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John and Tracy Smith
02-08-2010, 07:23 PM
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv199/johnandtracysmith/IMG_6120.jpg

After cleaning the surface of the engine block on the Lark wagon where we thought the engine number would be located, all we found was a 25. Can anyone enlighten us? Thanks in advance! :)

John and Tracy Smith
Queen Creek Arizona
http://1955studebaker.blogspot.com/

[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/IMG_3130.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/IMG_3159.jpg http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN5167.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN1027-1-1.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN1034-1.jpg

N8N
02-08-2010, 07:24 PM
I can't explain the "25" but a keystone with no serial number usually indicates a service replacement block.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

62champ
02-08-2010, 07:32 PM
IIRC, the engine number on the flathead six is located on a machined area just below the head above where the generator is mounted (ie - driver's side).

Now, if I am wrong, someone will help out.

By the way - I am jealous - great looking car.

<center>60S-W4 - 7E7-122
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/th_DSC00096.jpghttp://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/62%20E7-122/th_DSC02236.jpg</center>

StudeRich
02-08-2010, 07:43 PM
I remember someone in John's other post telling him the pad faces UP! The way I remember them, they are a narrow little raised pad near the top front left corner all right, but ON THE SIDE of the block facing LEFT! [:0]

That pad appears to face UP and have a curve up at the rear!
The mark is just an inspector's # stamp. :)

One or more of us are wrong, but that's OK, as long as John finds the Engine Serial number!

It COULD be a new factory replacement block without a Serial, but the H.D. Truck Engines had a cloverleaf to identify them, not a Keystone. [^]

In this case it may be better to use the block casting number, or the "Date Code" someone mentioned is on all Stude. cast blocks, to get an idea of WHEN it was cast or for what year model.

When all is said and done, we all know what is 99% likely to be the case, that is: it's a 170 C.I. Flathead, probably a 1960 or same replacement!!! It does NOT matter at all! :)
The only other Engine it COULD be, is a 185 C.I. Six, with a whopping 11 more exaggerated, advertised HP!
StudeRich

Dick Steinkamp
02-08-2010, 07:45 PM
I'm having a real hard time visualizing where that "25" is stamped. Can you back up and show a pic of the area around the "25"?

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/1963%20Avanti/pics005-1.jpg

John and Tracy Smith
02-08-2010, 08:17 PM
Here's another look from farther back. Thank you for you help!
http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv199/johnandtracysmith/IMG_6122.jpg

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv199/johnandtracysmith/IMG_6121.jpg

John and Tracy Smith
Queen Creek Arizona
http://1955studebaker.blogspot.com/

[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/IMG_3130.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/IMG_3159.jpg http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN5167.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN1027-1-1.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN1034-1.jpg

Guido
02-08-2010, 08:20 PM
The number should be stamped into the edge (side) of the machined pad, not the top.

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/63/663/9/36/86/2567936860097493054TXiheL_th.jpgGuido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful" and real Studebaker horsepower lives

See pictures here: http://community.webshots.com/user/GuidoSalvage

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

Dick Steinkamp
02-08-2010, 08:28 PM
quote:Originally posted by Guido

The number should be stamped into the edge (side) of the machined pad, not the top.




Yes...the pad where the arrow on your top photo is pointing.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/1963%20Avanti/pics005-1.jpg

Guido
02-08-2010, 08:33 PM
quote:Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp
Yes...the pad where the arrow on your top photo is pointing.
Dick,

I just noticed John has a tag stating "nothing here either" inside that arrow. [?]

Gary

http://thumb14.webshots.net/t/63/663/9/36/86/2567936860097493054TXiheL_th.jpgGuido Salvage - "Where rust is beautiful" and real Studebaker horsepower lives

See pictures here: http://community.webshots.com/user/GuidoSalvage

Hiding and preserving Studebakers in Richmond, Goochland & Louisa, Va.

jackb
02-08-2010, 08:36 PM
you have a replacement block from SASCO or from old SASCO....You will have no number.

starliner62
02-08-2010, 08:41 PM
That makes the car worth absolutely nothing.[}:)][}:)] I'll fly out and take it off of your hands this weekend!!:D

Jamie McLeod
Hope Mills, NC

John and Tracy Smith
02-08-2010, 08:57 PM
Aw, thanks, Jamie, but we're a little attached to her. Guess we'll keep the old girl in spite of her flaws! :) Thanks for the information, everyone. So, just out of curiosity, does the fact that it's a replacement block matter in the grand scheme of things?

