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View Full Version : I feel reeeeally stupid asking this buuuuut...



studeclunker
01-31-2007, 10:09 PM
I feel stupid asking this, but... The firing order is the same on my '56 259 as the '63, '64 etc... correct?[:o)]

I don't have the book, or the wherewithal to procure it, for the '56. So I've been using the Lark manual. It does indeed share some things in common with the Larks. Some parts have been interchangable. The Distributor is, oddly, identical to my '52. I haven't had the... um, guts to pull the Parkview's distributor to compare the components. Will the '56 have the same short shaft equipment as the '52 distributor? The caps and rotors interchange...

I'm having to do this because the Parkview has taken to popping and losing power under load. It won't climb even a small hill, and with the location of my place... well, it's a wee bit of a problem.

Let me explain:

I took the car down the hill to get the mail and go to the Hardware store. I wanted to see if he had some galvanized sheet that I could use as a temorary floor. Got the mail and no luck at the store. So I started home.
There's a short grade at the foot of Henrietta that climbs about fifteen vertical feet then drops about five. This is in a distance of about seven or eight hundred feet. So the grade isn't really all that steep at this point.
I turned onto Henrietta and started up this hill and the car bucked. It surprised me, as the car hadn't given me this kind of trouble. It continued another thirty feet without trouble accelerating smoothly. Then it bucked violently four times in rapid succession and died. I coasted it backwards down the hill and parked it.
Investigation of the problem revealed that the distributor cap had been broken, as well as the rotor and the straps that hold the cap in place. The straps were very rusty, and I thought that they had come apart and this had caused the problem. The cap, rotor, and straps from my '62 289 didn't fit. It was too small As this is the same distributor that is on the rest of my motors, I was stumped for a few minutes. Then I remembered that the '52's cap was larger. So, I went back up the hill and collected it. I pulled the whole distributor. Surprise! It had a very short shaft. Taking these parts back down the hill, revealed that the cap and rotor would indeed fit. So, I put them on. To install the straps necessitated turning the distributor about a quarter turn counter clockwise. It wouldn't move. I jiggled it and gently tapped it with my hand, and with some patience, it finally made a little 'click' and moved freely. everything fit on and buckled right up.

I climbed in and the car fired right up and ran smoothly. When I put it in gear, however, and attempted to move it, the engine started to pop and buck again.

So, here I am with a car that starts after turning twice. Runs smoothly while it warms. Then won't go. I have the plugs in the following order (counter-clockwise) 1,8,4,3,6,5,7,2.

Any ideas? I'm completely flummoxed. Not to mention majorly... how did my sister used to put it? Oh yes. Like, totally bummed out maaaan![V][B)][8]

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

55s
01-31-2007, 10:33 PM
Firing order is the same. I believe counterclockwise is correct. (Just watch the rotor with the cap off.) In TW Cooperator, a person had misnumbered the cylinders. One bank, when you're looking from the side, is ahead of the other. (Left or drivers side) These are from front 1357. Passenger bank from front is 2 4 6 8.

I think you have a fuel problem. Try hooking up a clean gas tank on the hood, and bypassing the tank.

Paul R

dictator27
01-31-2007, 10:45 PM
I'm with 55s. If it will run fine under light load, but bog down under load it is starving for fuel. Is there a fuel filter in the line from the pump to the carb? Change it and try again. Start with the cheap stuff first.:)

Dwain G.
01-31-2007, 11:15 PM
You almost certainly have bad motor mounts that allow the engine to shift under load causing the distributor to slap the firewall. Left front is prime suspect.


Dwain G.
(We're not called 'hillbillies' any more....we're now Ozark Americans)!

studeclunker
01-31-2007, 11:30 PM
Yeah, I suspected the mounts are bad. I have one. Actually, I thought there were more around here... can't find em.
I'll try the fuel filter. Clever idea on the vac advance. I'll try it. All I have to do is find a long enough hose... I don't sing for KISS.:D(LOL)

The gas tank is fine. I switched out the original with one that I knew was good. The plan is to clean and seal the original then re-install it.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

dictator27
02-01-2007, 12:01 AM
Another thought clunk. I think it is fair to assume that the carb probably has some crud in it which means there wiill be junk in the carb jets. Take the air filter off. Inside the carb air intake there is a tube which goes on an angle down into the float bowl. This is the float bowl vent. Stick a straw over that and blow in it. This will dislodge any crud that might be in the jets and cure the pop back.:)

Terry G.

studeclunker
02-01-2007, 12:47 AM
Terry, you do know this is a side draft? Here's a rather poor pic:

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/technical/carbuerator.jpg

This was taken by the previous owner. I'm a little fuzzy as to which diagonal tube you're talking about. Is it the one connected to the tube on the left of the picture?

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

dictator27
02-01-2007, 01:57 AM
Sorry.[:o)] I was thinking downdraft.[:I]I thought I was having a momentary flash of brilliance but it was more like brain freeze.

Terry

studeclunker
02-01-2007, 02:21 AM
The function of this carb is very similar to a downdraft. In fact, below the top-plate it's identical. I wasn't criticizing you or your suggestion. All I have to do is figure where the vent is on this carb.

I'm open to any and all suggestions. It's my fevernt prayer that nothing has been damaged and the valves aren't the problem here (as my mechanic friend has suggested).

