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View Full Version : 65 fuel pump has me stumped



65cruiser
08-23-2006, 09:40 AM
This morning when I was going to work, I started the Cruiser as usual and got it backed about halfway out of the garage when it died. It restarted easily, I figured the choke just didn't get set and tried again. This time it died and would not restart. I have a full tank of gas. I checked for gas in the throat of the carb--nothing. I poured a bit of gas in the carb and the engine fired, ran about 20 seconds then died. Okay, a no fuel condition. I pulled the gas line off the carb and cranked, nothing there, so it's not a filter problem. Decided to take the day off:)

First thing I did was make sure the line from the tank to the fuel pump wasn't clogged. It's not as I got a nice mouthful of gas when I sucked on the line[xx(]. Then, I blew the line from the pump to the carb. It's clear. It's the fuel pump[}:)].

I pulled the pump off. When I actuated the lever--no pumping at all. So what the heck, take the pump apart and see what happened. I opened the pump up and it looked nice and clean. I worked the diaphragm by hand and could hear a sucking action. The only thing I found amiss was a little dime-sized metal screen which wasn't quite pushed into its hole. I pushed that back in, then reassembled the pump. I put it in a bucket of gasoline and worked the arm--gas squirts out. Oh God, now I'm thinking something's worn in the engine which is keeping the arm from actuating. The actual arm looks good, and I gave the finger test inside the block. All nice and smooth there (70,000 mile motor).

I scratch my head and put it all back together. I left the gas line undone at the carb when I cranked it. Nothing. Nada.:([xx(][V]. Okay, take it apart again.

I removed the pump and put it back in the bucket of gas and tried the arm again. It works. I decide to replace the pump. Napa doesn't stock it and it's not available[V]. He recommended an electric pump. I'm not ready to go there just yet. So.....

Prime the pump again, and reinstall. This time when I crank, I get a nice steady stream out of the fuel line. Hookup the carb, and the engine fires after about 15 seconds. It's running now.:)

But, I'm scared. What do you think happened here?

________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/smstude.jpg

Skip Lackie
08-23-2006, 10:59 AM
It's a 65 Cruiser, right? That means it has a Chevy/McKinnon 283, right? Fuel pumps for that ought to be available. My AC/Delco book lists AC number 40254, though other 65-66 Chevy 283 pumps would probably work by bending the fuel line. Any GM dealer ought to be able to get one for you.

One (remote) possibility if the fuel pump is not the problem: you might have a pin hole leak in the fuel line between the tank and the pump. This can cause intermittent stalling (especially if facing up hill), as the carb is getting both fuel and air. And if the pump runs dry and becomes de-primed, it will pump nothing. I had this problem on a 59 Lark, and it took a long time to diagnose, as the car would usually cure itself.
Skip Lackie

65cruiser
08-23-2006, 11:18 AM
It's a 65 Cruiser, but it has the 194 McKinnon 6. Napa couldn't even cross-reference that pump to a mid-60s Chevy. The leak in the line idea is intriguing.[B)]

________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/smstude.jpg

Skip Lackie
08-23-2006, 12:12 PM
Ah. Forgot that 65-66 Cruisers could be had with a 6. Both the 194 and 230 engines use AC pump number 6790. It was used on all Chevy 6-cyl engines 62-66 (except for the Corvair of course).
Skip Lackie

Roscomacaw
08-23-2006, 12:36 PM
Mark,

You took that pump apart, dinked around with it (probably blew into parts of it just to see if anything was lying loose in there), maybe tapped it on the bench/floor - whatever. Man, ALL IT TAKES to cripple one of those pumps is one TEENY, TINY bit of dirt or trash under the edge of one of the two poppet valves. Literally - one grain of sand can put that thing out of business! That's why I have a fuel filter AHEAD of the pump!;)
Skip might be right - and then again, you may have "fixed" it without actually SEEING what you did.[B)] Once one of those little phenolic valves is kept from closing tight, pumping stops - period.[xx(]

