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View Full Version : FLAT TAPPET OIL (original post deleted)



Original50
02-10-2007, 11:50 PM
Webmaster note: The original post in this thread has been deleted by its author.

StudeRich
02-11-2007, 02:49 AM
Well we have had Oil Co. engineers say the only oil that will protect the flat tappet engines is the Diesel Oil. Seems to be a contraversial subject. I am running Shell Rotella T 30wt. Diesel in all my Studes, so far so good!

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

avantilover
02-11-2007, 03:07 AM
I recall when this issue first appeared on the forum, members mentioned an article in Hot Rod magazine which said to use the Diesel Oil.

John Clements
Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!
Lockleys South Australia

glen
02-11-2007, 07:51 AM
Then I am at a lost with their website eduacation page:
http://www.exummotorsports.com/education_news.html
via a vendor "Comp Cams" that says to use Shell Rotella
T Diesel oil to lubricate our flat tappet cams....So I'll
continue to use it as well.

Good - Day


Glen Brose
East of Chino Valley, AZ
The Home of "Charlene"
53 Champion Tudr Sedan
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/glen_05/StudebakeratBarona.png

sntsftbll
02-11-2007, 09:02 AM
We have used Rottella T in every piece of equipment we have owned since the early 70's. We run tractors, dump trucks (a model TT and a '48 KB5 binder both still making a few deliveries every year)my M5, forklifts and small engines. Air cooled and water cooled industrial engines gasoline and diesel.For example we keep our equipment forever we just retired a '79 ford that was an everyday truck until this year. I have NEVER had an engine go down due to failure of lubrication. Sure we have done rebuilds but only because of normal wear and tear. Now that they have changed Rottella T I hope it performs the same. Not sure what that is worth to you all but I will not change since we have nothing but success with what we use. I know there are a whole lotta peoples smarter than I is, but I won't mess with what works well for me no matter what them smarter peoples knows.:)

chocolate turkey
02-11-2007, 09:43 AM
I've used Chevron 15w-40 Diesel oil for years without any problems....also, heard of many using synthetics without obvious damage done. Problem is some folks only drive 100 miles a year, that ain't enough to do any damage in any engine.....

Brian K. Curtis

Swifster
02-11-2007, 10:34 AM
While I'd prefer the additive package in the Rotella and similar diesel oils, has anyone looked into a 50% mix will regular engine oil?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

Original50
02-11-2007, 12:31 PM
.

glen
02-11-2007, 01:03 PM
Don, I am not disputing his expertise, it's just
when you look at his web site and check the educational
tab....you have another source "Comp Cam's" saying,
what a lot of us have belived over the years, that
Rotella T and other diesel lubricants, are what we
should be using.... There may be equal value on
both sides of the story....but his eduactional tab
is telling a different story that is not in line with
his own personal version.


Glen Brose
East of Chino Valley, AZ
The Home of "Charlene"
53 Champion Tudr Sedan
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g204/glen_05/StudebakeratBarona.png

John Kirchhoff
02-11-2007, 01:24 PM
Maybe Thurman was talking about oils rated for diesels only. If you look on the back of an oil bottle, you'll find a little round printed thing that says "API Service" followed by something like SL, SL-CD or CD. "S" oils are rated for use in gasoline engines, while "C" oils are rated for diesels. I like Castrol but I only use it in gas engines because it's rated SL, or for gas engines only and not diesels. Rotella, or at least the Rotella I put in the Stude is rated for both gas and diesel engines. There are oils that are rated for diesel use only and maybe that's the ones Thurman is talking about. By the way, the second API letter designates the oil's suitability for different engines and conditions. If memory serves me right (and it may not), CC oils are adequate for heavily loaded naturally aspriated diesels while turbocharged diesels need CD oils. That may have changed because they're always changing the letters. the oil I use in my diesel tractors is rated CF-SH, so it's suitable for everything I have on the place (except the Stude, he gets Rotella).

Thurman may also have been talking about old engines that had used non-detergent oils for years. Throw in a high detergent oil and it's going to break loose crud from everywhere.

Original50
02-11-2007, 04:36 PM
.

