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61rat
01-23-2007, 11:05 PM
How do i know what rearend i have in my truck? Its a 61 champ 6ETB w/170 inline 6 & 3 on the tree. Any help as i wish to change the gear ratio.

Transtar60
01-24-2007, 06:21 AM
Unless its been changed out its a Dana 44, referred to as a Spicer 2211 in the truck shop manual.
Dana 44 parts are widely available.

3E38
4E2
4E28
5E13
7E7
8E7
8E12
8E28
4E2
59 Lark
etc

Roscomacaw
01-24-2007, 11:19 AM
As Charlie says, a Dana 44 is what should be there. With the "gear case" in that rear, the lowest gears you could use would be 4.10. If you want to go with lower gears still, you'll have to come up with a different gear case as well. This case could be gotten from a car axle with lower gears. [^]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

61rat
01-24-2007, 03:55 PM
I used to work at DAna. In fact I worked there when i puchased this truck. I was told the gears had been changed by a former owner. How can i tell visually what rear end i have? Any code numbers i can find on the rearend? thanks for all your help, and keep the info coming.

Stude4x4
01-24-2007, 04:23 PM
Were you told that just the gears were changed or the whole axle? Visually the cover will be 10 bolts and oblong shape. But many other axles have the same appearance as well. My book tells me this: For quick ID reference, Dana puts the model# (28,30,44,50,60,70,80) raised in the casting of the center housing. All Dana axle assemblies are also marked by both a stamped # in one of the axle tubes and labled by a metal tag attached to a cover bolt. Once this "Bill of Material" is found, the # can be cross referenced in a DANA XGI catalog. The "B.O.M" # will look like this: 6010445-2=Ford Model 60 Front 1994-F350. As far as gear choices and parts it is endless. Your choice of gears will depend on which case you have. The case changed at 3.73- and 3.92+. You can get gears in any ratio desired. You can give me your bill of material number and i'll look it up for you.

Jake

-Home of John Studebaker-
http://community.webshots.com/user/Stude4x4
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Dick Steinkamp
01-24-2007, 04:31 PM
OK...by "what rearend" are asking "what gear ratio do I have"?.

There should be a metal tab under one of the rear cover bolts. On that tab will be the ratio and-or the number of teeth on the ring gear and the number of teeth on the pinion. Divide the big number by the small number and that will give you the ratio.

If there is not a metal tab under a bolt, jack up the rear of the car, put it on jack stands and turn the drive shaft counting the revolutions and portions of a revolution until you get a wheel to turn one full turn. About 4 turns and you have a 4.09, four and a half turns and you have a 4.55, three and three quarter turns and you have a 3.73.

If you are asking "what make and model rear end do I have"...if it is a DANA 44 there will be a 44 on the right side web between the axle tube and the pumpkin looking at the rear end from the back of the truck. If some previous owner switched it out for a brand X, youll have to post a picture of it so we can help ID it.




http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

Roscomacaw
01-24-2007, 07:51 PM
What Dick said.... are you asking what rear end assy you have or WHAT GEARS you have?

"44" Should be visible where it's cast into one of the webs where the axle tube meets the cast housing. Even if there isn't a tag under one of the bolts (assuming it's a Dana) you could remove the cover and look at the edge of the face that the ring gear mounts with. It should TELL you how many teeth are on it. From that you could deduce the ratio.;)

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

61rat
01-25-2007, 04:04 PM
thanks guys, I will check as soon as i can get a chance. Then i'll let you know. The guy i bought the truck from said it had a different rearend or gears. He didn't really know, he knows nothing of cars i'm assuming.

greener_dude
02-04-2007, 06:41 PM
Im in a similar situation with a 1955 c-cab pickup. I dont have the workshop manual and was wondering what the rear end gears it would have and where I could go to get replacements so I can change them. I have changed the motor to a 305 chev and the tranny to a th-350 with torq-lockup. I also got a custom drivshaft made up and balanced. When I test drove the truck I felt that it was geared too low and want to get some highway economy out of it. I am thinking that they are 4.11's or 4.88's but need someone that knows more about it. What would be a decent replacement gear?

mbstude
02-04-2007, 07:03 PM
My '59 PU has a Dana 44 in it. It had a 4:27 rear originally. Driving it, you'd be in second gear by the time you got to the end of the driveway. [:0] It was screaming at 55 mph with the OD engaged. We changed the gears to a 3:53 from a '60 Hawk. Now, it'll cruise all day at 65 mph with that little six hummin' right along... [8D]

I know this is basically what others have said, but...
One way to check to see what you have, if the tag is gone, is to pull the cover and read the stamped numbers on the biggest gear. (I forget what it's called...) For example, the old one from my truck has "47/11" stamped into it. If you divide that out, it comes out to 4:27. Sure beats counting all those little teeth. ;)

___________________________________________

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, Georgia
'59 Scotsman PU
'63 Daytona HT

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/mbstude/truck_pretty_sky.jpg
http://mbstudebaker.blogspot.com/

greener_dude
02-04-2007, 07:52 PM
Thanks for the tip, i'll check for the number on the biggest gear. What kind of oil would you use in the rear end and if I crack it open does that mean I have to put a new gasket in or could i get away with re-using the old one with the help of some atv gasket maker?

