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View Full Version : The 1964 Hawk runs, video to prove it. UPDATE!



Milaca
03-23-2010, 11:44 PM
This is my first ever YouTube video! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYTd-MXJs2k
This is my 1964 Hawk with 70,xxx miles and I finally got the thing running this afternoon but it doesnt sound very good to me yet. The following are things I had to do to get it running.

First off, I put the battery charger on the brand new looking dead battery that came with the car on the low charger setting (10 amp) but it was still dead after 90 minutes. So I then set the charger on high (40 amp) and after half an hour of this, the battery began to take a charge! I then put it back to 10 amp charge and it continued to respond. I think the battery froze while in cold storage this winter but it seems fine now.

The fuel tank was disconnected from the fuel pump when I bought the car so I bypassed it and connected a riding lawnmower gas tank to supply gasoline to the fuel pump. I then got the engine to fire once or twice but the clear fuel filter wasnt filling up with gas so I replaced the fuel pump. Another reason for replacing the fuel pump was that I detected a large amount of gasoline in the crankcase and I thought gas may be leaking through the fuel pump. I replaced it with a known working used fuel pump that I had on the shelf. With that done, it still wasnt getting fuel. The lawnmower tank has a filter sock inside the tank and it was getting plugged with sediment and water. I cleaned out the tank but then the fitting began to leak so I found a gas can and converted it into a gas tank by inserting a gasline hose down the spout. Now it got fuel and it fired up but ran really terrible.

I then checked the plug wires for correct placement and found two wires on the wrong posts. I then fired up the engine and it still ran terrible. I then pulled off the cap and rotor (the previous owner installed new plugs, wires, cap, rotor and points) and was about to inspect the point contacts when I realized the points lacked spring tension. There was apparently a helper spring missing as the points had very little closing pressure. I just happened to have a new set of points on the shelf which I then installed. I fired up the engine again, and it still ran terrible.

I then loosened the lock bolt on the distributor and began to adjust it and found it ran best with it rotated counterclockwise as far as it would go (the vacuum advance hit the intake manifold so I couldnt rotate it any further). At this point, the engine sort of galloped up and down. I determined that the wires were on the cap correctly, but the distributor must be a cog or two off. So, I removed each wire from the cap and moved them counterclockwise one hole. Started the engine up and it ran much better, and I then fine tuned the orientation while it ran. However, it still doesnt sound great.

I then adjusted the automatic choke (which helped) and adjusted the mixture screws at the front base of the carburetor but I couldnt improve it any. The carb was wet on the outside leading me to believe the float was stuck open too far so I tapped the side of it, but nothing changed. I'm suspicious of this carb anyway being that the accelerator pump doesnt work at all. It appears to have been refurbished in recent years but I think I will install a new kit soon.

In conclusion, it runs but not great, and the water pump leaks like a canoe made of swiss cheese. While recording the video, I attempted to drive the car outside but the engine stalled each time I moved the auto transmission selector. Next week a rebuilt water pump should be here and I will do more to it then.

Please watch and listen to the video and give me any suggestions as to how I might get the engine to run better. The exhaust heat riser was rusted stuck, but I freed it up when I was under the car replacing the freeze plugs so I know thats open now. Might it still be ignition issues or is it more likely to be the carburetor? I havent checked compression yet, perhaps it has some stuck valves? After typing all of this, I realize I should have posted this under the Tech section. Sorry. :)

[img]http://far

bams50
03-24-2010, 12:01 AM
It clearly is laboring, like it's extremely retarded. If you're 100% sure the distributor is in right and the wires are right, I have to wonder if it has somehow jumped timing. You'd think if a gear was bad enough to jump a tooth it wouldn't run at all though. So it's likely a distributor issue. Doesn't sound like any exhaust blockage.

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.patrioticon.org/images/flag1-1.gif
GOD BLESS AMERICA

Milaca
03-24-2010, 12:13 AM
According to the paperwork that came with the car, a new distributor (I'm assuming it was new) was purchased from a former Studebaker dealer in 1974 for $15 and installation cost another $15. At this time the car had less than 65,000 miles and now it only has 70,xxx miles. I'm curious why the distributor was changed before 65,000 miles. Perhaps there has been something else wrong with this car for 36 years?? Maybe the distributor and valves are not in synch? It's a mystery thus far.

And you're correct Bams, no exhaust blockage here. :D The mufflers are no where to be found and so the exhaust exits under the floor. [8D]

Skinnys Garage
03-24-2010, 12:37 AM
Video was great, I'd say you're on the right path. I would get the carb cleaned out and working, check the valve lash, make sure the dwell is right first, then set timing and do final carb adjustments last. When you're setting the timing (vacuum unhooked), make sure to check condition of the distributor with your timing light. It should be smooth up and down with the RPM's if all the parts are in good shape. I'll have to try and get over there sometime to see all your projects, looks like you're having fun![8D]

http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu37/mytoygarage/f893982a.jpg
Skinny
Watertown, SD

Milaca
03-24-2010, 01:09 AM
I'll see about getting a carburetor kit for it this week. Once that is done, I can rule it out. It's running too rich as attested by the black soot that I blew out of my nose. :D

HAWK64
03-24-2010, 01:52 AM
Brent,
I would love to come back to Minnesota & make that '64 Hawk run like it should.

http://www.studebakercarclub.net/jim.jpg
"QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER"
MELBOURNE.

candbstudebakers
03-24-2010, 07:53 AM
I must be the horns.