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

Mike Van Veghten
02-01-2007, 03:30 PM
I believe those are not side draft carburetors.
All the "stuff" inside are the same as a down draft. It's just the air horn that's side draft.
Fer under hood verses air cleaner clearance.

Mike

dictator27
02-01-2007, 03:50 PM
Hey Ron, let's try this again. This time the light (all 3 watts of it :D) stayed on when I had my flash of brilliance :). Take the air cleaner off, and since the air intake faces the rear take a mirror and a light and look in the intake. On the passengers side above the choke plate you should see the end of a tube sticking down on an angle. That is the float bowl vent tube. The raised section on the side of the air horn that runs along it starting just above where the rubber hose from the intake manifold connects to the carb is the connection to the float bowl. Instead of a straw, you'll have to get a piece of rubber hose with an inside diameter of about 1/4 inch, shove it over the end of that tube and blow in it. With the engine shut off, of course. This should create enough disturbance in the gas in the float bowl to clean out any crud that might be in the main jets and cure the pop back and lack of power. Years ago, I had an automotive instructor who said that 90% of ignition problems originated with the fuel system. I'm quite sure that is the case here. ;)


Terry
BC Coastal Chapter
27 Dictator sedan
54 Commander Starliner (I knew I had one of those carbs around somewhere [B)])

studeclunker
02-01-2007, 05:52 PM
Thanks Terry! I'll try that. In the meantime I've been doing some investigation. The diaphragm in the vaccum advance, is shot. It won't hold vaccum. I took it off. It will move the lever, but it won't hold.

Another thing I found is that the distributor is different than in my other 259/289s. The shaft is much shorter. Actually it has a key like end to it that fits into a reciever in the top of the block. My other distributors have a foot long shaft that inserts into the same kind of key at the bottom. The cap is larger and the parts are different. Everything however (in this distributor), is identical to my '52's motor. Very odd. Yet the block number does identify it as a 259. Go figure. So, does anyone know if the vaccum advance Studebaker International offers (6484249, V.A. for '56 Gol. Hk. - Autolite) will work? It is listed for the Hawk, however, nothing else listed meets my year.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

dictator27
02-01-2007, 06:25 PM
Ron
Something isn't making sense here. All V8 distributors should have a long shaft on them. Is there a hole through the shaft under the drive gear on yours? If there is there should be a pin going through the part of the shaft that is still in the engine and throught the tongue on the dist. shaft.

Terry

Transtar60
02-01-2007, 08:07 PM
Maybe some previous owner installed a 51-54 distributor.

3E38
4E2
4E28
5E13
7E7
8E7
8E12
8E28
4E2
59 Lark
etc

studeclunker
02-01-2007, 10:37 PM
I must admit to a bit of cowardice here.[:I][:o)][8)] I didn't pull out the distributor in the wagon. I'm going on the visible parts (which are identical above the block). I assumed that they're the same. We all know what that word stands for, hmmm?;) Another detail that added to this foolery of mine, is that the V8 distributor caps are the same part number at S.I. from '50 to '59. So I just assumed (that word just does keep coming up) the distributors were the same. The vaccum advance device was the same too (just as non-functional[8]). So here I am, ol' Bess not cooperating, and I'm stuck. All I have to do is get her home. I had hoped to license her this month and drive her, but that doesn't look likely.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

skyway
02-02-2007, 02:27 PM
To my knowledge the factory used three distributors on V-8's.

The first, beginning in 1951 was a traditional(remove the cap to adjust the points)Delco. The ID plate on the early ones even say "Delco-Remy".

The second one, (early 60's?) was also Delco, but had a slid up plate, or "window" thru which you could use an allen wrench to adjust the points without removing the cap. Awfully handy!

The third (until the end of US production)was by Prestolite. It is not a "window" type, and in addition to its Prestolite name plate, the diameter of the distributor housing is smaller than on the Delco's. This one is not nearly so durable as either of the Delcos.

The diffrence in cap size between your 1962, and your 1952, could be the difference between a Delco in the '52, and a Prestolite in he '62.

All 3 are interchangable into any Studebaker (NOT GM) engine. As a result, they all have the same sized base which fits into the hole on
top of the engine block, and inside the engine, all have the same gear driven by the cam shaft, and "knee jointed" shaft with a "screw driver (not phillips) slot on the end to drive the oil pump.

Other automakers also used distributors by Delco and Prestolite, so you may see similiar housings on other makes, often mounted in other places on the engines (ie. Chrysler big blocks, with Prestolites mounted on an angle at the front of the engine). These may look the same up top, but the shaft portions hidden inside the engine will differ from Studebaker.

When pulling any Studebaker engined distributor, note the position of the rotor and the orientation of the housing BEFORE removal. For removal pull straight up, and note that as the housing comes out, the rotor will rotate about 10 or 15 degrees. Note as well the position in which the rotor ends up.

When reinstalling, begin with the housing oriented as it was before removal, and the rotor in the position where it ended up upon removal. Although you have to jiggle and cuss to get the knee jointed shaft down thru the engine block to the oil pump, and cam gear to engage, once you do, and as the distributor housing meets the block, mating with the cam gear will cause the rotor to move BACK into its original, pre-removal, position. At this point the engine should start and run. If not you may have to have someone else crank the engine while you gently rotate the dist. housing until it starts.

Lastly, when you reinstall the distributor hold down and bolt, make sure the distributor is full seated. If not the car can run, but without the oil pump being driven. A bad situation.

Good luck.