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Ron Dame
02-12-2007, 07:21 PM
I only have the 1959 and up manuals, but am putting a 185 crank and pistons in my OHV 6...Is there any oreintation to the pistons? ie, are the pins offset?

Ron Dame
'63 Champ

Dwain G.
02-12-2007, 11:18 PM
Are you using original type T-slot pistons? The piston 'T' slots face away from the camshaft. Rods are numbereed 1 through 6. Small oil hole in rod big end should face camshaft side. Have you already notched the bottoms of each cylinder for clearance?

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.

Ron Dame
02-13-2007, 07:27 AM
These are the 185 pistons. They have shorter skirts, and are releived for the crank throws...no T slots, and no markings that I've found so far.



quote:Originally posted by Dwain G.

Are you using original type T-slot pistons? The piston 'T' slots face away from the camshaft. Rods are numbereed 1 through 6. Small oil hole in rod big end should face camshaft side. Have you already notched the bottoms of each cylinder for clearance?

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.



Ron Dame
'63 Champ

DEEPNHOCK
02-13-2007, 12:22 PM
Flat side up Ron;)
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by Ron Dame

I only have the 1959 and up manuals, but am putting a 185 crank and pistons in my OHV 6...Is there any oreintation to the pistons? ie, are the pins offset?

r1lark
02-13-2007, 02:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

Flat side up Ron;)
Jeff[8D]

<LOL>!!

Paul

Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html

Dwain G.
02-13-2007, 05:26 PM
So then these are an aftermarket piston of some kind? They should at least have a notch on the top edge of the piston or a small dimple near the edge. Lacking any marks at all, you will need to find the off-set, if any, and install the pistons with the pin off-set toward the thrust side of the cylinder. This means the 'light' side of the piston faces left (driver's side) or distributor side.
If you can't visually detect an offset try to find the heavy side of the piston by installing it loosely on the rod and letting it hang upside-down. Piston should tip to heavy side.
Or, on a flat surface, with a tee-square against the rod big end, measure the distance from surface to wrist pin. Flip the assembly over and measure the distance again.
The purpose of pin offset on these short shirt pistons is to minimize piston 'slap'.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.

Ron Dame
02-13-2007, 05:52 PM
Up? where's up?


quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

Flat side up Ron;)
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by Ron Dame

I only have the 1959 and up manuals, but am putting a 185 crank and pistons in my OHV 6...Is there any oreintation to the pistons? ie, are the pins offset?



Ron Dame
'63 Champ

Ron Dame
02-13-2007, 05:58 PM
Yeah, these are Ertl pistons. Must be die cast miniatures of a C-W Cyclone or something.;)
No marks at all.

BTW, Paul Warta gave me a jolt: Are the rods for a 185 the same as an early or a late Champion engine, or are they unique? Does anyone have a spare odd numbered, preferably #3 already stamped on it?


quote:Originally posted by Dwain G.

So then these are an aftermarket piston of some kind? They should at least have a notch on the top edge of the piston or a small dimple near the edge. Lacking any marks at all, you will need to find the off-set, if any, and install the pistons with the pin off-set toward the thrust side of the cylinder. This means the 'light' side of the piston faces left (driver's side) or distributor side.
If you can't visually detect an offset try to find the heavy side of the piston by installing it loosely on the rod and letting it hang upside-down. Piston should tip to heavy side.
Or, on a flat surface, with a tee-square against the rod big end, measure the distance from surface to wrist pin. Flip the assembly over and measure the distance again.
The purpose of pin offset on these short shirt pistons is to minimize piston 'slap'.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.



Ron Dame
'63 Champ

Ron Dame
02-13-2007, 06:09 PM
as a follow up, can anyone scan and email me the pages from a 1958 shop manual concerning piston isntallation?

Ron Dame
'63 Champ

Ron Dame
02-13-2007, 06:11 PM
I just checked, these hang level. So I guess there is no offset? Maybe these Ertls are a substitute that fits, but aren't really "correct"? Is anyone certain that the 185 has offset piston pins?


quote:Originally posted by Dwain G.

So then these are an aftermarket piston of some kind? They should at least have a notch on the top edge of the piston or a small dimple near the edge. Lacking any marks at all, you will need to find the off-set, if any, and install the pistons with the pin off-set toward the thrust side of the cylinder. This means the 'light' side of the piston faces left (driver's side) or distributor side.
If you can't visually detect an offset try to find the heavy side of the piston by installing it loosely on the rod and letting it hang upside-down. Piston should tip to heavy side.
Or, on a flat surface, with a tee-square against the rod big end, measure the distance from surface to wrist pin. Flip the assembly over and measure the distance again.
The purpose of pin offset on these short shirt pistons is to minimize piston 'slap'.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.



Ron Dame
'63 Champ

N8N
02-13-2007, 08:47 PM
Just FYI there is no '58 shop manual.

I do have a '58 supplement "somewhere" if nobody comes up with an answer soon, I may have to look for it.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Dwain G.
02-13-2007, 10:02 PM
No change in the rods for any 170 or 185 engine except the early babbited rods. Odd numbered rods are offset to the front and even numbered offset to the rear.
The '57 and '58 supplements have only specifications in the engine section. You'll have to get a '55 or a '56 manual to get a full engine section, but the assembly information in your '59-'64 manual also applies to the 185.

http://home.comcast.net/~jdwain/63.63.jpg
Dwain G.

r1lark
02-13-2007, 10:20 PM
quote:BTW, Paul Warta gave me a jolt: Are the rods for a 185 the same as an early or a late Champion engine, or are they unique? Does anyone have a spare odd numbered, preferably #3 already stamped on it?
Ron Dame
'63 Champ


Ron, I'm sorry. I checked the parts book, and agree with Dwain that the Champion/OHV rods were all the same (at least from '47 thru '64, which is the span of my parts books). But unfortunately the bunch of early 170 rods from my '54 engine are being reused in the '59/60 flathead engine I am building for the '54. But....I do know that Henry Walter has a '54 and earlier 170 engine that he wants out of his building. So, there is a source of some spare rods, just not too close to you.

I apologize for creating the confusion.

Paul

Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html

Ron Dame
02-14-2007, 08:00 AM
That's OK Paul. I think the #5 out of my junk engine may be OK, so all may be well.

I'm still not sure whether to use these pistons with no pin offset or not, and still not certain that any 185's did, but I don't know why not?

Ron Dame
'63 Champ

r1lark
02-14-2007, 03:31 PM
quote:Originally posted by Ron Dame

That's OK Paul. I think the #5 out of my junk engine may be OK, so all may be well.

I'm still not sure whether to use these pistons with no pin offset or not, and still not certain that any 185's did, but I don't know why not?

Ron Dame
'63 Champ


Ron, I have some NOS Stude 185 pistons. I can check the offset (if any) on Friday at work. We have a granite surface 'block' that I can use to set it up. How about send me a email at my aol address, to remind me......

Paul

Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html

Ron Dame
02-15-2007, 06:15 PM
Hey Nate, please see if you can find your '58 supplement.


quote:Originally posted by N8N

Just FYI there is no '58 shop manual.

I do have a '58 supplement "somewhere" if nobody comes up with an answer soon, I may have to look for it.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel


Ron Dame
'63 Champ