JDP
02-11-2007, 04:55 PM
From Hot Rod magazine :


Comp Cams swears by Shell Rotella T diesel oil for use in high-performance street cars. It's available in both mineral-based and full-synthetic formulations with both types containing basically the same superior additive package. Rotella viscosities are generally higher than today's modern formulations, but that's not a detriment for classic musclecars. Diesel oils also add a superior detergent package that can keep the piston rings cleaner for better oil consumption control. The drawback, if any, would be on a high-mileage engine where blow-by can cause detergent to accumulate in the combustion chamber, possibly contributing to detonation.
Modern heavy-duty truck diesel oils with lots of ZDDP additives will be marked "CI-4" or "CI-4 Plus." They also easily pass the API Service SL gasoline engine performance test (but due to the high ZDDP content, not the SL chemical composition specs). Such truck oils are an economical and effective solution for flat-tappet longevity, according to many sources.

Even better than diesel oil are specially formulated racing motor oils. Although the most expensive solution, these oils usually contain even more antiwear additives than diesel truck oil, as well as other performance-enhancing ingredients specifically designed for hardcore, high-performance gasoline engine usage. According to Cosworth's Thomas Hayden, some diesel oils may not have friction modifiers that he claims are helpful in preventing piston scuff on high-performance gasoline engines, especially if running modern low multiviscosity oils. But Dan Arcy, technical marketing manager for Shell Lubricants, takes issue with the importance of friction modifiers, which he says "are only present in the very low viscosity GF-4 oils for fuel economy reasons."


64 Commander 2 dr.
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
62 GT Hawk 4 speed
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

Swifster
02-11-2007, 05:24 PM
I find that discussions on oil, filters and gasoline usually fall into the same catagory as talking about politics, religion and sex. Everyone has their own ideas of what works and what doesn't. And I don't think I'd ever be able to change anyones views on any of the six subjects listed above anymore than someone could change mine.

Bon Appetit.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

Dick Steinkamp
02-11-2007, 05:50 PM
quote:Originally posted by Swifster

I find that discussions on oil, filters and gasoline usually fall into the same catagory as talking about politics, religion and sex. Everyone has their own ideas of what works and what doesn't. And I don't think I'd ever be able to change anyones views on any of the six subjects listed above anymore than someone could change mine.



Hey Tom...you've got to throw spark plugs in with those also [}:)] :D



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Original50
02-11-2007, 08:51 PM
.

JDP
02-11-2007, 08:51 PM
The part of the Hot Rod quote that is applicable to your concern:


"Modern heavy-duty truck diesel oils with lots of ZDDP additives will be marked "CI-4" or "CI-4 Plus." They also easily pass the API Service SL gasoline engine performance test"

BTW, we're just having a discussion, no one was rude in expressing their opinion.

64 Commander 2 dr.
64 Daytona HT
63 R2 4 speed GT Hawk (Black) #2
63 Avanti R1
63 Daytona convert
63 Lark 2 door
63 Lark 2 door #2
62 Daytona HT/ 4 speed
62 Lark 2 door
62 GT Hawk 4 speed
60 Lark HT
60 Hawk
59 3E truck
52 Starliner
51 Commander

sntsftbll
02-11-2007, 10:11 PM
I posted a reply to this topic. If I insulted anyone by my reply I apologize! I did not intend to say I disagree with what original50 said or intended. I thought it was a discussion and his opinion. I am sure that the Exums know more than I will ever think of knowing in the properties of oil and it's best uses. But even the Exum's couldn't get anything through my thick skull. My feelings on oil are probably based on the whuppin I took when I bought the wrong oil and my old man let me know in no uncertain terms what oil we would ALWAYS use. I am sorry if what I said chased someone from this forum, I never meant to do that. I have found this place to be incredibly helpful in the short time I have been visiting. Sorry

Swifster
02-11-2007, 10:18 PM
I'm still a believer in synthetic oils (either Mobil 1 or Red Line). But when it comes to feeding a fresh engine or cam, I always listen to the builder/manufacturer for the first round of fluids. I guess I'm just an idiot[:o)]. But I've never had an engine or camshaft failure either:D.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

John Kirchhoff
02-11-2007, 10:36 PM
For me, the reduced levels of zinc in modern oils has been a concern to me for several years. Motorcycle engines with a unitized crankcase-transmission use the same engine oil to lubricate the transmission and for several years there has been concern about accelerated transmission wear. It seems that maybe I should be using the same CI-4 oil I use in my diesel tractors in my bike rather than just a CD or CF oil. Then again, *** bike engines and transmissions tend to be overbuilt and I've yet to have a problem, so maybe the potential tranny wear is mostly a concern on modified or hard ridden machines.

