the Avanti fix up saga - more progress

[edpjr]

Today was the day my '63 was supposed to go back to the body shop for rear bumper installation and finishing touches. My brother got up bright and early, fired her up, and headed 25 miles to the shop. Before he got out of town he turned on the wiper because of some drizzle. Then the wiper linkage came loose because, although I procured a chrome replacement arm for the passenger side, I hadn't installed it yet. [}] He rushed the car back home and fixed the linkage after cursing that a midget couldn't fit his hands up under the dash to properly work on it. He set out on the road again, with the car running smoothly for about 15 miles, and then it suddenly died. He pulled it off into a Super Mkt parking lot and started scratching his head?? He pulled off the new gas filter and found it completely clogged again. We called up my son and he drove my '66 Commander to meet my brother to help out. He picked up a new gas filter along the way. Once it was installed along with a liberal dose of carb cleaner, the car fired up and they set out the remaining 10 miles to the body shop. Five miles later, and in the absolute worse part of town, the Avanti died again. This time she was hopelessly clogged in the carb. No gas would squirt when the pump was mashed. Both guys worked till it became evident the car just wasn't going anywhere under its own power. So, instead of going to the body shop, it had to be towed to my mechanic another 25 miles away. OK, I'm finally getting that dam* rusted gas tank fixed once and for all!!! Then, I'm having all the gas lines cleaned out and the carb rebuilt. And, while it's at the gsrage I'm getting the trans fluid and filter changed and the coolant too. Who knows what else they'll find to work on...?[?] On an even brighter note, my son noticed while following the Avanti that it continuously expels white smoke from the right tailpipe. I sure hope that's a blown gasket instead on a cracked head or cylinder. [V] Anyway, the haunted Avanti is up to its old tricks again. It just doesn't want to go back to the body shop for some reason. [xx(] How was your day?


[img][/img]

edp/NC
'63 Avanti
'66 Commander

[mbstude]

My day was good. My old 259 powered Commander didn't give any trouble today.

Less than 2 weeks ago a front wheel bearing came apart and welded itself to the spindle. Ended up having to replace the whole steering knuckle/spindle, though I was lucky that I didn't have to remove the kingpin.

It'd been several months since I had gotten down and dirty with the car, I guess it was time something broke. []

The joys of old cars.

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

Biggs' H2O-Induction

[JDP]

Once rebuilt the engine in a Avanti that had sat for a few years for a friend and decided to drive it the 30 miles to his house. I had to take off the fuel pump and clean the crap out of it about every 5 miles. He later tried to have it boiled out only to find the bottom pin holed. He finally bought a new $600 stainless tank. I don't know why, but Avanti tanks seem to get nasty faster then the rest. Maybe it's because they are mounted so high up, but I've had a half dozen that need work.
I've learned to keep the tanks near full and use fuel stabilizer if they have to sit over a month.

JDP/Maryland

[edpjr]

How would you go about diagnosing the apparent problem with the right cylinder head?

quote:Originally posted by JDP

Once rebuilt the engine in a Avanti that had sat for a few years for a friend and decided to drive it the 30 miles to his house. I had to take off the fuel pump and clean the crap out of it about every 5 miles. He later tried to have it boiled out only to find the bottom pin holed. He finally bought a new $600 stainless tank. I don't know why, but Avanti tanks seem to get nasty faster then the rest. Maybe it's because they are mounted so high up, but I've had a half dozen that need work.
I've learned to keep the tanks near full and use fuel stabilizer if they have to sit over a month.

JDP/Maryland

edp/NC
'63 Avanti
'66 Commander

[Thomas63R2]

Ed, with time money and effort, it will turn out great and give you many miles of driving pleasure.

A few years back I dragged a forlorn old project car from the central valley to SoCal. It would actually start and run, but it was a real steaming pile otherwise. It sat in my side yard for a couple of years before one of my friends bought it as a "gift" to his girl friend who has a love of classic cars. Must have worked because they're married now. They were in over their heads, but they had a lot of ambition. They asked for my advice and I told them to pick a corner and go to work because it needed EVERYTHING. I also predicted that after they started getting it fixed up that the compliments would come rolling in. Sure enough, after a TON of work they now get people telling them how "lucky" they were to find one so nice!

