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View Full Version : Granatelli takes 3 Avantis to Bonneville (?)



herbpcpa
02-19-2010, 08:15 AM
The video on youtube says they took three Avantis to Bonneville. The one shown in the video is red. Same color red as the Sherwood R3 Avanti. On the car transporter it looks like there is another red Avanti and a lighter colored Avanti. I bet the third one is gold colored and it is that Avanti which actually made the runs which set the records.
Which of these Avantis still exist and is being restored?

Gunslinger
02-19-2010, 09:48 AM
I know the #8 and #9 Avanti's still exist. The #9, which took the records, is in California. The #8 car is in a shop less than ten miles from me having its engine rebuilt (unfortunately, while a genuine R3 engine, is not the R3 it was equipped with at Bonneville). The third car could be the Due Cento, which does still exist, or it could be the Sears Allstate promo car Paula Murphy and Barb Neiland ran coast-to-coast and was driven on the Salt Flats as well. There could also a different car for all I know. Whether the Allstate car still exists I have no idea. Maybe someone else can answer that.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

herbpcpa
02-19-2010, 10:15 AM
Number nine was a gold Avanti? Number eight was red? Due Cento was (is) what color? Due Cento is the Avanti that was used for several historical events (or runs) correct? Which "reincarnation" is it being restored as?
I think the Sears Allstate Avanti is the sole R3 Avanti in Black and its location was reported on the forum some time back. It is one of the factory nine R3 Avantis. Correct me if I am wrong.

Gunslinger
02-19-2010, 11:18 AM
I believe the Sears car was an R2...it definitely had round headlights and I think was a light color. Some pics show it full of graphics promoting Sears and Studebaker.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii281/Boris_Badenov/cars/misc%20car%20pics/allstate_ad.jpg


Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

studegary
02-19-2010, 01:26 PM
The Allstate cross-country car still exists and it is not an R3. Is that the same car that was run at Bonneville?

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

herbpcpa
02-19-2010, 01:32 PM
The only factory R3 Avanti painted black was a promotional car of some kind was is not?

studegary
02-19-2010, 01:44 PM
quote:Originally posted by herbpcpa

The only factory R3 Avanti painted black was a promotional car of some kind was is not?


I am thinking that 5237 and 5625 were both black R3s. Please correct me if I am incorrect on this.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

50Champ
02-19-2010, 02:40 PM
You forgot to post a link to the video so here is one from 1963 which is hopefully the one you're talking about. Did he really say it would go 172 mph?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YG8pdR6VAXw

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1188/4526177/20234971/329233113.jpg

1950 Champion 2 Dr. Sedan

herbpcpa
02-19-2010, 03:01 PM
Yes 5237 and 5625 were both black R3 Avantis.

herbpcpa
02-19-2010, 04:23 PM
Could an R2 Avanti go 161.29 mph?


quote:Originally posted by Gunslinger

I believe the Sears car was an R2...it definitely had round headlights and I think was a light color. Some pics show it full of graphics promoting Sears and Studebaker.
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii281/Boris_Badenov/cars/misc%20car%20pics/allstate_ad.jpg


Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

okc63avanti
02-19-2010, 05:07 PM
quote:Originally posted by herbpcpa

Could an R2 Avanti go 161.29 mph?

[quote]Originally posted by Gunslinger



YES AN R2 COULD DEFINETLY GO 161.29 MPH.

But don't try this at home....

John

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/Profile/AvantionLift.jpghttp://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/Profile/jgheads_pandp.jpghttp://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/Profile/NewPistons.jpghttp://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/Profile/Headson.jpg
63R-2386 under restoration & modification

63t-cab
02-19-2010, 05:59 PM
Heard a story how a mechanic worked on a fellas R2 Avanti and road tested it and clocked at 160mph by state police.

Joseph R. Zeiger

herbpcpa
02-19-2010, 06:51 PM
Granatelli developed the R3 and only gained 10 mph over the R2? Guess the magic is all in the gears in the rear end.
What did Granatelli do with the "Due Cento"? What is it famous for?
What color are Avantis #8 ,#9 and Due Cento?

63t-cab
02-19-2010, 08:04 PM
I understand the R3 did 170mph out of the factory! musta took a little sweat to hit the 196.6mph.

