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studepilot
02-09-2007, 09:36 PM
I am in the process of restoring a 1950 Land Cruiser with the big six engine. The engine crank won't budge. How do I best go about freeing it up. I've put marvel mystery oil in each cylinder, Lubegard Free-Eze, and kerosene (based on the advice of a parts store "expert"), all to no avail. Help!!

Dick Steinkamp
02-09-2007, 10:02 PM
There are probably 30 other "home remedies" for freeing a stuck engine. What you are trying sounds as good as any of them to me [^].

Some stuck engines can't be unstuck (without disassembly and maybe even breaking some parts).

Give it more time. Try some of the other remedies that surface here.

If all else fails, someone here can probably find you another big 6.



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

rockne10
02-09-2007, 10:47 PM
How long since it ran? How long has it been "soaking"? Patience may prevail. Also a better leverage point, like a prybar to the ring gear, but only after some patience. And, as Dick said, some may only come apart by coming apart. Then there's the one from the 37 Coupe Express that was a lost cause. We used it to help fill the gap created by a collapsed septic tank.[^]

Brad Johnson
Pine Grove Mills, Pa.
33 Rockne 10
51 commander Starlight
53 Commander Starlight
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g233/rockne10/ddc714b7.jpg

Neal in NM
02-09-2007, 11:26 PM
If the piston is not aluminum you could try TREACLE. Pour it down the spark plug holes and let it soak for about a week that will disolve the rust. Assuming that rusty rings are the problem and not a frozen bearing or another issue. Neal

studelover
02-10-2007, 01:07 AM
I am doing the same thing you are at this time however I am doing it with a v8 if you have a stick car you could put it in gear and pull it. I would do this after letting it soak for two or three weeks. If the valves are stuck you will bend them. I have made up my mind to rebuild thw motor anyway, I have a 6cly stude as well and I see what it cost to rebuild them. I wish you luck!

Studebakers forever!

chocolate turkey
02-10-2007, 09:32 AM
I have a 259 V-8 that had 8 stuck pistons. I put the thing on an engine stand and then lined the valley with tin foil. Then, loaded the valley with BBQ briquettes and lit them. 3hrs later, 4 of the pistons came out in one piece. I'll do it again one day soon to finish the job:D

Brian K. Curtis

64V-K7
02-10-2007, 09:48 AM
I believe the 50 sixes had lubrited pistons, which were iron, with some kind of a zinc coating to absorb oil and make them slide better. The coating does wear off and make it iron to iron, after a while. So, you probably have a pretty rigid situation, not to mention the rings.
There are penetrants that just penetrate and others that help dissolve rust. One is PB Blaster, I think or Seafoam ( NAPA). Might take a while to get it throughly soaked and you do have to exert some force on the crank.
I never heard of the charcoal idea, but that's what innovators do best... might work...

ST2DE5
02-10-2007, 10:40 AM
There is a preacher whose name is Studebaker. Believe it or not. He takes a stuck engine and fills it to the top with diesel. And marvel in the spark plug holes and lets it set for a while. I've seen a lot engines that he has got loose. If nothing else works you might try it.



Carl

Jeff_H
02-10-2007, 10:48 AM
A few years ago I came across someones web page where they really wanted that stuck engine apart. They took the engine apart but pistons were stuck in the bores. So, they built some sort of oven around the block and hung weights off the ends of the connecting rods with the crankshaft removed. Eventually the combination of the weight pulling and the heat swelling the bores was enough to pull out the pistons! I've also heard stories about using wood blocks and large hammers to beat the pistons out.

In my own experience I bought a '65 ford from a salvage yard auction some years back. It had been there about 20yrs and the V8 was stuck. I filled the cylinders with cheap automatic trans oil and let it sit about 4 months over the winter. That spring, I got the crank to turn a few degrees and left it for a couple more weeks. I did this a couple times and eventually got it to turn freely. It didn't help the stuck valves tho and some of the push rods bent. I even had it running (badly, but running none the less) later.

Jeff in ND

'53 Champion Hardtop

HNCadet
02-10-2007, 11:05 AM
quote:Originally posted by 55Prez

There are penetrants that just penetrate and others that help dissolve rust. One is PB Blaster, I think or Seafoam ( NAPA). Might take a while to get it throughly soaked and you do have to exert some force on the crank.



Have not tried this on stuck pistons, but I just finished this on an old rusted stuck distributor. Bought some EVAPO-RUST at Auto Zone(local distributor) poured it in a small bucket, put the distributor in overnite and it chelated all the rusted iron particles into solution, rinsed it off with water and there was NO RUST left on the dist!!!! Amazing stuff! I may buy this in 5 Gal buckets.