Funny how it works, but most people have no idea of all the work that it takes to make an old car a good car. Your Avanti is looking good. Your efforts to bring the mechanics up to the standard of the aesthetics will be its own reward. The memory of all the trials and tribulations will fade, replaced by your satisfaction - and it doesn't hurt any that a fully sorted Avanti is a lot of fun to drive.

Thomas

[Gunslinger]

Have you smelled the exhaust on the right side? If it smells like coolant, you have a blown head gasket or a cracked head. Also check your oil dipstick and see if it smells like coolant is mixed in. Ethlene glycol and engine bearings do not make a happy combination. Do not drive the car...get it corrected immediately, followed by an engine flush and fresh oil and filter.

It's possible the fuel pump is bad and is dumping gasoline into the oil...the dipstick will smell like gasoline in that case. That happened to me in the '63 R1 I used to own...plenty of smoke out the back, the rpm's went high and no power. That may not be your problem or you'd be seeing smoke out of both sides of the exhaust.

If your gas tank is that bad, passing crud through the fuel pump could have caused damage to it when pumping it further to the gas filter and the carburetor. A fuel filter should really be installed between the gas tank and the fuel pump, not between the fuel pump and the carburetor but few manufacturers did that.

Is your car acting hard to start...like it has to work too hard to even crank over? If so, you might have a cracked head or blown head gasket and coolant is filling up the cylinder and since liquids are non-compressible, the piston won't travel completely until the valves open. If it cranks over normally, you probably don't have that problem.

If you want to find out whether you have a blown head gasket or cracked head, pull the spark plugs on the right side...if any are wet, you have coolant getting into the combustion chamber. If two plugs side-by-side are wet, the head gasket is blown between them. You could also remove the plugs, pull and ground the coil wire and crank the engine...if any cylinders have coolant in them, the coolant will shoot out and hit your garage ceiling (don't ask me how I know that!).

Besides repairing or replacing the gas tank, the easiest and least expensive thing could be little more than a flushing of the fuel lines and a rebuilt carburetor. Maybe a new fuel pump might not be a bad idea even if it's not hurt from passing the crud through it...maybe just on general principles since you're taking care of everything else in the fuel system. Let's hope the cylinder head and gasket are not the problem.

I feel your bother's pain about accessing the wiper motor! Been there...done that. I believe the Studebaker engineers started with a wiper motor and radio and built a car around them.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

[buddymander]

Trans fluid burns white.

[jlmccuan]

What is that old saying about beautiful women and high maintenance?

Jim
Often in error, never in doubt

____1966 Avanti II RQA 0088_______________1963 Avanti R2 63R3152____________Rabid Snail Racing

[gordr]

If an engine is "burning" coolant, even straight water, the spark plug in the affected cylinder will typically be sparkling clean, with nice white porcelain on the tip, as opposed to the dusty brown/tan seen on normal plugs.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

[JDP]

Keep a eye on the coolant level to see if it's dropping. White smoke could be as simple as water vapor from combustion on a cool day and a bad heat riser.

JDP/Maryland

[candbstudebakers]

Your day did not go to well but still better than silver and black 61 wagon, pulled off one of the pieces of frame repair angle iron and found the frame rotted away and of all places at the rear spring support, looks like the car might be junk as the owner has no money to fix it right, maybe we can put pressure on old owner to take back might have to take him to court as he sold a car with safety issues, this car with a 350 SBC engine and a small 27 rear end and 9" rear brakes all installed wrong and the bad spring supports might just come a part on a fast take off, take a look...bob



Also part of the custom frame repair kit..



Bob Peterson / C & B Studebakers

Castro Valley, CA
canbstudebakers-

[jimmijim8]

Trans fluid can enter the combustion chamber through a faulty trans vacuum modulator but Studes don't use them. jimmijim

Stude Junkie+++++++Do it right the f$$$$ Time. Never mind. Just do it right. When youre done your done. You'll know it.

[edpjr]

Thanks for the encouragement. [8D] I think getting the fuel system completely redone will work wonders for the car's reliability. Changing out the distributor to a Tebow electronic system sure paid off.

quote:Originally posted by Thomas63R2

Ed, with time money and effort, it will turn out great and give you many miles of driving pleasure.