Joseph R. Zeiger

SilverHawkDan
02-19-2010, 08:25 PM
The car in the poster with Paula Murphy standing next to[[IMG]http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p56/dieselguy2006/Avanti%201007%20in%20museum/AvantiInMuseum012.jpg/img] it is Gold and still has the #9 on it's doors. It is curently sitting in the California Automobile Museum in Sacramento. I took pictures of it and got a close up look last month. It's slated to go to another museum soon. So if you want to see it you better get to Sacramento soon.
Silver Hawk Dan
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p56/dieselguy2006/Avanti%201007%20in%20museum/AvantiInMuseum001.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p56/dieselguy2006/Avanti%201007%20in%20museum/AvantiInMuseum005.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p56/dieselguy2006/Avanti%201007%20in%20museum/AvantiInMuseum014.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p56/dieselguy2006/Avanti%201007%20in%20museum/AvantiInMuseum011.jpg
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p56/dieselguy2006/Avanti%201007%20in%20museum/AvantiInMuseum010.jpg

herbpcpa
02-19-2010, 08:45 PM
Odd, Bonneville Avanti #9 has a 140 mph speedometer in the dash.
Does #9 have round headlights? The car Paula Murphy is standing beside in the poster does.

r5duecento
02-19-2010, 09:13 PM
I see that there is still confusion on the Bonneville Avantis so let me try to set the record straight. The video on youtube "Bonneville Record Breaker" is a film of the 1962 Bonneville runs, not the 1963 runs. The color of the cars were 1. red on the prototype car (not a production red as it was a prototype and was painted a darker red). If you look at the end of the film you will see Andy and VJ standing by the car. This car was modified into the Due Cento for the 1963 Bonneville runs. The second car was gold. This car lettered #9 for the 1963 runs. The third car was red and it was lettered #8 for the 1963 runs.

In this film, it is documented that the protytype (red car) set the records in 1962. The gold car was the backup and the other red car was the test car. In 1963, the gold car (#9) set the records and the #8 was the backup car. The Due Cento ran the R5 engine and was shooting for 200 mph. It ran 198 on wet salt and could not get traction. Since Studebaker announced that it was going out of the car business, it did not get to return to try to reach the 200 mph mark.

The Sears-Allstate Cross Country Avanti was at Bonneville but cannot be seen in the film. It was either white or gold, I believe gold. It was all lettered up with cross country records and had an R2 engine.

Dick Bennett

r5duecento
02-19-2010, 09:19 PM
The #9 Avanti has a 140 mph speedometer in it as all early Avantis had a 140 mph speedometer. It is serial #63R1007. The #9 does have round headlights. The car Paula Murphy is standing beside in the poster is the #9 as she also set some records at Bonneville with this car.

WCP
02-19-2010, 09:27 PM
Interesting pictures of #9. I spotted the pressure regulator in front of the carb. It matches one the came into my possession several years back that apparently was sourced from Paxton in the late 60's. I had no info on it. Included in the package was a fuel pump base with 3 inlet & 3 outlet valves, obviously for high output.

Mike
02-20-2010, 01:30 AM
It's sort of a fuel regulator. Paxton sold these modified AC "ACon-O-Mizer"'s; and provided them with some supercharger kits. There were two versions, one with a sediment bowl. A hose connects one side of a diaphragm inside it to intake manifold vacuum/pressure. The other side of the diaphragm moves a plastic plug that restricts gas flow at low speeds,(vacuum or low pressure), to prevent flooding. These are useful with high pressure pumps, and high flow float valves in the carb. Unfortunately, the fuel passages are pretty small; and they were intended for use with 5/16" lines.
These pictures show the regulator on one of the Bonneville R3 Avanti's. I have a picture of one on a Lark R3 at Bonneville, in a magazine article. The text refers to a special 9 lb. pump. It looks like Paxton used these on the Bonneville R-3's. The Avanti Parts book doesn't list them.
I think Stude prevented flooding at idle, on the production cars, by using the small 5/16" line from the pump to the carb, and restrictive 90 degree fittings. The spring that controls fuel pump pressure is also very light, in a stock pump. This is at the expense of high speed fuel delivery; mitigated in the R-2 by the boost line to the fuel pump, which provides supercharger pressure to reinforce the spring.
Paxton also sold the fuel pump valve body with 6 valves. I didn't know it would fit the Carter fuel pumps. There is a 3 valve body, (2 in, one out), that is now widely used on Carter high performance pumps. It looks like it will fit the Stude "R" series pumps. It is intended for 3/8" lines in and out.
Mike M.

WCP
02-20-2010, 12:16 PM
The packing list with these parts indicates the fuel pressure regulator as #38542A and the 6 valve fuel pump body #ACH-1074 and notes in brackets "for '69 Chev 350 cid". The latter is a 10 screw unit of 3 7/8" OD with 3/8" ports. In the picture of #9, the boost reference port of the regulator goes directly to the blower. What fuel pump were they using?

Mike
02-20-2010, 03:10 PM
I don't know for sure, but Paxton probably could have rebuilt a stock "R" pump with a diaphragm/spring assembly from another car manufacturer's high performance Carter fuel pump; and gotten 9 pounds pressure. Maybe triple valve bodies were available, too.
Mike M.

