PDA

View Full Version : BEST PRIMER FOR PRICE



kpcoupe
02-24-2007, 09:26 AM
WHAT IS THE BEST PRIMER FOR THE PRICE?

Dick Steinkamp
02-24-2007, 11:13 AM
quote:Originally posted by kpcoupe

WHAT IS THE BEST PRIMER FOR THE PRICE?


I'm far from an expert, but I'll tell you what I know from my (very) limited experience.

We used PPG K36 on my Hawk (now in progress with the paint job). It was $150 a gallon plus another $60 for the required catalyst. PPG makes an Omni product that is less expensive, but it doesn't fill or sand as good as the K36.

I know there are inexpensive paint jobs (right down to the short nap roller method described here recently), but if you are putting a lot of time and/or money into the body work and paint prep, AND painting with a quality paint, saving a few bucks on the primer is probably not the way to go.

I'll have over 300 hours into the repaint of this Hawk...200 hours my (free :D) labor, and 100 hours of pro. The paint is $320 a gallon, the clear is $150 a gallon plus $15 for the clear reducer and $30 for the clear catalyst. You'll need to shoot some sealer before the primer and after blocking the primer before the base coat. That's about $150 a gallon and the same for the required hardner. Just for paint products, that is about $1000, not counting the sandpaper, tape, solvent, other reducers, DX330, and the other odds and ends you will need.

For me, saving a few bucks on the primer would not be a good decision.



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

blackhawk
02-24-2007, 11:39 AM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp...You'll need to shoot some sealer before the primer and after blocking the primer before the base coat...I am sure my painting experience is even more limited. I haven't painted anything for a few years so I am also probably not versed in the latest techniques. The last time I painted anything I used DuPont 615S Self-Etching Primer for the first coat of primer. Your post is the first I have heard of using a sealer before and after priming. It seems to me that a sealer under the primer would defeat the purpose of the self-etching primer. What am I missing? Tell me more. Thanks. Dale

Dick Steinkamp
02-24-2007, 01:04 PM
Dale,
The "sealer" we used is also known as a "self etching" primer". The primer we used is a "high build, sandable primer". We used the sealer on the bare metal and new body work before the sandable primer. You probably used what DuPont calls their "primer filler" over the 615S. I think we're saying the same thing.



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

52 Ragtop
02-24-2007, 09:23 PM
What ever you do, DO NOT MIX different manufacturers! and don't buy on price only!
We use DuPont at the shop, and after a BIG discount my paint bill (liquids only) is 18-20K a month.
If you mix manufacturers, the materials MAY not be compatable. Thus, after hours of work, 6 months later, the clear or the color is peeling! Then who do you call?
Dicks assement of cost is pretty accurate, and the sad part is, most of the primer ends up on the floor as sanding dust!
Use an etching primer on bare metal, then use a catalized primer to block, usually wet sanding with a block, (the longer the better) will show up all the imperfections. Most of all, DO NOT try to use primer to straighten a panle! Get the filler right before priming, and finish the filler off with a minimum of 120 grit sandpaper.
It took "lots" of hours to straighten out the 62 ragtop I bought 3 years ago, and it's still not quite finished! Body and paint is all done, just gotta' get the top done!

Jim

KGlowacky
02-24-2007, 11:24 PM
I have used both the omni and the ppg. I applied them on bare metal right after my cars were dipped. I was told this would prevent any rust forming. Put the ppg on a 69 Camero and let it sit under cover outside in Houston for over 6 months and not a bit of problem, painted it , has been Five years and still perfect. The Omni has been on for about 4 months and is looking good. My body man told this was the way to go since you could do body work over top of this. This is important because although you would grind and clean before appling bondo it would protect the areas you might miss. Good Luck.

Rob
02-25-2007, 12:42 AM
If you want the best it will cost you a little more(you get what you pay for). I`ve been painting now for 10 years at a dealership here in Ky. I have used PPG for quite sometime. We used K38, the problem with PPG is that after a period of time you will start to see sand scraches appear under the paint, other then that I have no problems with it.
The paint and primer we are using now is Martin Senour, the primer is called Complete Primer(sold at NAPA). This is the best primer I have ever used. It has a built in guide coat, it is very easy to sand, and no sand scraches will appear. I know this because I fixed my wifes car 2 years ago and there is no sign of sand scraches.
So my opinion is Martin Senour. Its what I`m putting on my 51` Commander.


