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sbca96
02-11-2007, 09:52 PM
EDIT (10/10/10) See Bob Johnstones website for the complete procedure here :

http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/sbca96/stupspump/stupspumpreb.html

Tom

EDIT for picture location, and to add critical Q & A thread link.

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7602

I decided to break this down into sections, rather than do them all
together. This is the first of 4 parts, the subject is a 1963 Avanti
but the basics can be applied to most early 60s Studebakers.

I pulled the pump off a couple months ago after blowing a seal, the
hoses and just about everything else is old & tattered. If the pump
hadn't failed, the pressure hose was a close second, as the hose at
the pump end had passed its expected life years before.

Tonight I started cleaning and disassembling the pump. The pulley is
the "keyed" style, with a thick washer and bolt. A 1/2 wrench is the
requirement here. I used a pair of vice grips and grabbed the outer
edge of the pulley, and rotated the pulley until the vice grips hit
up against the pump case. I hit the wrench with a rubber mallet and
it came loose (Poor mans impact gun). Once the bolt was loose I took
hold of the pulley and pulled it in & out which worked it loose from
the shaft, your level of difficulty may vary. Next was the pump case
bolts, which hold on two of the mounting brackets. They require a 9/16
wrench, I used the same technique for these(rubber mallet). A bit more
cleaning was required once the brackets were off. This is as far as I
got before getting cleaner into an open wound on my hand, this pretty
much ended my fun for the evening. It seems the case is held together
with dowel pins, any tips as to where to pry? Nate? Mike M?

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_001a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_002a.jpg

Tom

'63 Avanti, zinc plated drilled & slotted 03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, soon: 97 Z28 T-56 6-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves, 'R3' 276 cam, Edelbrock AFB Carb, GM HEI distributor, 8.8mm plug wires

Mike
02-12-2007, 08:24 AM
I don't remember any special difficulty getting it apart. Mine looked awful inside. The drive pin, that keys the rotor to the shaft was breaking up; and the rollers had dug into the end plate. I figured I would clean it up and use it until I found another. Small Fords used the same. I made a new drive pin, and sanded the end plate flat. That was about six years ago. It's still working great.
I made the mistake of not doing the whole system at the same time; and had metal particles in the ram, that later went everywhere. I trapped them, over time, with a magnet in the reservoir and a few fluid changes. You can plug the fitting on the reservoir, and run the return hose into a bottle, to flush the system. Just keep filling the reservoir.
Be sure to use a grommet and washer, in the lid, that allow the reservoir to vent. Most kits contain parts for Fords that vent from the fill stack. They do a nice job of sealing the Stude reservoir, until it gets hot and forces fluid out.
Mike M.

DEEPNHOCK
02-12-2007, 09:17 AM
I grabbed a Ford top off of a boneyard car that had the fill cap and dipstick on it..
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by Mike

I don't remember any special difficulty getting it apart. Mine looked awful inside. The drive pin, that keys the rotor to the shaft was breaking up; and the rollers had dug into the end plate. I figured I would clean it up and use it until I found another. Small Fords used the same. I made a new drive pin, and sanded the end plate flat. That was about six years ago. It's still working great.
I made the mistake of not doing the whole system at the same time; and had metal particles in the ram, that later went everywhere. I trapped them, over time, with a magnet in the reservoir and a few fluid changes. You can plug the fitting on the reservoir, and run the return hose into a bottle, to flush the system. Just keep filling the reservoir.
Be sure to use a grommet and washer, in the lid, that allow the reservoir to vent. Most kits contain parts for Fords that vent from the fill stack. They do a nice job of sealing the Stude reservoir, until it gets hot and forces fluid out.
Mike M.


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

sbca96
03-12-2007, 04:47 AM
Yah .. I had the WHOLE pump from a Ford, with the cap, dipstick & all,
that went to the scrapyard with the Lark parts and engines.


quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

[b]I grabbed a Ford top off of a boneyard car that had the fill cap and dipstick on it..Jeff

OK, this weekend I was finally able to continue taking the pump apart.
According to the instructions, you remove the lid, and put two nuts on
the shaft, tighten them against each other and unscrew the shaft :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_003a.jpg

After the shaft is removed, there is a bolt in the bottom that has a
tapped hole for the shaft. That is removed with a 1 inch socket. I
used a rubber mallet on the wrench to "negotiate" it loose :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_004a.jpg

Here is the bolt removed :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_005a.jpg

The reservoir just lifts right off with the bolt out :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_006a.jpg

Tapped on the sides with a small ball peen hammer, took a couple solid
hits but the case started to separate. Once I got a gap, I put a wide
blade screwdriver between the halfs and carefully twisted the handle.
I made sure to pry near the dowel pins, and went back & forth between
them to separate the case evenly :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_007a.jpg

Tip the case onto the shaft side to keep the guts from falling out :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_008a.jpg

Lift the vane side off the housing side :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_009a.jpg

Thats as far as I got today. Doesnt seem like much I know.

