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knock diagnosis not the flex plate

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  • knock diagnosis not the flex plate

    Ok, I pulled the inspection cover off the bell housing and took a look at the flex plate. I rotated the torque converter 360 degrees. All bolts on the flex plate are nice and tight and there are no signs of cracks on it, no play or noises when turning the engine over. There are also no metal shavings either. It would lead me to believe that the flex plate is fine. Before I pull the engine, is there anything else that I should look for? Kinda thinking pulling the front cover with the timing gears is the next step before pulling it out of there. Does anyone have any suggestions?
    Thanks,
    Bob

  • #2
    Bob, chances are you won't see the cracks with the torque converter mounted. Take a look at what I found when I tore my engine down:

    Here's the flex plate with the stiffener in place, after the TC was removed. Looks pretty normal so far.


    Here's what I found after the stiffener was off. The plate tends to crack in a circle around the inner bolts.


    The entire inner bolt circle was actually cracked apart from the rest of the plate. Here's some close-ups:



    With the symptoms you've been describing, it's almost a given that the flex plate is toast. Just 'cause you can't see it, don't mean it ain't there (unfortunately).


    [img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

    Clark in San Diego
    '63 F2/Lark Standard

    The Official Website of the San Diego Chapter of the Studebaker Drivers Club. Serving San Diego County

    Clark in San Diego | '63 Standard (F2) "Barney" | http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for posting the pics Clark. Saved me lots of typing to try and describe it.

      Matthew Burnette
      Hazlehurst, GA

      Comment


      • #4
        Ok.. next dumb question.. how do you get the flex plate bolts loose from the torque converter. They seem pretty well stuck on and not much clearance to get in there.

        Comment


        • #5
          This was where the fun part started for me(actually I left it to one of our Stude shop guys in the club to do it). The trans was pulled from the rear on a lift and completely taken out to get to the flexplate. Keep in mind you're looking at this flexplate literally from edge on through that inspection hole, so you may need to contort around a little to see the surface. On that note, this was my flexplate when it was replaced. It's also a walk down ol' memory lane as I posted this when it was changed :




          [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010531-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
          [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010550-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
          [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
          [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

          1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
          1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
          1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
          1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

          Comment


          • #6
            Both of these pics are great examples of what [u]usually</u> (not always) is caused by a mis-aligned Torque Converter Housing, not having been dialed-in, when the engine was changed.

            In Clark's case, I am almost sure of it, since it had I believe a '57 engine in a '63 Lark.

            StudeRich
            StudeRich
            Second Generation Stude Driver,
            Proud '54 Starliner Owner
            SDC Member Since 1967

            Comment


            • #7
              Well, I know this will come as just utter shock, but the one that I had came from an all stock drivetrain. The whole drivetrain was pulled from the '63 Hawk and plunked in the Lark, that is before engine and trans were gone through. Mine was less about being dialed in(it was verified as being zeroed in when it was reinstalled) and more about the age of an ailing part.

              [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010531-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
              [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010550-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
              [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
              [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

              1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
              1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
              1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
              1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

              Comment


              • #8
                Wow, John! I thought mine was in bad shape [:0]

                What Rich said about the bellhousing alignment was correct in my case. I had the original engine, trans & bellhousing, but some service shop replaced the TC and didn't bother to install the alignment dowels upon reassembly.


                [img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

                Clark in San Diego
                '63 F2/Lark Standard

                The Official Website of the San Diego Chapter of the Studebaker Drivers Club. Serving San Diego County

                Clark in San Diego | '63 Standard (F2) "Barney" | http://studeblogger.blogspot.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have a stock 55 champion with the same sound diagnosis, I have been driving for at least 6 mo. and finally put it in storage for the winter. Can the motor [flathead six] be moved forward enuff]rad removal,fan,water pump] to be able to do this job without removing the trans. I can only lift the car a foot and a half to get under it and i don't think i can do it myself. getting older and all that.lol

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm sure I read on this forum that some members remove the stiffener and add another flex plate.
                    Is that an option to increase the longevity of the flex plate by stiffening the whole section ie doubling it?
                    I would be interested in the thoughts of those who have done that.
                    pb

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      quote:
                      I have a stock 55 champion with the same sound diagnosis, I have been driving for at least 6 mo. and finally put it in storage for the winter. Can the motor [flathead six] be moved forward enuff]rad removal,fan,water pump] to be able to do this job without removing the trans. I can only lift the car a foot and a half to get under it and i don't think i can do it myself. getting older and all that.lol
                      Let me toss a name of the folks that did my car for this question:

                      Deluxe Auto Werks
                      Street: 319 Wilson Avenue
                      West Chicago, il 60185-3151
                      Phone: (630) 293-7750

                      They should be able to help with these questions as he's done more than a few flexplates in this case, including mine . I will also admit that my style of driving probably didn't help things any either(I like engine braking a little too much, lol).
                      Yeah with my flexplate, if I recall that had to be, ahem encouraged a little, to be removed as it's been there for awhile. That's the reason for the two pieces. But yeah, it was in bad shape when it finally came off. I would recommend that when or if the trans has to come off that it also a good time to replace all of the engine and tranny mounts that are in bad shape or have not been replaced. I replaced my driver's side, but could not replace the replace passenger side. They asked for two new tranny mounts and replaced both of them at once when the transmission came out of the car, which is always a good idea. It was like killing two birds with one stone in this instance, as this is a job that isn't pleasant by itself.

                      [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010531-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
                      [IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010550-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
                      [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
                      [IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

                      1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
                      1963 Studebaker Daytona Hardtop with no engine or transmission
                      1950 Studebaker 2R5 w/170 six cylinder and 3spd OD
                      1955 Studebaker Commander Hardtop w/289 and 3spd OD and Megasquirt port fuel injection(among other things)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I replaced the flex plate in my '63 Lark many years ago and I pulled the 6 cylinder engine out of it for this. Unfortunately, I didnt dial indicate the bellhousing and within about 2000 miles it broke again and hasnt been driven since. Now its a parts car.


                        Brent's rootbeer racer.
                        MN iron ore...it does your body good.
                        sigpic
                        In the middle of MinneSTUDEa.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well I just spent the day pulling the engine... guess what.. the flex plate is perfect... so... looks like I'm gonna have a happy thanksgiving this year. Only thing it can be now is a rod.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            may not apply but here goes is thw converter bolted on or did they use rivits to hold the mounting tangs on to the flywheel. had a ford with ford-o-matic that knocked like a banchee.ran great,just knocked at take off and low speeds.i thought main bearing,one day pulled engine and trans removed trans,started to remove converter when it started to wiggle checking mounting tangs and sure enough some worn rivits,replaced rivits reinstalled engine/trans and its still running today.

                            2006,f-150,2x4,v-6,5-speed manual,8ft bed, will post stude info when i get it on the road.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If it's a rod you should see it in the oil.

                              Joseph R. Zeiger
                              Joseph R. Zeiger

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