Modified Valve Bodies

[buddymander]

I'm interested in collaborating with other individuals to come up with a simple valve body modification that can be performed on second gear start valve bodies to accomplish an acceptable first gear start operation. I've always been interested in automatics and have rebuilt several thousand, I've modified many with hp parts, shift kits, reprogramming kits and some of my own home brewed modifications. I'm confident that this can be done and would like to hear from other folks who would like to have this as a goal. I'm collecting pictures of valve body differences and would appreciate any that could be added. We could get the first gear start part pretty easily, I believe, but the harsh 2-1 shift might take some careful mods to reroute the fluid when the trans is in drive to eliminate the possibility of a low/reverse band apply. I've been interested in this mod for several years and I'd like to be able to get on with it.

[Mike Van Veghten]

One guy that might be able to help is John Metzger. He's also been working on Stude tran's. for a long time.
His E-mail address is in the "question-answer" section of turning wheels, top of the page.

He's a hot rodder at heart, he might be able to shed some light and or pictures.

Mike

[buddymander]

The first thing I'd like to find out is whether or not the first gear start valve bodies presently for sale eliminate the rough 2-1 downshift, or if they still apply the low/reverse band. If they still apply the band, then trottle valve adjustments are probably limited to softening that downshift.

[StudeRich]

A couple of things that may help you:

1. The 1956 and Early 1957 V-8 Valve Bodies are the ONLY ones that can (easily) be converted from 2nd. gear to 1st. gear start.

2. I do not think there has ever been a problem with the V-8 Truck low gear start Transmission having too harsh up or down shifts. But since you understand Automatics fully, maybe you understand why it is that the Ford (Ford-O-Matic) type vacuum modulator used on those Tranny's maybe helped that situation. [:0]

If you were to get the Studebaker Parts Catalog CD for Truck & Car and compare parts, it would be very clear to you how one works well and the other does not.

I remember driving those 6 Cyl. cars and noted like others that the method used in those resulted in the same conditions Ross noted in his modified '57 Tranny. Clunky slow downshifts after stopping to Low and harsh shifts, sometimes even upshifts.

I think you do understand that we are not talking about [u]Automatic</u> Low gear downshifts in DRIVE here, because there are NONE until about 2 MPH or after a slight delay AFTER fully stopping, right?
[u]In "LOW" </u>the governor will allow low gear downshifts at about 28-32 MPH with the usual engine roar and tire squeal.

And really, I see NO reason to EVER do a actual LOW GEAR downshift manually anyway, all you really need is to be able to hold Second all the way down to 0, and that takes a Power Shift with a sprag unit to accomplish.

My friend John Metzker told me and anyone who would listen, how to create the ultimate controllable 1,2,3 Automatic or manual up or down Tranny. but it's been a long time ago and I actually bought a Shift Command AMC Borg Warner Trans. to do it, but still have not completed.
The problem is the complete tail housing is not compatible with the Studebaker speedometer gear, governor ect. and needs some simple mods. same with the Borg Warner used in 70's or '80's Thunderbird.
FMX? Tranny.

I really hope this can help without any personal attacks on ANY Forum members, you me or anyone!

StudeRich

[buddymander]

But I think the problem in the converted ones is there when the trans shifts AUTOMATICALLY. It downshifts when speed drops to between 10-15, I guess. Ford went to the FMX in 67. Before that they had three different size Borg Warners. They all looked the same but parts wouldn't interchange. I found out the hard way trying to beef one up. Doing fine until I tried to put the governor suport back on. I'm thinking the FGSVB's were intended for cases with a different port arrangement than the SGSVB's. So maybe when the FGSVB is installed on the SGS trans, the fluid pressure isn't isolated the same way, causing the l/r band to be applied any time the trans goes to L, causing not only L but L engine braking too. when the trans takes off in L, the only thing needed to be applied is the forward clutch. Application of the reverse band gives you the engine braking. I don't even have a car with an FOM anymore, but I'm sure I will in the future, plus I've just always been interested in automatics and what can be done with them. I'm trying to figure out how to reroute the fluid in a way that the trans doesn't have to come out or apart any further than the valve body. I'm already aware that the best trans for Studebakers is the 2004R, and that's what I would switch to if I wanted to get into a lot of work. There's gotta be a way to reroute the fluid even if it involves drilling holes and attaching tubing to the outside of the valve body.

[buddymander]

Since the trans downshifts from second to first by simply releasing the second gear band, the clunk isn't felt by an actual downshift, but rather by the application of the low/reverse band alone. Without the band applied, there is no engine braking, thus no harshness or clunking. If you drive a newer automatic in manual low, it will cause engine braking when you decellerate, but in drive, the trans won't engine brake when it downshifts to low because the low/reverse band isn't applied. Also, if the l/r band is applied during initial takeoff, the shift to second will take longer because the l/r band has to release at the same time the second gear band is applied. So, there's some power being lost since first gear can be accomplished by the forward clutch alone. Has anybody installed the first gear start valve body in their second gear start trans and been satisfied with the results?

[Mike Van Veghten]

buddy -

Did you get in contect with John..?

Mike

[buddymander]

I don't have any TW's. I did a search on Sonny's site and it also said to look in TW. Although I think he's probably going to also say that it can't be done, I'm still willing to ask. I've had so many people tell me so many things can't be done, I'm really starting to get sick of hearing it. (after sixty years) Once in a while they're right, but I'm so used to hearing it that I never let it stop me. The reason I'm convinced that it can be accomplished within the confines of the valve body is because first gear downshift is actually accomplished by simply releasing the second gear band. It should be a simple matter to eliminate the possibility of the application of the low/reverse band while the manual valve is in 2 or D. Sorry for the rant, but one of my favorite things is modifying automatics. I've repaired and rebuilt plenty of transmissions that had no reverse because the l/r band or clutch is worn, damaged or broken, and the cars still had L1, just no engine braking in that position.