Tom

sbca96
03-14-2007, 01:25 AM
Back to mess with it a little more tonight, pulled the shaft out of
the housing :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_010a.jpg

Wiped of the yucky fluid :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_011a.jpg

The gear part slides on the shaft and is held in place with a snap
clip of some sort, and a dowel pin (any guesses as to material? Mine
has a ridge on it - I think its supposed to be round) :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_012a.jpg

Here is the main seal in the housing, its a nice double seal with a
good amount of surface area :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_013a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_014a.jpg

Grabbed my handy dandy seal puller I got from Harbor Freight (if you
dont have one of these, you are missing out - makes life easier).

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_015a.jpg

I wasnt too impressed with the seal that came with the Stude Int kit,
it was lighter duty, and less sealing surface area :

outside :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_016a.jpg

inside :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_017a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_018a.jpg

I wonder if the Ford replacement part is better?? I think I will see
if Napa can cross reference this number.

Tom

studebaker-R2-4-me
03-14-2007, 08:33 AM
Great Post! This is the information and style of post we need on the Technical section of this forum. I hope we see it going back together too! Thanks for time you took to post all the pictures! Allen

1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone

N8N
03-14-2007, 09:36 AM
Tom,

the C/R on that seal makes me think that it may be a Chicago Rawhide part, maybe you can just order the exact same part from your FLAPS?

Let me know if that works, I'll add it to my spreadsheet.

thanks,

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

60Lark
03-14-2007, 10:55 AM
When I rebuilt the PS Pump on my 60 Lark I bought the kit from SI, but thought the seal looked inferior, so I went to my FLAPS and asked for a shaft seal to fit an Eaton PS Pump for a 60 Ford and it was an exact match to the original.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce20b3127cce8d0e3b50356c00000000400CcNWTlozYsb http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6dc03b3127cce970d7aafd15f00000010100CcNWTlozYsb
Studebaker Fever
60 Lark
51 Champion
Phil
Arnold, Missouri

sbca96
03-14-2007, 02:11 PM
I will bring the info to Napa and see what they come up with, I will
post my findings. I do not like how Stude International isnt selling
the BEST products available. I would rather had spent a couple more
bucks & got the BEST seal, then save a few & get something inferior. I
dont want to have to deal with this again for another 40 years or 103k
miles - which ever comes first![:p];)

Thanks for the compliment 'R2-4-me', did you catch my fuel pump tech
article a little while back? I need to check with the Mod, and see if
we can have a sub-forum added to the main forum for "keepers". That
brake drum cross reference thread should be bronzed! But its lost on
page 14 (or something).

Tom

r1lark
03-14-2007, 04:30 PM
quote:Originally posted by sbca96

I will bring the info to Napa and see what they come up with, I will
post my findings. I do not like how Stude International isnt selling
the BEST products available. I would rather had spent a couple more
bucks & got the BEST seal, then save a few & get something inferior. I
dont want to have to deal with this again for another 40 years or 103k
miles - which ever comes first![:p];)

Tom


Tom,

What is the part number on the original seal? I can't quite make it out in the pic. Thanks!!

Paul

Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html

N8N
03-14-2007, 07:39 PM
All right, I punched a '61 Hawk up in the NAPA web site...

the *listing* for a p/s pump shaft seal is:

Item#: NOS7440
I.D.:0.7500"
O.D.:1.2540"
Width:0.2500"

If I try to cross reference "ER92999" I get:

Item#: NOS7465
I.D.:0.7500"
O.D.:1.2540"
Width:0.3130"

just FWIW... I couldn't find that part number on Chicago Rawhide's web site however, so I don't know if that's a discontinued seal, or if it was made by someone else, or what... Anyway the one you got from SI *might* be the one actually listed for the app, and the one that's in there is for some reason wider. I couldn't say what the specs of the stock one were.

nate

(yes, I do have some experience tracking down interchanges on the Web...)