Roscomacaw
02-10-2007, 05:14 PM
I've got a 289 here on an engine stand. A fella gave me this engine about 6 or 8 years ago. It was stuck solid!
I kept pouring in a bit of auto tranny fliud thru time. Every once in awhile I'd take a wedge a BIG lever-bar between the rear crankshaft bolts and try to turn it. No go, so a little more oil and forget about it for some months. After about 4 years, I put the bar in and yanked at it pretty good. It MOVED!
Now it's still sitting on the stand - waiting for a reason to be revived and put back on the road! Maybe I'll put it in an envelope and mail it to Swifster[:o)]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

John Kirchhoff
02-10-2007, 10:39 PM
So Brian, I hope you cooked a few hamburgers while you had your V8 BBQ grill fired up. I've put dry sleeves in the freezer to ease installation but never heard of cooking the pistons out!

I had two stuck pistons in a 232 and had to beat them out with an oak block and sledge hammer. While I applaud the patience some of you folks have, if the pistons are stuck so badly that it takes forever to get them out, I personally think it's a lot of wasted effort. Not getting them out, but to think the rings and pistons will be servicable. I've removed such pistons several times and it's not the aluminum piston that's stuck to the cylinder, it's the corrosion formed by electrolysis that swells the rings tightly against the cylinder wall. I've never been able to salvage the piston because the ring was impossible to remove without causing extensive damage to the ring lands. However, I do like the idea of having a cookout in a Stude block.........

rockne10
02-10-2007, 11:52 PM
quote:I've also heard stories about using wood blocks and large hammers to beat the pistons out.


Done that!:D

Kurt
02-11-2007, 07:53 AM
Last year I began restoring a Ford 2N tractor that had sat for years with the head off. All four pistons were stuck solid. I soaked it with diesel fuel for a month and then after none of them would budge I soaked them for another month with PB Blaster. I was able to get them out with the oak sledgehammer method after that. Patience is the key here, don't get in a hurry. The down side was after all of that the block was junk. It had a hole in it hiding behind one of the sleeves. My point is even if you get it apart it might still be junk.

Jeff_H
02-11-2007, 08:51 AM
Yup, the phosphoric acid is the active ingredient. I used to buy "oxysolv" sold by Eastwood to derust small parts. Its basically diluted phosphoric acid. A couple years ago I happened to be browsing around the vet and dairy supplies area of a farm store and found gallon jugs of milking machine cleaner concentrate. Its also phosphoric acid with some detergent. Per gallon, much cheaper than the oxysolv and more concentrated too.

While it will dissolve rust, it also dissolves the steel too (at a slower rate). I accidentally left some thin washers I was derusting with this stuff overnight and they simply dissappeared! Always pull out the parts and check progress regularily....



Jeff in ND
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/ee-engineer/53byalaketiny.jpg
'53 Champion Hardtop

53k
02-11-2007, 09:00 AM
quote:Originally posted by studepilot

I am in the process of restoring a 1950 Land Cruiser with the big six engine. The engine crank won't budge. How do I best go about freeing it up. I've put marvel mystery oil in each cylinder, Lubegard Free-Eze, and kerosene (based on the advice of a parts store "expert"), all to no avail. Help!!

I have heard (but not tried) that filling the cylinders with Pepsi or Coca Cola (not diet versions) and leaving is sit for a few days will free the pistons. It may not be as outlandish as it sounds because if you see what the phosphoric acid in Coke will do to a nail dropped in the bottle and left for a few days... A few years ago I got an email about what all you could do with Coke. One suggestion was to rub rusty chrome with aluminum foil dipped in Coke. I tried it on a rusty bumper on my '47 Commander and, while they didn't look like new, they did shine up much better after the treatment.



[img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/R-4.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64L.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64P.jpg[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/53K.jpg[/img=right]Paul Johnson
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine

bob40
02-11-2007, 11:18 AM
I have used Coca Cola several times on tractor engines and it worked just fine.Never tried it on a automobile.

63larkcustom
02-11-2007, 12:51 PM
Well.. not to sound pessimistic, but I've just gone through this with my 63 Lark 6cyl. I tried the diesel/marvel mixture.. no go. Next I tried coke/marvel mixture..big mess. Finally I had the engine pulled and we had to beat out number three and four pistons with a mallet and 2x4. These pistons ended up in pieces, but the walls were not damaged. I hope you have better luck with the mixture than I did. But if not, keep in mind the Studey block is very strong so even if you have to pound one or more out, The cylinder walls should survive.

bradnree
02-11-2007, 05:13 PM
I am in the process of freeing two stuck valves. One has loosened using Marvel and kerosene. The second one is stuck stuck stuck. A friend of mine who has been a mechanic for 40 years uses this method for valves that are stuck then unstuck and then you put the head back on and they are stuck again: Use a large hose from a running car tailpipe to tailpipe and pump the heat into the stuck valve engine. Use this method outside. The valves will loosen...... do this OUTSIDE. Carb or brake cleaner will loosen stuck valves. Read the labels and see the 3 main ingredients.........Brad

Dick Steinkamp
02-11-2007, 06:19 PM
quote:Originally posted by bradnree
Use a large hose from a running car tailpipe to tailpipe and pump the heat into the stuck valve engine.