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

65cruiser
08-23-2006, 12:48 PM
Darn it Biggs, it sounds like you were standing in my garage watching what I was doing[:p]! Okay, it sounds like I need to install an inline filter. Also, I found an AC 6790 another user spoke of at Autozone. Strangely enough, NAPA said there weren't any of those available "anywhere in the world". So, I'm going to pickup a new one "just in case", then I'll add the filter. More parts for the trunk[8D]


quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Mark,

You took that pump apart, dinked around with it (probably blew into parts of it just to see if anything was lying loose in there), maybe tapped it on the bench/floor - whatever. Man, ALL IT TAKES to cripple one of those pumps is one TEENY, TINY bit of dirt or trash under the edge of one of the two poppet valves. Literally - one grain of sand can put that thing out of business! That's why I have a fuel filter AHEAD of the pump!;)
Skip might be right - and then again, you may have "fixed" it without actually SEEING what you did.[B)] Once one of those little phenolic valves is kept from closing tight, pumping stops - period.[xx(]

Miscreant at large.


________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/smstude.jpg

Mike Sal
08-23-2006, 01:22 PM
The Airtex p/n for this pump is also 6790. It is a very common number. Any store should be able to get one. I'd say the guy at NAPA just didn't want to help you.
Mike Sal

Transtar60
08-23-2006, 02:45 PM
According to NAPA website, only electric pumps available for 66 Stude.
However using the Airtex # came up with Fuel pump NPMF-3530 For $27.99.
Found this using the non NAPA part number search.
What NAPA was that?? I'd like to avoid them if possible.

65cruiser
08-23-2006, 02:51 PM
Actually, it was TWO Napa's. I even called the main warehouse downtown--no listing for a Studebaker and no AC 6790. I just got back from Autozone and picked up a 6790 for $24.00. It's in the trunk now (as inshoance), and I installed an inline filter.

Napa disappointed me because they've always had EVERYTHING I ever looked for (except an alternator). I've not had the best of luck with Autozone parts, but that was long ago. Maybe things have improved.

We'll see what happens next. FYI, I drove the car to Autozone and back (about 7 miles) and it ran just fine.[?]


quote:Originally posted by Transtar60

According to NAPA website, only electric pumps available for 66 Stude.
However using the Airtex # came up with Fuel pump NPMF-3530 For $27.99.
Found this using the non NAPA part number search.
What NAPA was that?? I'd like to avoid them if possible.


________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/smstude.jpg

Roscomacaw
08-23-2006, 05:05 PM
Don't ditch one auto place or another based on what they manage to find for you. Much more than the store chain, it's the guys behind the counter that make or break your hopes! If they are going to trust their computer - without question - you're doomed. Remember, computers in everyday life were science fiction in 1966![:0] There's been too much of a time lapse between the end of Studebaker and the adoption of the counter computers at parts stores! ALOT of the time, they (they meaning the parts chains) don't even know that they carry Stude parts still. It's up to you to educate them.[V]
OF COURSE!!! That's also the reason for Stude vendors being at your service.;) While it costs me a bit more, I'm more likely to call them if it's not something that I have to have RIGHT NOW.
And the more the chain stores inventories drift away from carrying Stude stuff, the more we'll be dependent on the vendors. Makes sense to help promote them today so they'll be here tomorrow!:)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

Mike
08-23-2006, 05:38 PM
I get some parts from Rock Auto, http://www.rockauto.com/ . Their data base includes Studebaker and Avanti II. They have the Airtex #6790 fuel pump for a '65 Cruiser six cyl for $28. "More Info" shows a picture of the pump.
The data base may be similar to what other auto parts places are looking at. Until recently, it included R3 Stude Avanti's, (9 cars!). So did the data base at Auto Zone.
Mike M.