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

r1lark
03-14-2007, 09:07 PM
quote:Originally posted by N8N

All right, I punched a '61 Hawk up in the NAPA web site...

the *listing* for a p/s pump shaft seal is:

Item#: NOS7440
I.D.:0.7500"
O.D.:1.2540"
Width:0.2500"

If I try to cross reference "ER92999" I get:

Item#: NOS7465
I.D.:0.7500"
O.D.:1.2540"
Width:0.3130"

just FWIW... I couldn't find that part number on Chicago Rawhide's web site however, so I don't know if that's a discontinued seal, or if it was made by someone else, or what... Anyway the one you got from SI *might* be the one actually listed for the app, and the one that's in there is for some reason wider. I couldn't say what the specs of the stock one were.

nate

(yes, I do have some experience tracking down interchanges on the Web...)

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel


My old CR Bearing/Seal book calls for:
'63-'66: CR 7465
'60-'62: CR 7440
'58-'59: CR 7475

Paul

Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html

DEEPNHOCK
03-14-2007, 09:45 PM
Just to give you guys a heads up...
Chicago Rawhide, as a company name, is no more...
After over 130 years of being a great American manufacturer, the current owners (SKF) put the SKF name above all else and now it is called SKF Sealing Division.. (SKF is a Swedish company and they have owned C/R for about 18 years now)....
But...
The SKF sealing divisions part numbering system is based on shaft size.
So, that part number 7440 means that seal will fit a .744" shaft....
and that 7465 seal will fit a .746" shaft. You can still have variants of the number and it cam mean a few things like single lip, double lip, nitrile rubber, Viton, etc. So you really can't just grab the numbers close to that one. SKF seals are partnered up with NAPA, so that makes it a bit easier to work with.
Hope the info helps...
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by r1lark


quote:Originally posted by N8N

All right, I punched a '61 Hawk up in the NAPA web site...

the *listing* for a p/s pump shaft seal is:

Item#: NOS7440
I.D.:0.7500"
O.D.:1.2540"
Width:0.2500"

If I try to cross reference "ER92999" I get:

Item#: NOS7465
I.D.:0.7500"
O.D.:1.2540"
Width:0.3130"

just FWIW... I couldn't find that part number on Chicago Rawhide's web site however, so I don't know if that's a discontinued seal, or if it was made by someone else, or what... Anyway the one you got from SI *might* be the one actually listed for the app, and the one that's in there is for some reason wider. I couldn't say what the specs of the stock one were.

nate

(yes, I do have some experience tracking down interchanges on the Web...)

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel


My old CR Bearing/Seal book calls for:
'63-'66: CR 7465
'60-'62: CR 7440
'58-'59: CR 7475

Paul

Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html


http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

sbca96
03-15-2007, 03:28 AM
OK ... I was doing some research while everyone apparently was also. I
first went to Napa with the part number and he crossed the CR. I did
not get the first one you found Nate. He found the second one right
off, and it showed Avanti as the application, as well as 62-67 Fords.

NOS7465

Unfortunately, its a special order, and they charge for shipping. They
did say they had one of the store about 100 miles north. I passed on
it for the time being, figuring I would follow up on the Ford numbers.

I got home and found it easily online :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/pump_seal/Pump_seal_Napa_Avanti.jpg

But this doesnt help much, since its special order, so I tried looking
on the Autozone website, no listing for Stude.:(

So I thought I would try Kragen, they had a listing for Stude :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/pump_seal/Pump_seal_Kragen_Avanti.jpg

So I tried 1964 Mustang, it was the same number! :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/pump_seal/Pump_seal_Kragen_mustang.jpg

So I went back to the Autozone website, but no listing for Mustang. So
I tried 64 Fairlane and they had a listing.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/pump_seal/Pump_seal_Autozone_Fairlane.jpg

But that doesnt mean that the Mustang and the Fairlane use the same
part, I had to confirm that, so I looked up the whole pump, and even
though they dont carry them, they had a number - which was the same.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/pump_seal/Pump_Autozone_Fairlane.jpg
http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/pump_seal/Pump_Autozone_Mustang.jpg

So we can "assume" that the Autozone Fairlane seal should work. Its
anyones guess if its the "good" one. I will see what the chance of
Kragen getting the one above in. Thats what I found so far!

