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showbizkid
01-28-2007, 07:56 PM
OK, I was trying to pull the studs out of my driver's side manifold (they were pitted and pointing opposite directions), and I busted 'em right off. No sweat, I get out the extractor and start drilling.

An hour later, there is NO WAY those things are rotating out of their holes. So do I just keep drilling and hope I can get out the shell and re-tap the holes, or just say "screw it" and buy a new one?

Sigh... [V]


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Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

studeclunker
01-28-2007, 08:08 PM
BEEN THERE DONE THAT (LOL)! At least you have the extractor.:) I must have three sets of useless manifolds here that have exactly the same problem.[8]:(

My heart goes out to you for your frustration, brother!
Other than that, how's the new toy coming along?

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Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

showbizkid
01-28-2007, 08:13 PM
;)

A little frustration I can handle! Things are coming along. I'm doing little stuff - painting manifolds, rebuilding carbs while waiting for the transmission to get finished. My NOS torque converter and rear pump arrived Friday and go to the shop tomorrow. Lots of parts arriving - even my wife is excited! [:0]

So Clunk, it sounds like you're saying just bite the bullet and get a new one?


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Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

Blue 15G
01-28-2007, 08:27 PM
Been there, done that also! I suggest pulling the manifolds and take them to your local automotive machine shop and let them handle the drilling and replacement. This is one case where the cost is minimal considering the grief you go through doing it yourself.

JDP
01-28-2007, 08:29 PM
Cheaper to buy NOS ones then pay a machine shop. Just save the old ones for the day we've used them all up.


64 Commander 2 dr.
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Roscomacaw
01-28-2007, 09:40 PM
I fix my own all the time. Some times I provide better ones to the likes of StudeClunker too.

If you can't hack it, buy the new ones. But SAVE the old ones so the likes of Matthew and Graeme will have something to work with someday.;) And USE anti-sieze and brass nuts so it'll come apart with ease next time!:(

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

showbizkid
01-28-2007, 11:18 PM
Alright, I'll keep at it and see if I can make it work. Stand by...


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

John Kirchhoff
01-29-2007, 12:20 AM
I have a bunch of screw extractors, have no idea why they call them that because they seldom work and I have no idea as to why I keep them around considering they usually don't work. First of all, someone good with a torch can blow the stud out of cast iron because the latter is next to impossible to cut with a torch. Tried that before. So is it the remainder of the studs that are in the head that you're trying to drill out? If so, I've found that to be lots of fun, did that on a Dodge last winter and not nearly enough too to work. I really needed an old time offset head drill. I eventually got it and got the hole tapped, but be very careful because you don't want to break the tap (or the screw extractor) off in the hole. I did both only in opposite order this spring trying to drill a steel stud out of an aluminum motorcycle engine case. Believe me, I said a few colorful words. If you do, about the only thing you can do is get a Dremel tool (also sometimes called a rotary burr grinder) and either diamond or a handful of good grade carbide bits. And lots of patience also. When you tap the hole, do yourself a favor and buy a good American made tap like Hanson and do plenty of backing up with lots of oil. If you're drilling them out of the exhaust manifold, it isn't going to make much difference if you end up boring the hole oversize but if in something like the head, being able to get the piece on a drill press sure makes things more accurate. More than once the tap ended up backing the remains of the old bolt or stud out.

If the studs already have steel nuts froze on and you want to save the stud, you can heat the nut up red hot with a torch and quench it with water and you can often back them off with your fingers. If accessable, one of those nut busters will spread the nut and if that fails and you don't have a torch, you can use an offset head grinder and make a cut in the nut almost to the threads and usually it'll loosen things up. Good luck and if you need any new four letter words, let me know because I believe I've used them all doing what you're doing.

studeclunker
01-29-2007, 01:43 AM
Yeah, what they said (LOL)!:D Yeah, Biggs, you saved my life on that one. I didn't have the money to buy new ones. I'll be forever grateful to have been able to get the Champ going. I'd be walking otherwise.

