, etc. afterwards.

I just leafed through a MoPar magazine with a zillion parts vendors. Everything imaginable including correctly date coded glass! It's tough to love these orphans :(

http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Scott
02-28-2007, 10:31 AM
I can do rapid prototypes in ABS plastic in my office. We use the FDM process and have two Stratasys machines. I can also design the parts in 3D using Solidworks from a real part or drawings. Going off a real part I can make measurements and be quite accurate.

Normally the machines are used to make prototypes, but since I can build a single part that means I can also do very small run production, too.

The parts are built in layers of .01", so if one looks closely a "grain" can be seen, but it can be smoothed and sanded and finished.
I can also get patterns made for silicon molds using similar processes (FDM is not the best for that, but I have access to other technologies with finer resolution).
It's interesting technology.

Scott
02-28-2007, 10:31 AM
I can do rapid prototypes in ABS plastic in my office. We use the FDM process and have two Stratasys machines. I can also design the parts in 3D using Solidworks from a real part or drawings. Going off a real part I can make measurements and be quite accurate.

Normally the machines are used to make prototypes, but since I can build a single part that means I can also do very small run production, too.

The parts are built in layers of .01", so if one looks closely a "grain" can be seen, but it can be smoothed and sanded and finished.
I can also get patterns made for silicon molds using similar processes (FDM is not the best for that, but I have access to other technologies with finer resolution).
It's interesting technology.

studegary
02-28-2007, 02:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

dave T-Bow is buried in the 53-54 grill shell project. He's had them for years, but no one wants to pay the price for the ones he has.



I think that the price is just one factor. Dave's grille shells are made out of brass/bronze and are VERY heavy.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

studegary
02-28-2007, 02:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by JDP

dave T-Bow is buried in the 53-54 grill shell project. He's had them for years, but no one wants to pay the price for the ones he has.



I think that the price is just one factor. Dave's grille shells are made out of brass/bronze and are VERY heavy.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

1959 DeLuxe pickup (restomod)

Radsman
02-28-2007, 07:47 PM
Given that the high production costs may be too prohibitive, still what would be the most desirable items on the wish I could get "repop list"Javascript:insertsmilie('[?]')

Radsman
02-28-2007, 07:47 PM
Given that the high production costs may be too prohibitive, still what would be the most desirable items on the wish I could get "repop list"Javascript:insertsmilie('[?]')

N8N
02-28-2007, 07:50 PM
fenders!

followed by any piece of chromed pot metal.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

N8N
02-28-2007, 07:50 PM
fenders!

followed by any piece of chromed pot metal.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

bondobilly
02-28-2007, 08:29 PM
I had the Shrock Brothers make 56J Gear Indicators. They cost me $45 each and I had a bear of a time selling the 12 or 15 that were made.

I had them cast a metal housing and a clear insert that had the special P R N 'D'L in it. The ones they made for me would never stress break. I know there are tons of 56J's out there, but guys would rather pay the $20 for an incorrect one rather than the $60 I was charging.

Take Tom and Dave's 56J wheel. Guys are putting anything they can on a car rather than a correct one.

As far as the 56 tail light housings, could you get by with making a generic one and then notching out for the J.?

I have a cousin who imports ladies clothing, I went to their website, and their major business is automobile parts. They are in China. I am wondering????????????//

http://www.bondobilly.com/1sdc.jpg SAVE THE STUDEBAKER.....SAVE THE WORLD. http://bondobilly.com http://mrsgstees.logomall.com/

bondobilly
02-28-2007, 08:29 PM
I had the Shrock Brothers make 56J Gear Indicators. They cost me $45 each and I had a bear of a time selling the 12 or 15 that were made.

I had them cast a metal housing and a clear insert that had the special P R N 'D'L in it. The ones they made for me would never stress break. I know there are tons of 56J's out there, but guys would rather pay the $20 for an incorrect one rather than the $60 I was charging.

Take Tom and Dave's 56J wheel. Guys are putting anything they can on a car rather than a correct one.

As far as the 56 tail light housings, could you get by with making a generic one and then notching out for the J.?

I have a cousin who imports ladies clothing, I went to their website, and their major business is automobile parts. They are in China. I am wondering????????????//

http://www.bondobilly.com/1sdc.jpg SAVE THE STUDEBAKER.....SAVE THE WORLD. http://bondobilly.com http://mrsgstees.logomall.com/