Tom

ROADRACELARK
03-15-2007, 12:05 PM
Tom,
I don't mean to jump ahead in your procedure, but as the front half of the pump body is laying there, you can remove the outer race just by using a couple of fingers of each hand to reach inside and slide it out. It's not an interference fit, should slide out easy. Be extra carefull to notice the tiny pin in the lower corner of of the housing where you just removed the race from. It is very easy to loose [B)]. Ask me how I know![xx(] Again...didn't mean to interupt, but some might not think the race comes out at first, but during the cleaning process is when you would discover this, and that is when the pin comes up missing.[:0] Just trying to help. Great job so far!!!;)

Dan Miller
Atlanta, GA

[img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.

sbca96
03-15-2007, 04:13 PM
Thanks Dan, yes that sleeve IS a slip fit! I thought I was losing my
mind (might still be!) when I noticed the housing "levitating" above
the piece of paper I set it on!! I picked it up and like you said it
was hanging out. The pin was still there. I still need to familarize
myself with all the parts to figure out what I am replacing. The kit
doesnt include bushings, so those are staying. I will try the Kragen
down the street after work for that seal.

Tom

sbca96
03-18-2007, 12:04 AM
UPDATE: Wish I had better news, I drove all the way up to San Luis
today to look at that Napa seal and its the same one I got on the kit.
I got another possible number though, sounds promising but its special
order only. I might be able to cross it to another brand seal?? The
number is a 7449 :

I.D. : .75"
O.D. : 1.254"
Width : .375"

It also lists as being a different style case. The San Luis Napa has
internet connection and pulled up this forum to check Nate's numbers.
I wanted to make sure the above (7449) hadnt been posted. He looked
at the pictures I posted of the original seal, and said it looked like
the same case as the 7449 seal, where as the 7465 is different.

Tom

sbca96
03-28-2007, 05:38 PM
So far nothing but dead ends. It doesnt look like the OEM seal is
made anymore, and the one in the Studebaker International kit is the
best replacement available. That's depressing, but I guess such is
life. The Napa ordered the 7449 seal, and it has the SAME thin seal
area that the S.I. seal has. Each seal I have found has the same
type, just a thicker or thinner case. I was going to bring the OEM
seal by for the guy to look at personally, but it looks like it is
what it is, and the pump will go back together with the thin seal.

Tom

sbca96
04-15-2007, 04:53 AM
Got out there to do some more on the pump today, during the week I had
the lid and reservoir soaked and sandblasted and then painted them. I
gave up on the seal search, just going to use the one I have. I seem
to remember Mike posting up some info on how to install it without it
being damaged, but I tried search and cant find it now. If memory is
right, you remove the gear and the snap ring, pound the seal into the
housing, and push the shaft in from the outside (with the pulley on).

Here is how I removed the valve assembly, in a vise with a piece of wood
protecting the o-ring surface from the jaws of the vice :

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_019a.jpg

As far as I can figure out, the kit comes with a couple seals you dont
use, I laid them out on a towel .. and labeled them.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_020a.jpg

Here is the valve out of the housing, and the fat o-ring from the kit.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_021a.jpg

Installed o-ring, I just lubed it, and rolled it gently over the cap
threads, that should be OK.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_022a.jpg

Added lube to to and tightened it back into the housing using the wood
block as in the above picture.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_023a.jpg

This worries me, the shaft is scored, I noticed it before, but now I
wonder of its OK. The pin is crushed like you mentioned Mike. I think
its around a grade 5 or grade 8 pin? I could probably buy a shoulder
bolt and cut the head and threads off. I will check with Napa. See
any problem with using this shaft?

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_024a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_025a.jpg

Tom

DEEPNHOCK
04-15-2007, 09:36 AM
Go get yourself a 99075 Speedi-Sleeve from SKF (formerly Chicago-Rawhide), or a 99075 Redi-Sleeve from National.
Follow the instructions about installing the sleeve and removing the installation ring.
http://www.alliedbearings.com/mfg_prod/seals/cr_speedi/cr_speedisleeve_install.pdf
You may need to modify it a bit, but if it can save your shaft....
They are only eleven thousandths thick, so your seal will ride on a good shaft surface (centerless plunge ground)..
These have saved a lot of shafts in the world....
http://www2.chicago-rawhide.com/speedi_sleeves.htm
http://www2.chicago-rawhide.com/images/ScoredSSlv.jpg
Jeff[8D]



quote:Originally posted by sbca96
<snip>
This worries me, the shaft is scored, I noticed it before, but now I
wonder of its OK. The pin is crushed like you mentioned Mike. I think
its around a grade 5 or grade 8 pin? I could probably buy a shoulder
bolt and cut the head and threads off. I will check with Napa. See
any problem with using this shaft?