John and Tracy Smith
Queen Creek Arizona
http://1955studebaker.blogspot.com/

[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/IMG_3130.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/IMG_3159.jpg http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN5167.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN1027-1-1.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN1034-1.jpg

ozarkman
02-08-2010, 09:00 PM
Just get a stamp set from Harbor Freight!;)

From deep in the Ozarks...

Fred

http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af137/ozarklark/OzarkTtrailLogoSmall.jpghttp://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af137/ozarklark/P1140079.jpg http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af137/ozarklark/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg

tbredehoft
02-08-2010, 09:01 PM
No. I don't think a judge (at a Studebaker function) would penalize you for having a replacement block.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
'55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
....On the road, again....
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All Indiana built cars

Dick Steinkamp
02-08-2010, 09:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by John and Tracy Smith
So, just out of curiosity, does the fact that it's a replacement block matter in the grand scheme of things?




No...not one iota. It's just interesting info. The lack of a number is just as interesting [^]

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/1963%20Avanti/pics005-1.jpg

jclary
02-08-2010, 09:05 PM
You started this thread with "What are we missing?"...I say you are probably missing a tired worn out and probably broken old engine. Rejoice in what you have and don't fret about what you are missing. Enjoy your new family member. I think you brought it to a good home.:):):)

John Clary
Greer, SC
http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u346/jconln/HPIM0372-2.jpg
Life... is what happens as you are making plans.
SDC member since 1975

StudeRich
02-08-2010, 09:39 PM
Did ya read my post John and or Tracy?

Quote: When all is said and done, we all know what is 99% likely to be the case, that is: it's a 170 C.I. Flathead, probably a 1960 or same replacement!!! It does NOT matter at all! Unquote.

Just enjoy it! [:p] [^]
I love it! :)

StudeRich

starliner62
02-08-2010, 09:49 PM
I'm glad you guys have a sense of humor. Actually, I think you did real good with your wagon. I like 62 wagons and there's a couple of them close to me. When the guy that owns them decides that they are not worth what he thinks they are, maybe I can get one of them.

Jamie McLeod
Hope Mills, NC

John and Tracy Smith
02-08-2010, 10:16 PM
StudeRich, we're embarrassed to say that we missed that part of your original post...probably because we were running out to the garage with a flashlight to check the other location! :D You know how we get all excited and caught up in things!

We really do appreciate everyone's support on here. We got so lucky with this wagon, it's unbelievable. Of course, the longer we have her, the more questions we'll have. It wouldn't be half as much fun without our Forum friends here to help! :)

John and Tracy Smith
Queen Creek Arizona
http://1955studebaker.blogspot.com/

[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/IMG_3130.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/IMG_3159.jpg http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN5167.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN1027-1-1.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN1034-1.jpg

studebaker of lompoc
02-08-2010, 10:39 PM
John and Tracy as you already know you have an awsome wagon. That said, I'll give you a little history on it!! It was bought in november of 1959 by Leo Allison at Pecks Buick in San Diego. They sold and serviced Buicks,Studebakers and some other makes and are still in the Buick business, I am told!!Somewhere along the line Leo burned a hole in a piston and Pecks Buick replaced the engine with a new one from Studebaker. Leo held on to the old 170 with hopes of rebuilding it.That never happened and the engine now resides in Santa Ynez Calif with Stude collector Tim Hunter!
On Labor Day 2000, Ron Rocha of Lompoc Calif bought the stude from Leo.He sold it eight years later to a gentleman in Bakersfield.Ron can fill you in on the rest of the story as he told me to give you his e-mail as he would be happy to tell you all he knows about the Lark. ronrocha@aol.com

Tom McCaffrey

Dick Steinkamp
02-08-2010, 10:41 PM
quote:Originally posted by studebaker of lompoc