And Don, if you're still there, don't get so bent out of shape over something so trivial. I'm sure it's not trivial to you and I don't blame you for wanting to protect your rather sizable investment. And as you implied, if everyone that's not following Thurman's sage advice have engines flying apart, well, that's their problem. No insult intended whatsoever, but you remind me of myself last year when I talked myself blue in the face trying to keep my oldest son on the straight and narrow. Very frustrating to say the least and I finally resigned myself to shutting up letting him screw his life up himself. The problem with a kid having a 146 IQ is that while it's true they're smarter than many people, their fallacy is believing they're smarter than everyone. Fortunately, he's finally started figuring that out. So Don, my advice is there's a time to stop talking and instead, stand back and watch while nature take its course. Only then will you figure out if you were barking up the right tree or not.

Swifster
02-11-2007, 10:56 PM
“S”- SERVICE CLASSIFICATIONS FOR GASOLINE ENGINES

SH- For 1994 Gasoline Engine Service

Classification SH was adopted in 1992 and recommended for gasoline engines in passenger cars and light trucks starting in 1993 model year. This category supercedes the performance requirements of API SG specification for 1989-1992 models, which is now obsolete. Applications that call for an API service classification SG can use the SH specification. The specification addresses issues with deposit control, oxidation, corrosion, rust and wear and replaces.

SJ- For 1997 Gasoline Engine Service

Classification SJ was adopted in 1996 and recommended for gasoline engines in passenger cars and light trucks starting in 1997 model year. Applications specifying API SH can use the newer API SJ service classification. Note that where applicable certain letters in the sequence will be skipped to prevent confusion with other standards. In this case, SI was skipped since industrial oils are currently rated according to SI classifications.

SL- For 2001 Gasoline Engine Service

Recommended for gasoline engines in passenger cars and light trucks starting in July 2001. SL oils are engineered to provide improved high temperature deposit control and lower oil consumption. Applications specifying API SJ can use the new API SL service classification. Note that some SL rated oils may also meet the latest ILSAC specification and/or qualify as energy conserving. SL is the latest specification.

SM- For 2004 and newer Gasoline Engine Service Automotive Engines (Current Spec)


This specification was introduced in Nov. 2004. SM oils are engineered to provide improved oxidation resistance, improved deposit and wear protection and improved low temperature performance. Note that some SM rated motor oils may also meet the current ILSAC specification.


“C”- COMMERCIAL CLASSIFICATIONS FOR DIESEL ENGINES

CF-For 1994 Off-Road Indirect Injected Diesel Engine Service

API Service Category CF denotes service typical of off-road, indirect injected diesel engines and other diesel engines that use a broad range of fuel types, including those using fuel with higher sulfur content (over 0.5% wt sulfur fuel). Effective control of piston deposits, wear and corrosion of copper-containing bearings is essential for these engines, which may be naturally aspirated, turbocharged or supercharged. Oils designated for this service may also be used when API Service Category CD or CE is recommended. CF is a current specification.

CF-2- FOR 1994 Severe Duty 2-Stroke Cycle Diesel Engine Service

API Service Category CF-2 denotes service typical of two-stroke cycle engines (such as Detroit Diesel) requiring highly effective control over cylinder and ring-face scuffing and deposits. Oils designated for this service have been in existence since 1994 and may also be used when API Service Category CD-II is recommended. These oils do not necessarily meet the requirements of CF or CF-4, unless they pass the test and performance requirements for these categories. CF-2 is a current specification.

CF-4- For 1990 Diesel Engine Service

Service typical of severe duty turbocharged, 4-stroke cycle diesel engines, particularly late models designed to give lower emissions. These engines are usually found in on-highway, heavy-duty truck applications. API CF-4 oils exceed the requirement of CE category oils and can be used in place of earlier CC, CD and CE oils. CF-4 oils provide for improved control of piston deposits and oil consumption.

The CF-4 classification meets Caterpillar’s 1k engine requirements, as well as earlier Mack Trucks (T-6 & T-7) and Cummins (NTC-400) multi-cylinder engine test criteria. When combined with the appropriate “S” category, they can be used in gasoline and diesel powered cars and light trucks as specified by the vehicle and/or engine manufacturer.