Rob
1951 Commander
1950 Land Cruiser

Kdancy
02-25-2007, 07:11 AM
If you used any kind of rust prep on the bare steel be sure to check with the manufacturer as most will not allow the use of etch primer as the surface is already etched.
I use the PPG or Matrix epoxy primer, than use my fill and sand type primer over that for block work. I do like both the K36 and K38 and some other types of urethane block primers. Always allow the material to dry for several days or even weeks before topcoating if you don't have access to a baking booth. This will allow the solvents to work their way up thru the material. If done properly, you should not have a "sand scratch showing up" later problem.

Here is a good auto body paint forum-
http://autobodystore.com/forum/index.php

64V-K7
02-25-2007, 07:34 AM
I just did a car last November, after a 9-10 year respite with any painting. Last time around, used PPG products... Good but very expensive, compared to their stepchild, Omni. The finished product was far beyond my expectations...

Here's the product list for my Omni paint and general filler stuff
-----------------
Omni Epoxy primer over steel -MP170 / Omni hardener MH283

Evercoat Chromalite fill or All Metal epoxy fill

Omni 2K high Build Primer - MP282 / Omni hardener MH283

Evercoat Glazing compound /Block and fill as needed ( read this line 1000x)

Omni AU MBC acrylic Basecoat - MBC : MR series reducers
2-3 cts - 5-10 min between coats. / 20 min to clear (24 hours max)
Omni Medium Reducer MR186 with MBC basecoat

Omni AU High solids Fast Urethane Clear - MC260 / MC260 : MH168 hardener - 2-3 cts. dry to touch in 2 hours. Omni AU Fast Topcoat Hardener MH167

Don't forget a 3M mask, they're only $20

I also joined the forum at autobody.com. The help there is extremely good. The main site also has some very good products.
If you can see your way clear to do it, buy a new LVLP gun. I have one, made by Astro. These things make you a professional painter in 10 seconds, believe me. My compressor is a 30 year, 2HP sears and it wasn't even breathing hard..

Kdancy
02-25-2007, 08:39 AM
I've used both PPG and their Omni series. On the basecoat, you can use the PPG base (much better quality then the omni base)and clear it with the Omni clear. That is what my local supplier recommended,I've been using them since 1980 and he knows his products.
The newer Matrix brand is supposed to be the same material as PPG but at about a 30 to 40% savings.
http://www.matrixsystem.com/thematrixstory.html

Another very good option on the primer is XL Aerospace Primer. I've used it and can't tell a difference in the DP series by PPG. Used in the aircraft industry. Very good price and you can have them mix it in a color close to what you are going to final paint with.
http://www.midwestchemicals.com/index.asp?p=IndustrialCoatings#p6

blackhawk
02-25-2007, 01:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

Dale, The "sealer" we used is also known as a "self etching" primer". The primer we used is a "high build, sandable primer". We used the sealer on the bare metal and new body work before the sandable primer. You probably used what DuPont calls their "primer filler" over the 615S. I think we're saying the same thing.
Dick,

Thanks for the explanation. You are correct; we are saying the same thing. I did not know that self etching primer is also refered to as sealer. Also, as you said, I did use primer filler over the 615S. The label on the can that I have left over from the paint job says 1140S Primer-Filler. It requires a 1125S Activator.

I knew others would jump in and provide lots more info. Thanks guys. I am saving it all for later reference.

I only mentioned the DuPont product because it is what I had handy from the last paint job. I have used PPG products too but I don't have any sitting around at the moment. I wanted a part number for my response so you'd know exactly what I was referring to.

Jim - I have never mixed products from different manufacturers but thanks for the reminder. It never hurts to remind readers of that.

I am slowly getting my everyday driver ('64 Cruiser) ready to paint. It is a mess. The previous owner did a quicky paint job to sell it and that is causing a lot of extra work. There is little or no primer under the paint where he sanded down to bare metal. Consequently, those repair places are rusting. The worse part is he used laquer which has crazed over time letting water and salt get under the paint. I am taking off all that old paint because there is surface rust in all the craze marks. When I sand off the paint, I find additional rust that I couldn't see. I certainly am no expert at this, but even if the lacquer were good I question whether it is advisable to paint enamel over it. I'd end up with lacquer between to layers of enamel. Sanding it all off got really tedious so I switched to paint remover. This is a new one for me. I have always been able to sand the old paint and paint over it after fixing the bad spots. I knew what I was getting into when I bought the car, but it is a major headache nonetheless.

Dale