John and Tracy as you already know you have an awsome wagon. That said, I'll give you a little history on it!! It was bought in november of 1959 by Leo Allison at Pecks Buick in San Diego. They sold and serviced Buicks,Studebakers and some other makes and are still in the Buick business, I am told!!Somewhere along the line Leo burned a hole in a piston and Pecks Buick replaced the engine with a new one from Studebaker. Leo held on to the old 170 with hopes of rebuilding it.That never happened and the engine now resides in Santa Ynez Calif with Stude collector Tim Hunter!
On Labor Day 2000, Ron Rocha of Lompoc Calif bought the stude from Leo.He sold it eight years later to a gentleman in Bakersfield.Ron can fill you in on the rest of the story as he told me to give you his e-mail as he would be happy to tell you all he knows about the Lark. ronrocha@aol.com

Tom McCaffrey


WOW! [:0]



Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/1963%20Avanti/pics005-1.jpg

barnlark
02-08-2010, 10:45 PM
Very few people have that kind of history of their car, or engine. What a nice bit of real evidence! [^]

John and Tracy Smith
02-08-2010, 11:33 PM
Tom, you have truly given us a gift and we appreciate you reaching out to help us find out more about this awesome wagon! We have a lot of old receipts and paperwork that came with the wagon, so we had the names and some of the dates and could roughly piece together somewhat of a time line of when the car changed ownership...but nothing like the information you just presented us with. THANK YOU!!! We look forward to communicating with Ron and letting him know how much we appreciate his excellent care of this vehicle! WOW!!!! :)

John and Tracy Smith
Queen Creek Arizona
http://1955studebaker.blogspot.com/

[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/IMG_3130.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/IMG_3159.jpg http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN5167.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN1027-1-1.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN1034-1.jpg

John and Tracy Smith
02-08-2010, 11:47 PM
As we sat here looking over this newest information, John remembered that he hadn't thought that the license plate holders on the car could be original after all this time. Here they are...definitely from two different time periods, but from the same dealer she was originally purchased from!

http://i683.photobucket.com/albums/vv199/johnandtracysmith/IMG_6125.jpg

John and Tracy Smith
Queen Creek Arizona
http://1955studebaker.blogspot.com/

[IMG]http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/IMG_3130.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/IMG_3159.jpg http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN5167.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN1027-1-1.jpghttp://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f352/studebakertruck/DSCN1034-1.jpg

fpstude
02-09-2010, 01:11 AM
It is really nice when you have the history of the vehicle. Having the license plate frames just adds to the history. You have a great car, we look forward to seeing it in May.

Perry
'23 Special Six,
'50 Business Champ,
'50 Starlight Champ,
'60 Lark droptop,
'63 GT R1

JRoberts
02-09-2010, 04:55 AM
To have that history is indeed fantastic. It is stuff like that that makes a great old car even greater to own.

I had a '55 Champion one time that had a replacement engine. I would never have known it but a couple of folks in our chapter noticed the blank pad on the block and filled me in on what I had.

Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

The Poopmaster
02-09-2010, 05:57 AM
You should try and get the original engine so your car would be as it left the factory. It would probably be a bonus if you were ever to sell it. Dan------ Purveyor of pooh.

studebaker of lompoc
02-09-2010, 10:52 AM
John and Tracy, I wish you guys could have met Leo as he was a great person.He loved that lark very much and actually resisted moving into a retirement home worrying about the demise or misuse of his beloved wagon. Ron Rocha was very good to him, taking him for drives in the car and listening to his many adventures.I believe that Leo took two trips west coast to east coast. While Leo was still alive, Ron would bring him to our two Lompoc cal car shows in which it was entered in the Studebaker class! I'm sure Tom"sb96" would have pictures of the wagon in some of these event as he had his Avanti there also.

Tom McCaffrey

JBOYLE
02-09-2010, 11:34 AM
Great history for a great car.

Let's all be thankful that Leo and Peck's put a proper Stude engine in it and not a SBC.:D

I'd like to think that somewhere Leo is happy his beloved car found a good home.
I hope my cars are as lucky when I'm gone.

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State