Clark, if you have the bullet to bite, do it. Why go through all the anguish otherwise? Both SI and SASCO have the manifolds you need. Just make sure that, if you don't want to store them, they go to somewhere like the BerStuda Triangle or the Island of Misfit Toys (LOL)!:D

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Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

John Kirchhoff
01-29-2007, 01:03 PM
I must be exceptionally dense, but I finally realized Clark was talking about the studs that hold the exhaust pipe to the manifold, not the manifold to the head. I have one that's probably going to need replacing some time and it's the front one I think. At least it's the one that could probably be bored clear through and a bolt installed while the other one has a blind hole. I figured I'd try to bore it clear through, insert the bolt from the bottom and put the nut on top. If this isn't possible to do so, I'd appreciate hearing about it. After beaking off the screw extractor AND tap in the bike case, I'm really wary of those two headache makers.

showbizkid
01-29-2007, 09:43 PM
Alright, I've managed to drill completely through one stud. I hadn't thought about the Dremel, but that's a good idea... a rough burr should allow me to carve off a line down one side and maybe dislodge the tube that's left? More news as it comes...


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Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

KGlowacky
01-29-2007, 10:01 PM
I have had great luck by first cutting the nuts off the studs with a cutting wheel. Then I remove the exhust pipes and then the manifold from the block. Once on the bench I get my torch and apply heat to the stud (red hot) and then some to the manifold ear and they screw right out. Once you break them off and have nothing to grab on to then the fun really begins. A drill and alot of bits is the only way I know of.:D

rockne10
02-01-2007, 09:24 PM
http://img.nextag.com/image/SK_Facom_10mm_Stud/0/000/005/251/151/525115191.jpg

An extractor like this works! The more you turn, the tighter it grips.

You want to heat the manifold so it expands, not the stud. Red hot or even white hot won't harm the cast and a heated stud will be softened and easier to shear off. If you heat them both, they both expand and you're less likely to break the bond. I heat the manifold red hot, slap on this extractor and spin it right out. But you do need at least a half inch of stud for the extractor to get a grip.

showbizkid
02-01-2007, 10:10 PM
That's the kind I used to twist off the studs [:I] Guess I should have thought about heating the manifold. I'll know better next time.

I got the first one drilled out and re-tapped; working on the 2nd one now [B)]


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Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

gordr
02-01-2007, 10:49 PM
Stop for a minute and think about what process is at work here. Know your enemy, and the enemy is RUST!

In this case the rust is a crystalline mixture of hydrated iron oxides and hydroxides that forms in the minute space between the threads of the stud and the parent metal of the manifold. The surface of the metal is partially dissolved, and replaced by a much larger volume of crystalline rust minerals, effectively cementing the stud into the the threaded hole.

Heat is your friend. In such a case, I like to apply heat to the stud, and get it red hot, and keep it that way for a minute or so, allowing the heat to soak along the stud into the part that is within the threaded hole. Heat has two beneficial actions here: first, it acts to dehydrate the hydrated iron oxides and hydoxides. This breaks down their crystal structure, and causes a volume loss, which helps break down the cement bond between the parts. Secondly, because the heated steel stud expands more than the manifold, which is heated only by conduction from the steel, it's expansion exerts a powerful crushing force on the rust crystals between it and the manifold. Now if you could heat the manifold alone, while keeping the stud cool, it would expand away from the stud, and free it up as well. As a practical matter, though, it's usually tough to get a large part like a manifold really hot without the stud getting well-heated too. It's the DIFFERENTIAL heating that gets it done. On the other hand, if it's a rusted manifold NUT being removed, by all means heat that nut red hot and remove while hot. In the case of the stud, heat it red hot, and then let it all cool. (you need a cool beer after all that hot work anyhow) Once it's cooled off, give it a couple of raps with a hammer, and try removing it. It may take several heating-cooling cycles to do it; never assume that you'll get it first try.

If the stud has broken off flush with or below the surface of the cast part, you can use a MIG welder to heat the stud AND to build an extension on it so it can be gripped for removal. This has saved my bacon several times. But sometimes you will have to resort to drilling, there's no avoiding that.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

N8N
02-04-2007, 08:11 AM
Gord is right, but I've found that I've had better luck with just grinding the ends of the studs perfectly flat, center punching, and drilling away. I'm actually getting pretty good at drilling out busted fasteners; I managed to drill three or four water manifold bolts out of my '55 without using a single heli-coil!

The one thing that I can't seem to do, however, is blow the stud out of the manifold with a cutting torch. I've seen it done, but the one time I tried it, I just ended up with a melted manifold.

nate

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