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Laemmle
12-30-2009, 11:06 PM
I happened to be trolling Craigs list and came across this nice looking Avanti..........not terribly expensive considering the condition and recent work.

Anyone forum members know this car?

okc63avanti
12-30-2009, 11:39 PM
No link to the Craigs list Avanti listing is in your forum post ???

<div align="left">John</div id="left">

<div align="left">'63 Avanti, R1, Auto, AC, PW (under restoration)</div id="left">
http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq16/okc63avanti/63StudebakerAvanti-1.jpg

rickburgen
12-30-2009, 11:55 PM
I believe this is the one he is refering to.
http://longisland.craigslist.org/cto/1531030379.html


http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu191/rickburgen/P6100004.jpg
John
63 R2 Avanti
Northport, NY

Gunslinger
12-31-2009, 09:00 AM
I wonder what the explanation is for photos of an R2 (check what appears to be '63 style Supercharged emblems) described as an R1 with factory a/c? I'm not saying this isn't a real car for sale, but there are questions the seller would have to address for a serious and knowledgeable buyer.



Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

candbstudebakers
12-31-2009, 10:05 AM
If that is a good price then the one we have for sale is a steal, ours is R-2 auto super nice interior and really good runner, it was at ceder rapids this year, white exterior , car is still for sale even if it has not been seen as of late...Bob

Bob Peterson / C & B Studebakers

Castro Valley, CA
canbstudebakers-
http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv271/canbstudebakers/CedarRapids210.jpg

Laemmle
12-31-2009, 10:13 AM
Heard from the owner.........the first owner put those on himself and he (the second owner) did not want to remove them and have to deal with paint/blend issues.

Sorta like 'full race hub caps' :-)



quote:Originally posted by Gunslinger

I wonder what the explanation is for photos of an R2 (check what appears to be '63 style Supercharged emblems) described as an R1 with factory a/c? I'm not saying this isn't a real car for sale, but there are questions the seller would have to address for a serious and knowledgeable buyer.



Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

Laemmle
12-31-2009, 10:15 AM
What are you asking?



quote:Originally posted by candbstudebakers

If that is a good price then the one we have for sale is a steal, ours is R-2 auto super nice interior and really good runner, it was at ceder rapids this year, white exterior , car is still for sale even if it has not been seen as of late...Bob

Bob Peterson / C & B Studebakers

Castro Valley, CA
canbstudebakers-
http://i691.photobucket.com/albums/vv271/canbstudebakers/CedarRapids210.jpg

satdoc2
12-31-2009, 10:38 AM
The selling price for Avantis is too low for some reason. The price for the disassembled Avanti parts that JDP sold proves it. Can we be contributing to the low price if we sell too cheap? We have talk on this forum about "Saving" and not parting out Studebakers, but as low as the price is for an Avanti, if I decide to sell my R2 I will be better off parting it out. And JDP, in all humbleness, if you buy Studebakers cheap and sell cheap, some might like to see you switch over to Ford, Chev., or other makes. Of course this applies to others that find a real low price for a Studebaker and flip it for a small profit. I hope this does not make any enemies.
Allen

sals54
12-31-2009, 11:02 AM
Allen, I did the parting out on JDPs Avanti. The only reason he parted out this car was due to the fact that so many parts were missing. The car was stripped down to the very last nut, bolt and clip. It would have been a monumental task for anyone to put this car back together. Also, it would have cost double the cars worth just to put it back together. JDP buying cars cheap and reselling them cheap does not keep Avanti prices down. The total number of Avantis he has sold over the last several years is minimal compared to the total number of sales across the country. I don't believe it has had any impact on the NADA values. Avanti values have been creeping up through the years. The primary reason for the low Avanti prices is the fact the cars are connected to the Studebaker name. Studebakers in general are now beginning to gain respect in the collector car circles. As they are more desired, their value will grow. By the way, you have not made an enemy here. Its good to hear others opinions.

sals54
http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm197/sals54/NewSignature.jpg

studegary
12-31-2009, 01:06 PM
That reminds me of an Avanti in the CT & NY area that the owner kept switching back and forth between supercharger and A/C. The last owner that I know of retired to TN. I don't know what happened to the car.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

63r2
12-31-2009, 05:43 PM
quote:Originally posted by satdoc2

The selling price for Avantis is too low for some reason. The price for the disassembled Avanti parts that JDP sold proves it. Can we be contributing to the low price if we sell too cheap? We have talk on this forum about "Saving" and not parting out Studebakers, but as low as the price is for an Avanti, if I decide to sell my R2 I will be better off parting it out. And JDP, in all humbleness, if you buy Studebakers cheap and sell cheap, some might like to see you switch over to Ford, Chev., or other makes. Of course this applies to others that find a real low price for a Studebaker and flip it for a small profit. I hope this does not make any enemies.
Allen


