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Champion51
02-08-2007, 11:44 PM
When I bought my '51 Champion about 5 years ago, I changed the oil right away. I decided to look at it again a few days ago and was floored to see that it was black![:0] The thing is, the car has never been driven, always in the shop, and run on idle maybe a total of 50-60 mins. Yep, the carb throat was open, but the air in the shop was always clean. This is a new rebuilt 6cyl to boot. Why should the oil be black with such little use on a new motor? I've since changed the oil and found several ounces of gas in the oil from flooding on a couple of starts - but that shouldn't cause the oil to blacken.

Anyways, I've decided it is best to find an oil filter and riggings that I can mount on the engine. How is the oil filtered in these old filters? On the internet I see cannisters with holes in them, with what appears to be a lift-out handle on top. I suspect there is some form of paper filter on the inside? I see in my Chassis Parts book, two types of filters and pipes - an F3-P2 and a F4-P2. Also, a filcron type cartridge and a waste type cartridge? Is there anyone still making/selling these types of filters? I see that the F4-P2 cannister is wider and would probably take a thicker cartridge that would probably do a better job of filtering? I am also wondering if I am stuck to these particular models. Would the same style filter off an old chev or dodge not do the trick?

Any help you could provide is much appreciated.:)

Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

dictator27
02-09-2007, 12:21 PM
Dave
Those cartridges are still available. Luberfiner P4 is the larger one. About $12. Old Chev or Dodge ones most likely take the same cartridge.

Terry
BC Coastal Chapter

Roscomacaw
02-09-2007, 01:53 PM
Dave, I probably have a filter setup lying around here someplace. I fact, just yesterday I came across an old Frantz filter that uses a rool of toilet tissue for a filter element. (now, that's CHEAP!) These were an aftermarket thing but they DO work. The one I have doesn't have any hoses with it, but if you'll use it you can have it for shipping costs.

As to the oil being black..... Were you TOLD it was rebuilt or did you actually take part in/see it rebuilt??? And you said you changed the oil as soon as you bought the car 5 years ago. What did that first change oil look like?

The engine could well be "rebuilt", but without it ever being removed from the car. THAT would leave lots of old deposits in the oil passageways and inside of the block that could discolor new oil.[xx(] It's not really THAT much of a problem as the oil will still do what it has to - darkened or clear.[^]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

garyash
02-09-2007, 09:07 PM
Dave, you have to remember how much oils have changed over the last 60 years. Your Champ engine was put into production in 1939. There weren't high detergent, multi-viscosity oils available. The Champs - and other engines of the times - would have used non-detergent, single weight oils. The contaminants generated by running the engine made sludge that sank to the bottom of the crankcase. Owners had to change the oil frequently to get rid of the sludge. The modern detergent oils put all of the fine particles into suspension and that is why the oil looks black. There is an expectation today that the engine has a full-flow filter to keep the oil clean, but you don't. But don't worry too much because the oil is still lubricating.

The add-on filters divert part of the oil flow through the filter. Maybe a quart per minute goes through the filter while many quarts per minute flow through the bearings. While the partial flow filters can't catch all of the particles as they are generated, they will catch them all in a few minutes. It's much better than no filter. So, if you use modern multigrade detergent oils, adding a filter will make the oil be cleaner and look cleaner. An F4 filter is a good one with lots of filter area and cartridges are still available - they are just messy to change.

The standard dealer-accessory installation was to remove one of the oil gallery 1/8" pipe plugs just forward of the oil pump and run a flex line to the filter housing mounted on the left side of the block. The filter outlet flex line went to a fitting on the oil fill tube just above the point where it went into the block. Just be sure that there is a flow restrictor with an orifice of .045"-.060" at the block oil gallery or on the input side of the filter housing (some were built in) so that you don't by-pass too much oil to the filter and drop your oil pressure.

[img=left]http://www.studegarage.com/images/gary_ash_m5_sm.jpg[/img=left] Gary Ash
Dartmouth, Mass.
'48 M5
'65 Wagonaire Commander
'63 Wagonaire Standard
web site at http://www.studegarage.com

Champion51
02-10-2007, 12:30 AM
Thanks guys for your ideas and comments.

Terry, are the Luberfiner P4 cartridges available in Canada at flaps? There are a couple of filter setups on e-bay right now, just don't know if they'd work for me. I think Bob, I want to go with a cartridge-type filter, providing they are attainable at reasonable cost. Thanks for your generous offer.