Candbstudebakrs
Castro Valley,
California

http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv271/canbstudebakers/1953%20custom/IM001173.jpg

Milaca
03-25-2010, 06:08 PM
I discovered today why the accelerator pump in the carburetor wasn't squirting gasoline into the venturis. A previous owner installed a rebuild kit and installed a new pump outlet check ball under the pump discharge nozzle and forgot to remove the old existing check ball! After removing the new check ball, I looked down inside and saw this other check ball and it wouldnt come out as it was stuck. So I blew 90 psi of air into the pump inlet which then blew the stuck check ball out of the outlet.

Aside from that, all the passages seem clear and I adjusted the float level slightly and then reassembled it and put it back on the engine. I'll go back out now and remove the valve covers and check for any possible stuck valves being it sat for a long time. Other than that, I hope to have a rebuilt water pump next week for installation. And to make Bob Peterson happy, I will try to get the dual air horns functioning. :D
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4061/4425543419_248e277d32_m.jpg

Maynard
03-25-2010, 07:59 PM
Did you have that camera mounted to a helmet? If not, you did a good job with just one hand free. Oh, to have three hands.

11SecAvanti
03-26-2010, 09:37 AM
Nice progress. I had a 64 back in the 90's Sat for years but ran fine once I got the bugs out of it. The timing sounds retarded. Put a timing light on number 1 and get it flashing around 10-11 degrees BTDC at idle. These engines need more intial timing to respond well. Check the point dwell and quality of the points. Dwell should be between 27-32 degrees and stay in that range as rpm increases. Valve sounds fine. Probably ok on the lash but wouldn't hurt to double check. Should purr like a kitten once it gets new plugs, wires, points, and correct timing adjustment. May need carb work since it sat so long. Run a compression check to ascertain the sealing of the rings and or valves. Oil pressure is excellent. Divide and conqueor each issue. Good luck.

Start and Stage Your Studebakers

Milaca
03-27-2010, 11:21 PM
My rebuilt water pump came in yesterday and so I installed it right away. I fired it up (first time since reinstalling the carburetor) but it still ran bad. So I gapped the plugs, regapped the points (I dont have a dwell meter yet), made certain that all ignition wires were seated on the plugs and in the cap, readjusted the distributor (by ear, I need a timing light) and readjusted the choke so that it would run leaner. Fired it up....well, watch the videos and you will hear and see! ;) (The 2nd video is the best :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDIoInbaEj4&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhx8n2x5t58&feature=channel

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4433339561_ba2ae59231_t.jpg
A wild Red Hawk admiring it's reflection.
In the middle of Minnestudea

JGK 940
03-28-2010, 12:52 AM
Well, alrighty then! Rock on!

(Diggin' that aftermarket fuel cell [8D] )

Keoni Dibelka / HiloFoto
In Hawai'i; on Hawai'i; on the Windward Side
If da salt air never chew 'em up bumbye da lava will...

okc63avanti
03-28-2010, 12:55 AM
Much better !!! Me LIKES IT...

John

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/Profile/AvantionLift.jpghttp://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/Profile/jgheads_pandp.jpghttp://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/Profile/NewPistons.jpghttp://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/Profile/Headson.jpg
63R-2386 under restoration & modification

Chris_Dresbach
03-28-2010, 12:57 AM
RESTORE IT!!!;):D

Chris Dresbach
http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx323/chris_dresbach/Studebaker%201/ModelN-1-1.jpghttp://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx323/chris_dresbach/40champion-1-1.jpghttp://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx323/chris_dresbach/Studebaker%201/N10-1-1.jpg
1940 Champion two door.
Parts of the 1952 Model N
1960s Prototype cart

PlainBrownR2
03-28-2010, 01:06 AM
quote:
Well, alrighty then! Rock on!

(Diggin' that aftermarket fuel cell )


Considering the one I got for the '55 from Summit, and the design and construction of the gas can in the video, you're not too far off the mark with statement [:o)].

[IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010531-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
[IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010550-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
[IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
[IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

Milaca
03-28-2010, 01:17 AM
Funny story about that one gallon gas can....Last summer the neighbors across the road from me brought me this gas can that they found laying in the ditch on my side of the road, as they assumed it was mine (which it wasn't). I had just cut the tall grass in the road ditch with my flail mower which then made this buried 'treasure' visible. This thing had actual dirt in it as it must have been laying in the ditch a long time with the cap open.

I thought about throwing it away, but instead kept it in my garage and forgot about it. But when my lawnmower gas tank began to leak while using it on this car, I had to find an alternative temporary tank. I looked around and saw this filthy one gallon gas can begging me to be put into service! After an internal cleaning was completed, I put it to work and it actually works very well. :D

Milaca
03-28-2010, 09:11 PM
I took the '64 out for a spin tonight just before sundown. It fired right up and out the garage I went! I drove it onto the township road and put about 1-1/2 miles on it. I discovered that the transmission shifts good, the Twin-Traction works good, one of the air horns now works :D but the car handles a little squirrely with the power steering pump disconnected. Maybe the old nylon ply tires are affecting the handling more than the power steering being disconnected. Anyway, it put a big smile on my face and made the neighbors look at me (probably angry because I kicked up a lot of dust). :D

I adjusted the idle tonight also and now I think I will pull the gas tank off next and see what it looks like inside and see about getting a seal kit for the power steering ram. I bought this car to resell, but I'm tempted to keep it and sell the other Hawk being that this car runs so good....but it needs a lot of work. I'm thinking it would be fun to show it at local car shows in the condition that it's in. If or when I find that I can't make my house payment, I may then decide what to do. [8D]

Oh, and I drove the '63 Hawk to my relatives for an early Easter get-together. Gave 3 of the relation a ride in it. I'll keep you posted if they purchase a Studebaker because of this. :D
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4061/4425543419_248e277d32_m.jpg

In the middle of Minnestudea