CG-4- For 1995 Severe Duty Diesel Engine Service

API Service Category CG-4 describes oils

showbizkid
02-11-2007, 10:58 PM
Well said, John. There's no need to get so hotted up - after all, this is a discussion forum. We're all free to disagree with each other - but we're not free to be uncivil. We've all got the same goal in mind: to care for and preserve our cars. Different folks choose to take different approaches to doing that, but it doesn't mean they're mortal enemies.


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

Kdancy
02-12-2007, 07:35 AM
Chevron Delo® 400 Multigrade Heavy Duty Motor Oil

Universal Protection for Turbocharged and Supercharged Diesel and Gasoline EnginesWith Chevron's Delo® 400 Multigrade heavy duty motor oil, you're using an industry-leading, premium-quality, "universal" engine oil that exceeds the performance requirements of naturally aspirated, turbocharged and supercharged diesel and gasoline engines. It provides outstanding protection in existing and new engines, using low or normal sulfur fuels. It is unsurpassed in soot dispersancy, wear protection and sludge control to guard against loss of engine life and to help reduce fuel and oil consumption.

Delo® 400 Multigrade Heavy Duty Motor Oil 15W-40 Performance

First oil to allow the diesel engines of the three leading U.S. manufacturers to run for over 1,000,000 miles without an overhaul.
It exceeds the tougher performance standards for the new API CH-4 service classification of modern, electronically controlled, low-emission engines.
It exceeds the performance requirements of the Mack EO-M Plus, Cummins CES 20076 and Volvo VDS-2 specifications.
Its exclusive ISODEWAXING technology rivals synthetics in critical engine tests.
It offers an optimal blend of dispersants, detergents, oxidation inhibitors, antiwear, corrosion inhibitors, viscosity improvers and defoaming additives.

Original50
02-12-2007, 12:38 PM
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sntsftbll
02-12-2007, 02:54 PM
Talk about narrowed minded! Yes you put in alot of research in an area you must be having trouble with. You passed along info you know to be true and intended it to benefit all who read your post. Yes, Mr Exum knows more about oil than I will ever know or intend to know. He has more degrees after his name than I will ever have or my kids may ever have; perhaps you do also. I for one never said he or you were wrong and I am sure you are correct. If having over 30 years of field experience with all types of engines under harsh dusty conditions with a lack of regular maintenance during the busiest times of our years. When oil changes are needed most and done the least due to other demands on time has made me a loyalist to an oil that has served me very well then I stand guilty of being the idiot you accuse me of being. I will continue to be that idiot as long as my equipment continues to run and provide for the 4 families our small business supports. If not for equipment serving us well and that includes the oils we use to maintain that equipment, my business would cease to be. I wouldn't expect or try to persuade you to use the Rottella T that I will continue to use regardless of the additive change and would not be upset if you did not agree with my opinion,(you don't) which I think is based on sound judgement also, experience is a great teacher. To call other people names, to rant and be mad that others have opinions that don't agree with yours is childish to say the least. I find it hard not to retaliate to the name calling, I resent it! You don't know me and although you may very well be right in your assesment of me being an idiot you have stepped over a line that should not be crossed in any forum let alone this one. It is okay not to agree with each other it is not okay to get personal, no one did with you. Talk about narrow minded.

Roscomacaw
02-12-2007, 03:57 PM
"I'm gonna hang around so that I can someday say, "I told you so" when yaw wouldn't listen now :)"

Geez Don. This is a forum, not a dictators pulpit. Chill out.

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

John Kirchhoff
02-12-2007, 03:57 PM
I agree with sntsftbll, there's business and then there's personal. If you tell me that you consider what I believe is wrong, that's fine. Tell me I'm wrong for believing what I believe and that's personal. Don, I believe you to be a very intelligent, logical, analytical minded person. In fact, you come across as being much like my father who just happened to be a perfectionist among other things. And while he was seldom wrong, his flaw was thinking he could never be wrong. As Mr. Biggs put it, chill out. I'm sure your blood pressure will go down, you'll live much longer and therefore be able to enjoy your cars much longer. Besides, your input can be of benefit to all of us but please let everyone make and express their own opinion. An old man once told me, "Opinions are like rear ends, everyone has one and they're all different".