http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

Mike
04-15-2007, 01:13 PM
The grooves in the shaft, at either end of the cutout for the pin, don't matter. That's an area that doesn't contact anything when the roller carrier is slid over the drive pin. The grooves are the original finish.
The carrier comes off the shaft easily, with the snap ring removed.
What was left of my original pin looked like it had once been smooth and round, with rounded ends like the cutout in the shaft. Maybe it's supposed to shear easily, if the pump jams. I think I made my new pin out of the smooth end of a drill bit. I rounded the ends like the original; and made it a little longer, to almost fill the cutout. I may have used a nail; which would be a little softer.
By the way, the pulley uses a conventional half moon key.
Mike M.

studebaker-R2-4-me
04-15-2007, 02:12 PM
This is a great post! I am looking forward to rebuilding mine.

Tom when are you doing the actuator valve? I need some tips and step by step pictures on that one too!

1964 GT Hawk soon to be R2 Clone

sbca96
04-15-2007, 04:21 PM
Thanks for the input Mike and Jeff, sorry I should have made it more
clear that the grooves are not at the bushing surface, but under the
gear (which doesnt rotate). It does seem like the material of the
pin is soft, the instructions say to replace it (easy to do back when
the car was new!).

Was I correct in the install of the shaft, after the seal has been put
into the housing? I have the half moon key for the pulley, thats in
good shape. It looks like no matter how I try to install the shaft,
it will destroy the seal, unless I follow what I typed above. The
shaft is rounded on the opposite side from the pulley, and the seal is
angled such that its only going to accept the shaft one direction.

The power ram and control valve will be next. I was supposed to get
it done this weekend, for a show next weekend, but I called them and
it looks like they have no room left for me anyway (so I am not going
to kill myself getting this done in a hurry), there is always next
year! (Andy Granatelli is one of the hosts, he didnt make it to our
show last year, the one I busted my butt getting ready for, Sept 06)

http://www.wheelsandwaves.com/

Tom

ROADRACELARK
04-15-2007, 04:57 PM
Tom,

Yes, install the shaft the way you described, removing the lock ring and roll pin and pushing the shaft through from that end. Use some grease over the rough areas. By installing the woodruff key and the pully, that keeps the shaft from slipping back through the seal across that sharp edge. Your pictures and text all look great! This will be a big help to some who otherwise might not attempt this task. Again, GREAT JOB!:)

Dan Miller
Atlanta, GA

[img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.

sbca96
04-18-2007, 05:51 AM
I decided to throw caution to the wind, take the day off and do the
whole rebuild in order to get the car back on the road for the show
this weekend. So much for lofty plans, at least I got the pump done.

I went over to Napa, and they told me they dont carry any solid dowel
pins. They recommended Ace Hardware, and sure enough they had a large
selection of them. I bought two, one 3/16 x 1/2 and one 3/16 x 3/4.

3/16 x 1/2
skw : 08236 73720
label : 44240-F
price : .30

3/16 x 3/4
skw : 08236 73722
label : 44241-G
price : .35

The 1/2 long dowel pin was the same length as the orginal one, but I
wanted to fill the groove, so I bought the 3/4 also to grind down to
get a more snug fit.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_026a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_027a.jpg

Then I pounded in the seal, this is the one that came in the kit. I
have always used a hammer, and tapped back and forth, side to side,
in a star pattern, and circular to get the seal to go in straight.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_028a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_029a.jpg

Then I used a 15/16 socket to drive it in until it stopped moving.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_030a.jpg

Next was to disassemble the pin assembly, removing the gear and split
retainer ring.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_031a.jpg

Assemble the pulley onto the pin, it helps to stick the dowel pin in
the groove and temporarily put the gear back on

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_032a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_033a.jpg

Slide the gear back off, and put some lube on the pin and seal.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_034a.jpg

Slide the pin into the seal and through the housing half.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_035a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_036a.jpg

Set the housing half onto the pulley and gather these parts.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_037a.jpg