Yep, the motor is almost certainly, a rebuild. The mechanic that replaced the cyl. head, said there was no scoring or wear at the top end of the cylinders. Also, the motor is extremely "tight" (hard to crank and immediate shut-down after running). I bought it from the widow of the previous owner, so have no idea what he had done and when he had last changed the oil. The first change I made when I got the car, I recall the oil being a little dark but not as bad as the oil I just removed.

Gary, I had noted two bolts, side-by-side at the base of the oil-fill tube and assumed they were for oil output and input, to and from, the filter housing. You've made it sound fairly simple, however I am a very amateur mechanic. My only other concern is the installation because of my limited knowledge. When the time comes, hopefully one of you great guys can walk me through it.

Thanks again for all of your imput. Any other comments? Throw 'em in there. They all help!

Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

hank63
02-10-2007, 07:54 AM
Dave, find an oil analysis place and give 'em a sample of your oil. They will list all the various things in the oil and give you a written report. If you don't know where to look, ask somebody in the trucking industry.
Sure, you have to pay for the report, but it will give you peace of mind or an early warning. I always do it when getting another old car. Some years ago, the analysis report showed bearing metal in the oil. When I pulled the engine apart, I found no 5 bigend on the way towards "catastrophic failure", but the engine only had a very slight knock - no more than a ticking valve.
Was I glad I had the report before the "big bang".
/H

chocolate turkey
02-10-2007, 09:45 AM
I had an engine fail once, it was using the toilet paper filter. They must have used cheap brands as the orifaces in the engine were plugged with TP.....:(
There's an oil analysis lab in Prince George, B.C. I think. That's close to home!

Brian K. Curtis

garyash
02-10-2007, 11:26 AM
Dave, here are the instructions and a drawing. This is from an old manual but applies to your '51 Champ, as well. You should be able to pick up one of the housings from anyone selling parts from an old Studebaker.
http://www.studegarage.com/images/other/oil_filter_instructions_vsm5.jpg

Gary Ash
Dartmouth, MA

avantilover
02-10-2007, 05:13 PM
I think even I could do that, just like using a Meccano set:D

John Clements
Avantilover, your South Australian Studebaker lover!!!
Lockleys South Australia

dictator27
02-10-2007, 06:23 PM
Dave
Lubefiner P4 filters should be available from industrial engine parts suppliers - lots of older forklifts use them. Auto parts stores that sell Fram filters should be able to supply their equivalent (C4P).

Terry

Champion51
02-10-2007, 06:48 PM
Hey, Gary thanks a lot for the diagram and intructions. Doesn't look so bad afterall - but I was never much good as Meccano! ha!
Thanks also to Terry for your additional info on the filters.
Now, I must get looking for the right filter.
What a swell bunch of people in this Club! Yeah!

Dave D.
'51 4-dr Champion
Smithers, B.C.
Canada

old cr8
02-11-2007, 10:32 AM
Dave
I have a complete filter set up for a Champion 6, Includes canister Studebaker mounting bracket, inlet line, with restricted fitting, outlet line and fittings. Drop me an email off forum if you are interested

http://images4.pictiger.com/thumbs/c7/20f4fcf17cafb0d0f2419312460998c7.th.jpg
Rodger Wilson AKA.old cr8
52 Starliner
Ontario Canada & Ocala FL
rwilson@eagle.ca

STEWDI
02-15-2007, 10:53 PM
Dave Yes, use a Luberfiner P4 , or a Kralinator K55A, or I believe a Wix 51010. The old Canadian Tire # was 1717-01.

STEWDI "153624" Hill

55 Champion
47 M-5
Izzer Buggy
Junior Wagon

Rosstude
02-16-2007, 10:38 AM
Wix 51050

[img=left]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g27/Rosstude/OldWorld2005002.jpg[/img=left]
Ross.
Riverside, Ca.
1957 Provincial X2
1958 Transtar

STEWDI
02-21-2007, 06:02 PM
Wix 51050 is a spin-on filter, not a cartridge. Wix 51010 isthe same as an old Fram C3 and Wix 51006 is the same as an old Fram C4. The 51006 has a height dimension of 5 inches - while the 51010 is 4 and 3/8ths inches high.

STEWDI "153624" Hill

55 Champion
47 M-5
Izzer Buggy
Junior Wagon