A few years back I dragged a forlorn old project car from the central valley to SoCal. It would actually start and run, but it was a real steaming pile otherwise. It sat in my side yard for a couple of years before one of my friends bought it as a "gift" to his girl friend who has a love of classic cars. Must have worked because they're married now. They were in over their heads, but they had a lot of ambition. They asked for my advice and I told them to pick a corner and go to work because it needed EVERYTHING. I also predicted that after they started getting it fixed up that the compliments would come rolling in. Sure enough, after a TON of work they now get people telling them how "lucky" they were to find one so nice!

Funny how it works, but most people have no idea of all the work that it takes to make an old car a good car. Your Avanti is looking good. Your efforts to bring the mechanics up to the standard of the aesthetics will be its own reward. The memory of all the trials and tribulations will fade, replaced by your satisfaction - and it doesn't hurt any that a fully sorted Avanti is a lot of fun to drive.

Thomas

edp/NC
'63 Avanti
'66 Commander

[doug]

jimmijim8 - The vacuum modulator on my '62 Champ pickup failed and sucked up a lot of trans fluid. Made a HUGE cloud of smoke also.

[edpjr]

There's a lotta good info here - Thanks! First the exhaust does not smell like coolant and neither does the oil. There's no indication of water causing foam or bubbles in the oil. It looks fine. While I'm sure the fuel pump has been abused by sediment, it still seems to pump fine. I may get a kit for it anyway after all the lines and the gas tank are cleaned out. The car was hard to start at the onset of cold weather, but after changing out the 2nd plugged gas filter and learning to pump the accelerator a bunch of times before turning key, it typically fires up on the 1st try now. We changed the spark plugs and wires about a month ago. All eight of the plugs were burned completely up and dirty with deposits, but no sign of oil coating. So, if a head gasket failure or other malady has occurred it must've been in the last few weeks. The engine does not miss and seems to run great (whenever it can consistently get fuel to the carb).

quote:Originally posted by Gunslinger

Have you smelled the exhaust on the right side? If it smells like coolant, you have a blown head gasket or a cracked head. Also check your oil dipstick and see if it smells like coolant is mixed in. Ethlene glycol and engine bearings do not make a happy combination. Do not drive the car...get it corrected immediately, followed by an engine flush and fresh oil and filter.

It's possible the fuel pump is bad and is dumping gasoline into the oil...the dipstick will smell like gasoline in that case. That happened to me in the '63 R1 I used to own...plenty of smoke out the back, the rpm's went high and no power. That may not be your problem or you'd be seeing smoke out of both sides of the exhaust.

If your gas tank is that bad, passing crud through the fuel pump could have caused damage to it when pumping it further to the gas filter and the carburetor. A fuel filter should really be installed between the gas tank and the fuel pump, not between the fuel pump and the carburetor but few manufacturers did that.

Is your car acting hard to start...like it has to work too hard to even crank over? If so, you might have a cracked head or blown head gasket and coolant is filling up the cylinder and since liquids are non-compressible, the piston won't travel completely until the valves open. If it cranks over normally, you probably don't have that problem.

If you want to find out whether you have a blown head gasket or cracked head, pull the spark plugs on the right side...if any are wet, you have coolant getting into the combustion chamber. If two plugs side-by-side are wet, the head gasket is blown between them. You could also remove the plugs, pull and ground the coil wire and crank the engine...if any cylinders have coolant in them, the coolant will shoot out and hit your garage ceiling (don't ask me how I know that!).

Besides repairing or replacing the gas tank, the easiest and least expensive thing could be little more than a flushing of the fuel lines and a rebuilt carburetor. Maybe a new fuel pump might not be a bad idea even if it's not hurt from passing the crud through it...maybe just on general principles since you're taking care of everything else in the fuel system. Let's hope the cylinder head and gasket are not the problem.

I feel your bother's pain about accessing the wiper motor! Been there...done that. I believe the Studebaker engineers started with a wiper motor and radio and built a car around them.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

edp/NC
'63 Avanti
'66 Commander