I think elements of what you say are true, but it's a problem everywhere.
Everytime there's a low priced Avanti for sale we get the "nothing more expensive than a cheap Avanti " quoted by someone(sorry JDP I think it will be on your tombstone:D). No wonder people are a little wary of them and don't want to pay a fair price or any price. I would have thought that quote would have applied to almost every vehicle made especially my Gt Hawk.
I think we all know that car restoration is an expensive business, but we are into it for different reasons so I believe the Avanti gets harshly treated in that regard.
Personally I think the prices of Avanti's are low (not because of the Studebaker name as the Avanti 2's is cheaper ) but because hardly anyone knows they exist. How may times do we read on this forum about people being stopped and asked about their cars or people all around their cars at a show(this also applies to Studes in general).
It's hard to build a market when know one knows the product exists.
The other reason is Stude people themselves. We don't have the confidence to ask a high price for our cars.

Sometimes I think we are our own worsed enemies.
pb
My opinion, no malice intended or directed at anyone.

bams50
12-31-2009, 05:57 PM
quote:Originally posted by Laemmle

What are you asking?



I believe Ian MacKellar owns the car and wanted 'eyedean' ($18K;))

I saw it in person and heard it run, Very nice example!

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.patrioticon.org/images/flag1-1.gif
GOD BLESS AMERICA

billmdonn
12-31-2009, 09:34 PM
This Avanti doesn't look bad.

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/1506207586.html

Laemmle
12-31-2009, 11:55 PM
Those seats...........oh boy:-(



quote:Originally posted by billmdonn

This Avanti doesn't look bad.

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/cto/1506207586.html

JDP
01-01-2010, 01:18 AM
quote:Originally posted by satdoc2

The selling price for Avantis is too low for some reason. The price for the disassembled Avanti parts that JDP sold proves it. Can we be contributing to the low price if we sell too cheap? We have talk on this forum about "Saving" and not parting out Studebakers, but as low as the price is for an Avanti, if I decide to sell my R2 I will be better off parting it out. And JDP, in all humbleness, if you buy Studebakers cheap and sell cheap, some might like to see you switch over to Ford, Chev., or other makes. Of course this applies to others that find a real low price for a Studebaker and flip it for a small profit. I hope this does not make any enemies.
Allen



It's a dilemma, you say we sell too cheap and when I offered the project Avanti for 5-6K under what we'll get in parts, others said I was asking too much. I don't set the market value for Avanti's, but I think the main factor in low resale is that they don't look like "old cars" and were in production in one form or another up until a few years ago.
I don't have any control over what the ebay bidders pay, the market does that. BTW, I'm usually blamed for pushing values up not down, that's a new twist.:) Your not making enemies by just sharing a opinion, BTW, but I can't switch hobby car brands after 50 years, even if I thought I effected values.

JDP/Maryland

edpjr
01-01-2010, 03:33 PM
Parting out that Avanti was a stroke of brilliance. You guys must've made a war pension off the deal.[8D] I bid on some parts, but didn't win any yet.:( The reason the Avanti and Studebaker market is down is the recession. Which we're not coming out of anytime soon since there's no mfg jobs left in the USA. Everything's made in China, Mexico or Honduras these days.[xx(]


quote:Originally posted by JDP


quote:Originally posted by satdoc2

The selling price for Avantis is too low for some reason. The price for the disassembled Avanti parts that JDP sold proves it. Can we be contributing to the low price if we sell too cheap? We have talk on this forum about "Saving" and not parting out Studebakers, but as low as the price is for an Avanti, if I decide to sell my R2 I will be better off parting it out. And JDP, in all humbleness, if you buy Studebakers cheap and sell cheap, some might like to see you switch over to Ford, Chev., or other makes. Of course this applies to others that find a real low price for a Studebaker and flip it for a small profit. I hope this does not make any enemies.
Allen



It's a dilemma, you say we sell too cheap and when I offered the project Avanti for 5-6K under what we'll get in parts, others said I was asking too much. I don't set the market value for Avanti's, but I think the main factor in low resale is that they don't look like "old cars" and were in production in one form or another up until a few years ago.
I don't have any control over what the ebay bidders pay, the market does that. BTW, I'm usually blamed for pushing values up not down, that's a new twist.:) Your not making enemies by just sharing a opinion, BTW, but I can't switch hobby car brands after 50 years, even if I thought I effected values.