Then assemble them, making sure to match the direction of the "teeth"
on the gear. It IS directional, so dont put it in backward! Now put
the split retainer ring into the groove. I should note that the ring
was worn flat on one side from being next to the gear for 40 years. I
put the ring back on reversed to put off buying a replacement for yet
another 40 years. You can see the 'flat' facing out in the picture.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_039a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_040a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_041a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_042a.jpg

Gather up these parts, two orings and the cylinders. Remove the old
smaller o-ring if its still there.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_043a.jpg

Tom

DEEPNHOCK
04-18-2007, 08:07 AM
Here's a suggestion for you....
Get a small strong flat magnet and stick it to the outside of the can to pick up metal chips. Put it in a place where the spiral flow isn't so wicked. Then you can take the lid off and wipe out any accumulation that collects there.
Cheap filtering;)
Jeff[8D]

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j54/deepnhock/Jeff%20Rice%20Studebaker%20Pictures/1937StudebakerCoupeExpressJeffRicee.jpg

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

ROADRACELARK
04-18-2007, 10:08 AM
Tom,

You don't have to take the ram off of the car to reseal it, unless you just want to go tho the extra trouble. It's actually easier with it ON to car. Disconnect the "tie-rod" end from the bellcrank. Remove the "tie-rod" end from the ram shaft, making sure to mark or count the threads so you'll be able to reinstall the end back to its original position. get some snap-ring plires and remove the snap ring and the dust shield with the plastic washer. Next, wrap a shop rag around the shaft where it enters the body of the ram. Tie it up tight then have a good size pan under this area. Crank the engine at idle speed, turn the steering wheel to the right full lock. Tug on it once or twice, this forces the old seal out. Just don't run your pump dry. It may take one or two attempts. Have done MANY this method, you don't risk damage to the shaft trying to "dig" to old seal out, not to mention the extra trouble to remove the ram. Hope this helps. :)

[img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.

Swifster
04-18-2007, 12:09 PM
Tom, thanks for going thru the entire procedure. Being able to see this done with pictures will give a lot of us the confidence to be able handle the rebuild on our own without subleting it someone else to do. I hope you are able to get thr ram off of your car so the we may see the same type of rebuild detail that you have with the pump.

As a note to others you may be doing repairs or rebuilds, I hope you will follow Tom's lead in showing us what you are doing and what it entailed. I would dare to say most of us here fall under the term shade tree mechanic or hobbist, and seeing some of the repairs completed in this fashion will only help the rest of us. I hope some of these threads are converted into a how-to section at some point for the long term benefit of all.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

sbca96
04-18-2007, 12:22 PM
Thanks Jeff, I have read others mentioning the magnet trick, seems its
worth adding to a transmission pan also.

RoadRaceLark, thats the part that doesnt want to come off. The "tie-
rod end". I removed the cotter pin and loosen the nut. I wacked the
bellcrank quite a few times with a sledge, but it wont "pop-out". I've
used this method with these types of ends before and they usually take
just a couple hits. I buttoned it back up. Since the end is threaded
to the ram shaft, couldnt it be separated there? I can not use the
pump pressure to disassmeble the ram, the hoses are toast, I am afraid
that they will explode with the new pump. I do have an air compressor
though, so that should take the place.

Swifster, thanks, thats why I took so many pictures, as they say "A
picture is worth a thousand words". I must also add that setting up
each step to take pictures adds a LOT of extra time to the job. This
is why I "only" got the pump done. I would also like to see this and
my fuel pump threads put into a "sticky" tech section.

Tom

ROADRACELARK
04-18-2007, 12:58 PM
Tom,


It helps tremendously if you use a "pickle fork" (the smaller size) along with that sledge hammer. If you don't have one, I'm sure one of your local FLAPS has tools to loan out. Rest assured, the amount of pressure it would take to "blow" that seal out would be considerably be less than to blow a hose, even if they are old. It requires a lot of pressure to turn those radial tires on pavement with the weight of the car on them. I've never failed to remove one using this method. :)

Dan(sorry I didn't sign the last reply)Miller:(
Atlanta, GA

[img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.

sbca96
04-18-2007, 05:21 PM
I have a pickle fork (two sizes), but they tend to destroy the rubber
cup that holds the grease in. I might have an "old" one I kept though.
I have used a neat tool from Autozone (they loan it) that has a bolt
with a "C" that grabs the part the tapered shaft is it, and applies
force to the end "pushing" it out without damaging anything. I will
see if this might work.