Swifster
02-12-2007, 10:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by Swifster

I find that discussions on oil, filters and gasoline usually fall into the same catagory as talking about politics, religion and sex. Everyone has their own ideas of what works and what doesn't. And I don't think I'd ever be able to change anyones views on any of the six subjects listed above anymore than someone could change mine.




Hmmm, let me post this one more time. And as Dick mentioned, include spark plugs in the above list :D.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom - Valrico, FL

1964 Studebaker Daytona

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i280/Swifster/1965_Studebaker_Commander_front198x.jpg

oldvinyl
02-14-2007, 01:48 PM
My personal experiences with oils stems from actual full on race Oval trackers that pull down 7500 RPMS all day long. So far one of the finest oils Ive used was based on Timken pull testing. The Oil was made by southwest petroluem products, SWEPCO. Its availiable in graphite formula, I use this along with GM OES suppliment. Another very good product is Castrol syntec, inspite of what you hear, this is a very good synthetic oil. The timken testing is not always a fair guide either, We dont see steel on steel parts in race engines other than roller tappets/cams. Aluminum parts such as bearings piston skirts and also piston rings live better with most high end synthetic race oils. I have used rottella T aswell, however I find it to be a very good oil when you use all of your throttle. Because rottella sheds heat so well, like EOS additive it is not the greatest product to use in gasoline motors on the street on a steady basis. Some of the new "Zero" weight race oils have been developed and show spectacular merrit. At Bonneville last August a few cars were running it. It has proven to shed heat at greater rate without any buildup of deposits and especially at ring land areas. New things are happening in oils, and no matter what you see and hear use a product that is tailored to your specific needs. Any SAE engine oil of high rating is good for your Stude, Keep it clean. Tom Osborne

Original50
02-14-2007, 06:24 PM
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StudeRich
02-14-2007, 07:18 PM
Interesting site Don, but I read only a few Synthetic supporters and mostly the Old Shell Rotella T API Spec. CI-4 and even the new CJ-4 is considered to be one of the highest levels of ZDDP additives available. One states that Synthetics have none, only substitutes. Some day we will know the truth as to which ones really protect our cams & lifters, I hope not the hard way!

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

GTtim
02-14-2007, 09:52 PM
Your information is appreciated, but your attitude isn't!

"I'm gonna hang around so that I can someday say, "I told you so" when yaw wouldn't listen now " :)


This is actually a good thing, as the more disagreeable people leave the forum, the more agreeable the forum becomes.

"I'm outta here. I won't be coming back to this site 'cause I'm conversing with idiots!"

Tim K.
'64 R2 Hawk

oldvinyl
02-14-2007, 10:18 PM
Oils are not as complicated as you might think, Within SAE standards you will find oils to suit every need, from street use to all out top fuel dragster thrashing. There is really no need to dig very deep. Additives and tricks of the trade such as GM EOS are but a few. If your street engine starts making noises with Rotella chances are that the hydraulic tappets cant deal with thicker viscosity. Seen this especially true on some OHC motors from GM. Tom O.

60Lark
02-15-2007, 01:05 AM
I usually avoid the controversial threads, but not this time. I fully agree with you Tim, If opinions can't be posted with-out verbal abuse and name calling, I feel the forum will be far better off with-out the disgruntled and disagreeable ones ever posting. After reading through this thread a couple of times, it looks to me as though this thread was started to provoke a disagreement. Just my Opinion [xx(][xx(][xx(][xx(]

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6ce20b3127cce8d0e3b50356c00000000400CcNWTlozYsb http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b6dc03b3127cce970d7aafd15f00000010100CcNWTlozYsb
Studebaker Fever
60 Lark
51 Champion
Phil
Arnold, Missouri