JDP/Maryland



edp/NC
'63 Avanti
'66 Commander

pdmiller
01-01-2010, 04:55 PM
In response to the discussion about Avanti prices:

When I purchased my Avanti three weeka ago it came with a box of Avanti magazines dating back to the late '70s. I was curious and flipped through classifieds from the Summer '89 issue. I was surprised to find that prices for a well-maintained original Avanti were in the mid-teens and well-restored examples were in the mid- to high-twenties. Save for the past few months, I would say prices haven't changed much in 20 years.

Granted, I haven't been in the hobby all that long, but does this agree with what others are seeing?

Peter Miller

pdmiller@stanford.edu

1963 Avanti R1 4-speed, 63R4810

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2528/4206258065_9620cb3021_m.jpg

Thomas63R2
01-01-2010, 05:21 PM
Ed, I agree with you about mfg. jobs - for too long now Americans have placed little to no value on the manufacturing sector of the economy. What was left of our manufacturing base will now soon be leaving due to the new and upcoming Gore-wellian restrictions. Let's see: our "consumption" based economy is limping, we sent a lot of our manufacturing away - what's left that is sustainable?

Interest in Avantis peaked around 1962-1963, there is not much chance of a revival of popular conciousness about the Avanti - unless someone wants to launch a national advertising campaign.

My thoughts on why the Avanti doesn't get more respect:
1) Its an American car that looks European - and the old car hobby is far more interested in American style than European style.
2) Bonneville records and the efforts of a small handful of racers aside - most Avantis are not all that muscular, so it never gained a following from musclecar enthusiasts. Spare me the details about the 9 second 130 mph Avantis - the overwhelming majority of Avanti R1/R2 are unremarkable performers.

I love my Avanti and I have no plans of selling, so I really don't care that it is more of a curiosity than it is desireable to most people. Perhaps that is the best way: you like what you like, popularity be darned.

Thomas

Laemmle
01-02-2010, 08:33 AM
Tom,

I take exception to your use of 'broad brush' painting of statements.

Given the context of the era........an R-1 with either a 331 or 307 final drive was good for over 125 mph. An R-2 about 140 mph. If you consider this nothing to sneeze about then I guess I will keep my case of Kleenex:-)

Avanti's were never street racers like GTX, 'Vette, Judge/GTO's, etc.

Indeed they were magnificent turnpike cruisers.......especially with the very tall gear ratios.

lschuc
01-02-2010, 11:05 AM
Yes, you are pretty much right, Peter. Avanti prices seem about the same as they were 20 years ago. When I took over as editor of Avanti magazine about 2001, prices advertised then are still about the same now. Most nice R1 or R2 cars are still pretty much in the teens, with an occasional Avanti in the low to mid-20s. And those higher prices ones take awhile to sell.
In fact, you can still find good running, but need restored Avantis for under $5,000-$10,000.

Those from the 2000s take even longer to sell. Their prices are in the $30-$40,000 range, but those are practically new cars. They are selling like most newer Mustangs and Camaros, but they see a very small market.

Yes, Avanti prices are very low, compared to other collector cars from the 1960s or even 1970s. Avantis are more rare than Shelby Mustangs or even Yenko Camaros, yet sell for just a fraction of what a Yenko or Shelby body shell sells for.

Lew




quote:Originally posted by pdmiller

In response to the discussion about Avanti prices:

When I purchased my Avanti three weeka ago it came with a box of Avanti magazines dating back to the late '70s. I was curious and flipped through classifieds from the Summer '89 issue. I was surprised to find that prices for a well-maintained original Avanti were in the mid-teens and well-restored examples were in the mid- to high-twenties. Save for the past few months, I would say prices haven't changed much in 20 years.

Granted, I haven't been in the hobby all that long, but does this agree with what others are seeing?

Peter Miller

pdmiller@stanford.edu

1963 Avanti R1 4-speed, 63R4810




Lew Schucart
Editor, Avanti Magazine

Thomas63R2
01-05-2010, 09:43 PM
Laemmie, I'm glad that you agree that Avantis were not street racers - which is what muscle cars (called "supercars" in the era) were all about. Put a 3.00:1 rear gear in any of the non-Avanti cars you named and you would be north of 140 mph - so what? Keep your Kleenix - Avantis were performance cars in their own right, just in a different way than other American performance cars of the era.

I salute the achievements of Ted Harbit, Tom Covington, and the other dedicated Studebaker racers (I'm including the well prepped factory "stock" and F.A.S.T. racers). Otherwise, Avantis have rarely been a threat on the street. Set aside the hard core street hustlers, the Lambo/Ferrari types, and the modern day import tuner freeway racers, I've never seen a stoplight grand prix that went much beyond ~ 80 mph before it was all over.

Related question: have any R1/R2 Avanti or other R1/R2 Studebakers ever run in events like the Maxton Mile? If it hasn't been done, that would be interesting.

Thomas