As for the method you describe, I dont want to go that route since it
will require putting the pump in, filling the system (its pretty much
empty right now) and then redraining it. Have you ever uncrewed the
ram shaft from the tierod end and left it on the bellcrank? If it has
to come off anyway ... why not separate it on the car? Am I missing
something here?

Tom

ROADRACELARK
04-18-2007, 07:24 PM
Tom,
No, I never have, only because you still have to remove the other end mounting as well as the hoses....I've never seen it done with air pressure unless you have an super compressor that can deliver 175 psi or better Plus, you'll have to plug one of the two ports, can't remember which, and be prepared for a big mess if/when it turns loose.:( Look at it this way...You're gona' put the pump back on anyway, what's three bolts, two hoses and a quart of fluid? Let the pump do the work for you.;) Just my 2 cents worth.:)

Dan Miller
Atlanta, GA

[img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.

ROADRACELARK
12-26-2008, 10:05 AM
Great job on the picture up-dates, Tom!!:) Very nice addition to that project. Happy hollidays to you and yours, and by the way, how's your wife doing? I hope things are improving.

Dan Miller
Atlanta, GA

[img=left]http://static.flickr.com/57/228744729_7aff5f0118_m.jpg[/img=left]
Road Racers turn left AND right.

StudebakerGeorge
12-26-2008, 11:11 AM
What a nice thread. Great to see stuff like this! I have a couple things to add. I use a kit from Carquest for the early Ford like mentioned and the ones I have been getting have a high quality seal in them. I take a small "bite" out of the grommet for the top so it can vent. I also install an inline filter also available from Carquest.. I forget the part number but I could get it and most decent parts stores should be able to also supply one. It looks like a large fuel filter but is much heavier duty and goes in the return line. End of contamination troubles! On the seal replacement, I made a small sleeve that slides over the shaft so the seal can pass over the sharp edge. The seal can then be installed with the pump assembled, slide the seal over the sleeeve, knock it in, pull off the sleeve. If you have ever done valve stem seals on an older VW or MB the "kit" comes with a plastic sleeve that slides over the top of the valve and protects the seal from the sharp edges formed by the keepers, that's where I got the idea. I have a giant box with saved plastic and metal cap plugs and such and found one that fit perfect after cutting the "top" off. BTW, I'm not promoting Carquest, it's just that I have the very good fortune of having a friend work at one here who is a real old time parts guy and also another one of their stores that caters to fleet service and also has a great bunch of "real" parts guys who will always take time to help with odd stuff.

StudebakerGeorge

sbca96
12-26-2008, 06:30 PM
Dan,

Its been a rough year to say the least. I have driven the Avanti a
total of 2 times the whole year. Once to move it into storage at a
friend house back in Feb to work on the IROC, and then again a few
months ago to bring it back home. I have been focusing all my work
on her replacement car (1999 Camaro SS) we bought after we were
forced into the center divider by an SUV in March (they fled). She is
still very upset from losing her car, among other things end of 2007.

George,

I used to buy almost all my parts from a CarQuest in Goleta, Ca. But
I moved and with the commute I am stuck with the ones open later.

Tom

bams50
12-26-2008, 08:27 PM
I sound like a broken record, but again I offer my thanks! It's hard enough to document in perfect detail like you do and still get the job done, but then to have to go back and replace all the picture links because your old host went bust is really above and beyond!

Thanks for all you do to further the cause[^]

And, thanks to Dan, Jeff, and the others who contributed expertise to this great effort. Studebaqker folks are the best![8D]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"Some people live for the rules, I live for exceptions"- 311

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

dynolou2
12-27-2008, 02:51 AM
For those of you that have a Carquest nearby their seal # 6835S duplicates the origonal double lip seal on the Eaton ps pump. My cost with work discount was $8.00. It is much better than the one found in the SI kit. Lou Cote [8D] enough with the snow already.

sbca96
12-27-2008, 05:10 PM
quote:Originally posted by dynolou2

For those of you that have a Carquest nearby their seal # 6835S duplicates the origonal double lip seal on the Eaton ps pump.