John Kirchhoff
02-15-2007, 10:14 AM
There seems to be a lot of concern over the oil-flat tappet situation. I've had no experience with tappet wear nor am I as knowledgable as most of you other folks are. The only reason I'm mentioning this is because of the experience I've had with my motorcycle engine. It has double overhead cams with the cam lobes riding directly on clearance shims that are located on top of buckets which fit over the valve stem and valve spring assembly. I swapped the engine out this spring after more miles than most bikes will ever see. For the previous 5-6 years I used Castrol 20-50 exclusively which incidently was/is a "S" rated oil for gasoline engines only...not diesels. The engine is air cooled and I'd had an oil temp guage on it for years. In the summertime the oil temp was almost always 200-225 degrees and in very hot weather and hard running it was not uncommon for the temp to reach 250-260 degrees, hotter than most petroleum based oils should be and definately hotter than a water cooled engine's oil will be. I'd change oil every 3000-4000 miles which probably wasn't often enough either. The engine uses double valve springs, one inside the other and either one by itself is considerabaly stiffer than a Stude valve spring. The cam lobe is about the same width as a Stude cam but the lift is higher which means a greater shearing action when the valve is opened. When I take into consideration the bike engine turned 2.1 times as fast as the average Stude engine at a given speed, the cam had opened the valves enough times to equal 227,000 Stude miles. And you know what? After all those miles of opening valve springs very much stiffer than Stude springs with oil hotter than it should have been, the same oil that was also lubricating the transmission and front bevel gears and having no repairs whatsoever, when I removed the engine from service the cams were still in great shape. Absolutely no pitting or scoring on the cam lobes or shims and 6 of the 8 shims had never been removed or changed during the life of the bike. When I think about the conditions the oil endured in my bike engine, if Stude or other makes of engines are experiencing tappet wear, it makes me think that maybe the problem is more the tappets or cams than the oil. The only possibility I can think of is if cam makers back then didn't put clearance ramps on cams to take up the slack before the lobe slammed the valve open, but that shouldn't really matter much with engines that use hydraulic lifters. I'm not saying tappet wear doesn't exist, but it makes me wonder if we're barking up the wrong tree when we blame oils.

StudeRich
02-15-2007, 04:48 PM
Thanks for sharing your Motorcycle experience with us John, it is quite interesting in spite of the major differences in those engines vs a Stude. V-8 with solid lifters some things show that oil would do a fine job of protecting a Stude. engine.

However there is one major fault in those facts. Todays Automotive engine oil as of about Sept/Oct. 2006 is NO LONGER WHAT IT WAS!
The oil that protected your Yamaha/Honda will no longer do that good a job becuase the &^%^%$#@*()+ FEDS and tree huggers have ruined it for us! The ZDDP additives that were in that Castrol are gone! That is the big issue with the flat tappet engines anyway, you have overhead cam, those and roller lifter engines will not suffer from the change, the Oil Co.'s are thinking there are not enough hot rods with 350 Chev. engines and old Studebakers etc. out there to even issue a WARNING LABEL!! duh!! WHAT ARE THEY THINKING? [xx(] [xx(] Even Jack in the Box warns you that: "Coffee is HOT do not spill it on yourself"! :)

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

John Kirchhoff
02-15-2007, 05:35 PM
Nowlet's not get all riled up...don't you know the tree huggers, Liberals and government are just looking out for our own best interests? Ha!

Sometimes government can be extremely myopic. A few years ago Missouri's department of conservation re-introduced river otters into the state after being extinct for many decades. On the surface, that sounds great until you realize the only natural predators an otter has is a wolf or black bear, neither of which Missouri has. So that means the otter population has exploded and when one finds your pond, they literally eat every fish in it after which they move on to the next poor sucker's pond. It cost me $350 to stock my pond and I sure don't want to feed the state's stupid otters. Typical government!

Jessie J.
02-15-2007, 07:25 PM
Sounds like there would be a market for an oil additive containing ZDDP ? or would it be illegal?

Chucks Stude
02-16-2007, 07:43 AM
My thoughts exactly, Jessie.

oldvinyl
02-16-2007, 09:06 AM
60 Lark, Great sentiment. As for the motorcycle issue, I also put on well over 500,000 miles on bikes in my early years I concur with you there., One thing I positively aggree with beyond a shadow of doubt is that all stock valve springed Stude engines dont have many camshaft issues period. these are superp wide chrysler footprint tappets on V8s, the first early Stude V8s had even wider footprint, All 6 cylinders have fantastic mushroom tappets that just last forever. Valve spring pressures are very weak open as compared to most other motors. you usually get valve float above 4800 RPM, this should tell ya something. I dont check in very often on this site, but I must say this, Regardless of differences of opinion, brutally rude comments have no place in our forums. This is not a place for arm wrestling,Go duke it out down behind the church, There are no Idiots here. perhaps a few insecure gents that need a little woman lovin.