I'm having a hard time visualizing this working. If you hold your hand over the end of a tailpipe of a running car, it's generally not hot enough to make you remove your hand. Then if it's piped an equal distance back to the motor of the car with the stuck valve, it will be even cooler (maybe close to ambient by then). I really can't see how this would provide enough heat to expand metal.



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

studelover
02-11-2007, 07:24 PM
maybe it's not the heat as much as it's the humidity;)

Studebakers forever!

bradnree
02-11-2007, 08:52 PM
I have not personally tried it. Just passing it along as a possibility. I've been burned by the end of a tailpipe. If it works it works if it doesn't it doesn't. Maybe it heats the varnish, sludge or whatever ?.......Brad
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp


quote:Originally posted by bradnree
Use a large hose from a running car tailpipe to tailpipe and pump the heat into the stuck valve engine.


I'm having a hard time visualizing this working. If you hold your hand over the end of a tailpipe of a running car, it's generally not hot enough to make you remove your hand. Then if it's piped an equal distance back to the motor of the car with the stuck valve, it will be even cooler (maybe close to ambient by then). I really can't see how this would provide enough heat to expand metal.



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Kdancy
02-12-2007, 07:54 AM
quote:Originally posted by Jeff_H

Yup, the phosphoric acid is the active ingredient. I used to buy "oxysolv" sold by Eastwood to derust small parts. Its basically diluted phosphoric acid. A couple years ago I happened to be browsing around the vet and dairy supplies area of a farm store and found gallon jugs of milking machine cleaner concentrate. Its also phosphoric acid with some detergent. Per gallon, much cheaper than the oxysolv and more concentrated too.

While it will dissolve rust, it also dissolves the steel too (at a slower rate). I accidentally left some thin washers I was derusting with this stuff overnight and they simply dissappeared! Always pull out the parts and check progress regularily....
Jeff in ND
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t5/ee-engineer/53byalaketiny.jpg
'53 Champion Hardtop


There is no acid in Evapo-rust. Oxysolv is a different product.
http://www.orisonmarketing.com/corrosion/evaporust/evapo-rust.html

bradnree
02-12-2007, 07:18 PM
For those of you in the Midwest. I found EvapoRust at Orscheln's (farm store) for $20. per gallon............Brad

greener_dude
02-13-2007, 11:48 PM
This is a cool topic. I have a olds 455 v8, probably sat for a good 10 to 12 years. I did all the tricks I could think of... it was siezed. After wasting months for chemicals to work magic, I finialy got out the hammer and block of wood and bashed the pistons out individually. Looking back on it I was an idiot to try and free it up using chemicals because it was an impractacle method. Rings were seized, bearings were siezed... even writs pins! Another hint that I wasnt going to unsieze it was that it had very little oil in the pan meaning someone could have damaged it just by starving the engine oil. The engine was still good for parts but i ended up buying another engine that wasnt siezed... much cheaper then rebuilding $$$ none the less a good learning experience. Moral of the story dont waste your time working on the impossible it only delays the completion of your project which cuts into time you could have been driving your car/truck.

bradnree
02-14-2007, 07:21 AM
You are right. I guess it is the challenge of seeing what will work or won't work. Too bad we don't have someone test all of the products we guess will work and tell us what will work. We could fill one post with the products and cocktails that have been tried to loosen an engine. We know the inevitable is needed. Tear the engine down and rebuild, but isn't it fun experimenting.......Brad
quote:Originally posted by greener_dude

This is a cool topic. I have a olds 455 v8, probably sat for a good 10 to 12 years. I did all the tricks I could think of... it was siezed. After wasting months for chemicals to work magic, I finialy got out the hammer and block of wood and bashed the pistons out individually. Looking back on it I was an idiot to try and free it up using chemicals because it was an impractacle method. Rings were seized, bearings were siezed... even writs pins! Another hint that I wasnt going to unsieze it was that it had very little oil in the pan meaning someone could have damaged it just by starving the engine oil. The engine was still good for parts but i ended up buying another engine that wasnt siezed... much cheaper then rebuilding $$$ none the less a good learning experience. Moral of the story dont waste your time working on the impossible it only delays the completion of your project which cuts into time you could have been driving your car/truck.

studelover
02-14-2007, 10:18 AM
You just never know,I have had good things happen. We all want the best for our projects plus all the things that happen in a project make for good stories at the car show. I have had some motors come free and start[^] they say stude motors are the best.

Studebakers forever!