Where were you a year ago?[}:)][:p]

Tom

dynolou2
12-28-2008, 02:07 AM
I hadn,t bought my repair kit yet, I posted this info in July, under P.S. pump seal. I thought that I would bring the part # back up as you had updated and brought your post forward. Just in case someone just needed a shaft seal only. Lou Cote [8D]

sbca96
12-28-2008, 04:18 PM
Well .. its good info, thanks for the input, I just wish it was back
when I was searching. You can see how much effort I put into it, but
came up short. Car Quest wins one this time.

Tom

sbca96
05-30-2014, 01:17 AM
http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_044a.jpg

Here is where they go.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_045a.jpg

I used some fine sandpaper, and with some lube spread on the opposite
housing half, cleaned up the surface to insure a good seal.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_046a.jpg

Put some lube on the o-rings.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_047a.jpg

Align the housing dowel pins and tap the assembly together.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_048a.jpg
http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_049a.jpg

Gather up your bolts, brackets and remove the pulley by holding the
pulley and loosening the pulley retaining bolt.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_050a.jpg

Assemble the brackets and bolts to the housing and snug the bolts down
following a "star" pattern.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_051a.jpg

I grabbed the thin bracket in my vice and torqued the bolts to the required 20-25 foot pounds.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_052a.jpg

And put the pulley back on.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_053a.jpg

Remove the two old reservoir seals.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_054a.jpg

Gather these parts up.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_055a.jpg

Put the new seals in, and apply lube.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_056a.jpg

Put the bolt in with the reinforcement plate as shown.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_057a.jpg

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_058a.jpg

Back in the vice and torque to 30-35 foot pounds.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_059a.jpg

Install the rod with threads at either end, torque 40-60 inch pounds.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_060a.jpg

Gather these seals and the lid.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_061a.jpg

Put the large seal into the lid, and install, put the small seal with
the bump into first.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_062a.jpg

Then add the large flat skinny one.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_063a.jpg

Big washer and wingnut and your done!

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_064a.jpg

Here is the finished pump. I wish I didnt have the ram, control valve
and all the hoses left to do still.

http://emperorjordan.com/sbca96/images/Avantinewimages/Avanti_Power_Steering/PS_Pump/PowerSteeringPump_065a.jpg

OK ... so I used Bob Johnston's website to restore my thread as best I can. Good thing
that Bob does this for the People of Studebaker. Took a while for me to reconstruct it.

http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/sbca96/stupspump/stupspumpreb.html

Tom

fpstude
02-02-2016, 12:49 AM
Tom, please accept my thanks and appreciation for this TECH thread. I just followed it step by step to replace the power steering pump seal on our GT Hawk. It is very accurate and detailed. The project is a success.

StudeNorm
02-02-2016, 01:39 PM
Great thread. I rebuilt my ram, valve and pump (sort of) over 20 years back when all I had was the '59-'64 shop manual to keep me on the straight and narrow. The parts sat on my shelf until last spring when I installed the ram and valve on my newly acquired '63 Lark.

I do have a question about trying to find a replacement shaft snap ring. That skinny little one that holds the gear in place after you slip it on the shaft and slide it into the housing... Is there a part number for this piece or is it part of a kit? Mine took a flyer into the nether reaches 20 years ago and I haven't been able to find a replacement. I asked this question once before but never got an answer.

This seems like the place to now ask the question. Where can I find a replacement?

Thanks and keep these very useful type of threads coming!

sbca96
02-07-2016, 06:21 PM
Glad this thread was useful.

Unfortunately, I dont have any info on the part, but I do know that they are the same basic
pieces that Ford used. You might try that route, NPD sells a lot of early Mustang parts.

Tom

studebaker-R2-4-me
02-11-2016, 11:29 PM
Glad this thread was useful.

Unfortunately, I dont have any info on the part, but I do know that they are the same basic
pieces that Ford used. You might try that route, NPD sells a lot of early Mustang parts.

Tom

National Parts Depot is the way to go, they are not even worth rebuilding yourself or waiting to find the little clip. The last one I purchased was about a hundred dollars with a guarantee. I lost a hose, on a very busy highway, did not want to stop, could not stop,.... said screw it and drove the last 10 minutes home. Threw an spare one on the next day and took the seized but re-buildable one to NPD a year later.

Allen

Ira
09-16-2016, 05:14 PM
i have the pump, ram and control valve along with the rebuild kits for an Eaton Pwr Steering unit for 60 Hawk. I need someone who can rebuild all three for me if anyone can recommend. thanks