Transtar60
02-04-2007, 09:02 PM
I would use a new gasket, even Autozone has them, just be prepared to give them a Jeep or Ford DANA 44 application.
I got one for my Dana 60 which is also used on HD Jeep pickups, Fords, Dodges etc.

3E38
4E2
4E28
5E13
7E7
8E7
8E12
8E28
4E2
59 Lark
etc

Dick Steinkamp
02-04-2007, 10:15 PM
quote:Originally posted by greener_dude
if I crack it open does that mean I have to put a new gasket in or could i get away with re-using the old one with the help of some atv gasket maker?



A new gasket is common and cheaper than a tube of RTV.



http://thenobot.org/images/s2d/s2d_01.jpg

61rat
03-13-2007, 08:34 PM
Well it is a Dana 44 w/3.31 gears. Well at least the tag says 3.31 gears. I don't know if they were changed. But i'll keep you updated when i open up the case in a few weeks. Right now i'm tryin to find a new motor for the truck. Thanks for all your help guys.

1961HAWK
03-13-2007, 08:47 PM
yes checking them by pulling the cover is the best way to find out what gear you could get. if it is on the road and you have a tach you can use alittle math to figure it out too.
get trans mission in a 1 to 1 ratio wheather that is drive, 4th or 3rd not in overdrive. the check your rpm at 60 mph. write it down. example 2000

then measure your tire height.
multiply tire hieght by pi 3.14
example 27 in tall tire x 3.14= 84.78
divid your sum by 12. (84.78/12= 7.065) that is tire diameter in feet.

now guess alittle using formula
rpm/rearend gearxtire diameterx60/5280=mph
example
2000/3.08=649.350
649.350x7.065=4587.663
4587.663x60=275259.740
275259/5280=53mph not quit 60 mph gear is higher try 2.73 and repeat.
if your awnser is 70 mph try a lower gear 3.31 3.54 and so on. take only a minute after you know the formula. worka well for figuring max rpm you want to run in 1/4 mile to guess a good gear.
anyway its another way
erin

p.s. 2.73 net 59 mph at 2000 rpm
3.31 2500rpm at 60
3.54 2650rpm at 60
3.73 2800 at 60
so on and so on

Erin Hays
1961 Hawk
1962 Lark
1963 Wagonaire

Stude4x4
03-13-2007, 09:40 PM
When you pull the cover just check the numbers stamped on the ring gear. There should be a 43-13 stamped on there if it is a 3.31 ratio.

Jake

-Home of John Studebaker-
http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/stude4x4/http://varozza4x4.com
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StudeRich
03-14-2007, 10:09 PM
Well IF it is a 3.31 it definetely HAS been changed, as trucks only go as high (low numerically) as 3.73 so your "ear" or Tach. are off, it already is a good cruising, high speed ratio! [^] Maybe you need a new clutch, quieter muffler or more insulation. In fact a "6" could not pull a Truck with a load without burning the clutch up with that high a ratio!! [:0]


quote:Originally posted by 61rat

Well it is a Dana 44 w/3.31 gears. Well at least the tag says 3.31 gears. I don't know if they were changed. But I'll keep you updated when i open up the case in a few weeks. Right now I'm trying to find a new motor for the truck. Thanks for all your help guys.


StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

Roscomacaw
03-15-2007, 04:31 PM
MB writes:
"My '59 PU has a Dana 44 in it. It had a 4:27 rear originally. Driving it, you'd be in second gear by the time you got to the end of the driveway. It was screaming at 55 mph with the OD engaged."

Matthew, I've been running 4.27 gears in Pete for some years now. I don't sense him "screaming" at 55. In fact, Pete sounds happiest over 70. And he's happy to do more[:p]!
I will say that the stock T-85 3spd is done with 1st gear in a hurry, but that's as it should be. The low gear's for getting started with a load.
I have a truck rear with 3.73 gears in it that I want to put under Pete eventually. My primary aim is to see if I can eek out another MPG or so. Of course, 1st gear will be more meaningful with that ratio, but that's OK with me.[^]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

Stude4x4
03-15-2007, 04:59 PM
Biggs, what mpg are you getting with pete right now? My dad used to get 18 mpg highway out of the '58 when it was a stock 2 wheel drive with the 3spd OD. I can't remember what gears it had. I think they were 4.27.

Jake

-Home of John Studebaker-
http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/stude4x4/http://varozza4x4.com
http://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/stude4x4/th_505911685npTTka_fs.jpghttp://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/stude4x4/th_FullSize.jpghttp://s158.photobucket.com/albums/t95/stude4x4/th_normal_scan.jpg

Roscomacaw
03-15-2007, 05:30 PM
I haven't checked mileage at all since the new engine and Edelbrock were put in. It used to get 18 on the hiway if I drove it right.;)
Pete used to have 4.10s under him and when I switched to 4.27, I really couldn't tell any difference in performance!

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle
http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/906179/2006/12/7/truckonhill3.jpg

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

1961HAWK
03-15-2007, 05:52 PM
depending on your tire hieght i would think 4.27 in overdrive would be around 2750 rpm @ 70. my lark without overdrive travels at that allday
no prob.

Erin Hays
1961 Hawk
1962 Lark
1963 Wagonaire