8E45E
07-12-2010, 10:42 PM
More photos for bezhawk:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4073/4788450369_6c07ce8cc4_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4099/4789114538_e4a55b2923_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/4788454535_061dcf000b_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4142/4788458829_893d15c5ec_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4141/4789092578_974381cb11_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4100/4789096454_6552aeaa8c_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4122/4789109832_e665fc0c13_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4096/4789105252_87586e21e3_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4114/4789118638_3a80721220_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4102/4788498701_d78df3d417_b.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4097/4788502563_dc9b6b073b_b.jpg

Craig

63r2
07-12-2010, 11:07 PM
Thanks for the photos.
Does anyone know if it is owned by the Museum or privately,and if it is running or not?
pb

StudeB
07-13-2010, 01:21 AM
Thanks for the photos.
Does anyone know if it is owned by the Museum or privately,and if it is running or not?
pb

The #9 Avanti is privately owned. It runs, drives, and sounds like an R3 should. It was driven and displayed at an SDC regional meet in Sacramento, May, 2009.
-- Rich

sbca96
07-13-2010, 02:39 AM
"only 10 mph" .. it doesnt seem like much, but when you are talking about 160 vs 170
mph, its a decent amount of HP required between the two. Its not like 60 vs 70 mph.

Tom

Rerun
07-13-2010, 04:21 AM
The picture that shows the roll cage support strut going through the rear seat is interesting. It appears that it would be headed right into the gas tank. Did this vehicle possibly have a fuel cell in the trunk?

Bob Andrews
07-13-2010, 04:32 AM
That car's just begging to be taken out and thrashed...

1952stude
07-13-2010, 10:25 AM
I worked at studebakers when Granatelli came to pick some avantis but i did not see what he did to them because i worked on the 4th floor befor the body met the frams.

Alan
07-13-2010, 11:39 AM
That car belongs to John Hora, here in the L.A. area and one of the founders of the AOIA.

Sdude
07-13-2010, 09:39 PM
The number 9 has recently been moved in the California Automobile Museum. It is now displayed right inside the entrance to the museum in a Bonneville display. It does run and as the pictures show it is in pristine condition. It is John Hora's car.

Go see it.

StudeMichael
09-26-2010, 04:06 PM
Interesting steering wheel. It appears like every other Avanti steering wheel however it has additional grooves in it. Would that be an R3 steering wheel?

kmul221
09-26-2010, 04:40 PM
Could the red one be 63R 5650 that I found & ran in the forum.The owner said the car was red before he painted it white,it was one of 3 experimental cars sent to Granatelli,the owner said he has photos of the car at Salt flats.It hasn,t turned a wheel since 75.Engine # is EX 2132

Mr Speed 53
09-26-2010, 07:09 PM
It is great to sww the the number 9 car is well preserved and in good hands. I am lucky to have an R-3 in my Avanti and was told it was the last one to be built with R-3 heads and has the R-5 pistons in it. The steering wheel in #9 is also very interesting,would like more info on that. Ed

WCP
09-26-2010, 07:53 PM
The steering wheel also appears to be missing the the enlarged hand holds and chrome or SS trim rings bordering that section. It is possible that the wheel is an early prototype, or simply a later recast restoration. I also notice that the induction elbow is missing to the supercharger intake.

Alan
09-26-2010, 10:58 PM
The #8 Red car was owned by a guy named Ray Cash, he was in Burbank. It was number R1014. He sold it sometime in 66. But I don't know to who. I do know that in 1977 it was owned by a Robert A Nicholson of Midwest City OK.

JGK 940
09-26-2010, 11:14 PM
The picture that shows the roll cage support strut going through the rear seat is interesting. It appears that it would be headed right into the gas tank. Did this vehicle possibly have a fuel cell in the trunk?

Absolutely correct.

(I only wanted to say, "Bingo," but the Ghost in the Machine demanded more than ten letters in my reply...)

Gunslinger
09-27-2010, 08:48 AM
The #8 Red car was owned by a guy named Ray Cash, he was in Burbank. It was number R1014. He sold it sometime in 66. But I don't know to who. I do know that in 1977 it was owned by a Robert A Nicholson of Midwest City OK.

The #8 car is a few miles from me in a shop. It's owned by someone living on Maryland's Eastern Shore...not sure of his name or whether he would like his name mentioned even if I was sure of it.

Johnnywiffer
09-27-2010, 10:14 AM
So #9, that went 161 mph on Sears tires, now has Michelins? Wonder if it will go any faster...:) And what happened to the Sears?

John

Alan
09-27-2010, 12:54 PM
John, On Sept. 16, 1963 the #9 car ran,
Flying K. 170.78
Flying Mile 170.75
Flying 5K 170.63
Flying 5M 170.20
Flying 10K 169.96
Flying 10M 166.66
All on the Allstate Bonneville Tires. The car went to a museum where it sat for a while before John Hora bought it.