65cruiser
08-24-2006, 07:10 AM
Thanks for all the replies! I drove her to work this morning and as usual, she performed flawlessly:D:D:D

________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/smstude.jpg

Transtar60
08-24-2006, 08:05 AM
quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Don't ditch one auto place or another based on what they manage to find for you. Much more than the store chain, it's the guys behind the counter that make or break your hopes! If they are going to trust their computer - without question - you're doomed. Remember, computers in everyday life were science fiction in 1966![:0] There's been too much of a time lapse between the end of Studebaker and the adoption of the counter computers at parts stores! ALOT of the time, they (they meaning the parts chains) don't even know that they carry Stude parts still. It's up to you to educate them.[V]
OF COURSE!!! That's also the reason for Stude vendors being at your service.;) While it costs me a bit more, I'm more likely to call them if it's not something that I have to have RIGHT NOW.
And the more the chain stores inventories drift away from carrying Stude stuff, the more we'll be dependent on the vendors. Makes sense to help promote them today so they'll be here tomorrow!:)

Miscreant at large.

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS


Mr.Biggs,
Thats why I go to the local NAPA in Corydon and the one in New Albany.
They have guys there that go above and beyond to help out.
And I do buy from vendors as often as possible.

Mike Sal
08-24-2006, 10:12 PM
Even thou most napa stores are still better than most (they tend to have "car guys" on staff as opposed to just anyone off the street), they are definitely going to the autozone model of business. My company supplies parts to them & we have to have people working the warehouse 7 days a week to ship orders out to napa. This puts the burden of stocking inventory on us, rather than them. The down side is they've cut out a lot of the slow running parts as well as not haveing a lot of stuff on the shelf when you walk in and need it. Take a look at the variety of brake lines they stock. They used to have gobs of sizes & lengths, but now a days, you wind up sticking several pieces together to replace a line & usually wind up with too much (that's why I started buying bulk line & making my own).
Mike Sal

65cruiser
08-25-2006, 06:52 AM
I've always preferred Napa, but on several occasions they've been unable to help me with my Studebaker. And Louisville has a Napa warehouse. If they don't show it in their computer, they will always look it up in their "big book". This is where they found the proper fuel pump, but said that it was made of unobtainium. Autozone on the other hand, put my year, make and model in their computer, and found the proper fuel pump on the shelf. I'm having a hard time understanding why Autozone would stock that, but Napa said it was unavailable.

Actually, I should have tried O'Reilly just for kicks. When my alternator went out, I called them on the phone. When I told the guy a 65 Studebaker, he said "65 huh, those had GM motors didn't they--let me check my book". At least he was somewhat knowledgeable about Studebakers. Turns out he didn't have the alternator, but knew of a private shop that did.


quote:Originally posted by Mike Sal

Even thou most napa stores are still better than most (they tend to have "car guys" on staff as opposed to just anyone off the street), they are definitely going to the autozone model of business. My company supplies parts to them & we have to have people working the warehouse 7 days a week to ship orders out to napa. This puts the burden of stocking inventory on us, rather than them. The down side is they've cut out a lot of the slow running parts as well as not haveing a lot of stuff on the shelf when you walk in and need it. Take a look at the variety of brake lines they stock. They used to have gobs of sizes & lengths, but now a days, you wind up sticking several pieces together to replace a line & usually wind up with too much (that's why I started buying bulk line & making my own).
Mike Sal


________________________
Mark Anderson
1965 Cruiser
http://home.alltel.net/anderm

http://home.alltel.net/anderm/images/smstude.jpg

DilloCrafter
08-25-2006, 12:30 PM
You guys are convincing me (via this thread) to keep buying from the people who know Studebakers - our vendors like:

Chuck Collins
http://www.studebakerparts.com

SASCO
http://www.studeparts.com

Studebaker International
http://www.studebaker-intl.com

Stephen Allen's
http://www.mystudebaker.com

to name a few.

If you have a favorite Stude vendor not in that list, tell us who it is.

http://rocketdillo.com/studebaker/misc/images/Current_Avacar.gif[/img=left] - DilloCrafter

1955 1/2 Ton Pickup
[i]The Red-Headed Amazon
Deep in the heart of Texas