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mimi
11-13-2009, 10:58 AM
Your Board is in the midst of a discussion about whether we should be polybagging Turnining Wheels in order to prevent it being damaged in the mail. It isn't clear to me that this is a large enough problem to warrant the expense of polybagging every issue. Polybagging will cost the club upwards of $15,000 to $20,000 dollars a year depending upon how many are bagged.

I would appreciate hearing from those of you who have received damaged Turning Wheels, eg. how often does it happen, what kind of damage, would you be willing to pay more in dues to cover the expense?

Thanks for your input.

Mimi Halgren

Chris Pile
11-13-2009, 11:09 AM
Well, it doesn't happen that often with my TW's - but when it does, the Post Office always makes a mess of it.

Chris Pile
Editor: The Studebaker Special
http://midwaystudebakers.tripod.com/

ST2DE5
11-13-2009, 11:09 AM
In the last 25 years I think I have only had 3 issues damaged I have got replacements with no problem. But this month I haven't received one yet.

7G-Q1 49 2R12 10G-F5 56B-D4 56B-F2
http://ozarktrails.tripod.com/

Milaca
11-13-2009, 11:19 AM
Hello Mimi, I haven't had any problems myself but have an alternative possible solution. Maybe a contributing cause to the problem is that Turning Wheels is sized and oriented differently than traditional magazines. Turning Wheels is 11.00" x 8.50" high whereas other magazines are 8.00" x 10.75" high. The narrower pages of traditional magazines make them stiffer, less flimsy. My theory is that the wider pages of Turning Wheels may make them more susceptible to damage due to shipping/handling.
Have a good day!
Brent Herges

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3473/3939471781_afa477b3ae_t.jpg
Brent's rootbeer racer.
MN iron ore...it does your body good.

Dick Steinkamp
11-13-2009, 11:27 AM
I can remember 1 or 2 in the last 15 years that were slightly damaged. I never asked for replacements since they were still all readable. I know I could have gotten replacements if it bugged me.

Maybe an upcharge for those that want a bagged TW (like we do for faster postal service)?

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA
http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/IMG_7215-1.jpg http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/IMG_7216-1.jpg

silverhawk
11-13-2009, 11:31 AM
The only damage I get is from stupid mail people. being lazy and just stuffing it all into the mailbox.:( No offense intended to people that work for the USPS, and it has been getting better with a different mail person. :)

Dylan Wills
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr200/1961lark/My%201961%20studebaker%20lark/Watcomcountyminimeet09andJamesBells.jpg
'61 lark deluxe 4 door wagon

Pat Dilling
11-13-2009, 11:39 AM
I agree with Brent. Because of the layout of Turning Wheels it does not nest in with other magazines and catalogs. When the postal worker rolls or folds it along with the others to fit in the mailbox the spine gets bent. I know that Studebaker likes to be different, but different is usually good when it serves some purpose. I can't see a benefit to the current layout, but I do see the disadvantage of making it more difficult for the USPS to handle, sometimes resulting in damage. I would much rather see Turning Wheels follow publishing convention than going to the expense of wrapping.

my $.02

Pat


quote:Originally posted by Milaca

Hello Mimi, I haven't had any problems myself but have an alternative possible solution. Maybe a contributing cause to the problem is that Turning Wheels is sized and oriented differently than traditional magazines. Turning Wheels is 11.00" x 8.50" high whereas other magazines are 8.00" x 10.75" high. The narrower pages of traditional magazines make them stiffer, less flimsy. My theory is that the wider pages of Turning Wheels may make them more susceptible to damage due to shipping/handling.
Have a good day!
Brent Herges

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3473/3939471781_afa477b3ae_t.jpg
Brent's rootbeer racer.
MN iron ore...it does your body good.


Pat Dilling
Olivehurst, CA
Custom '53 Starlight aka Stu Cool
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/stucool53/StuCoolsmallerSigpic.jpg
LS1 Engine Swap Journal: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/journal.php?action=view&journalid=33611

mbstude
11-13-2009, 11:42 AM
In 10 years of getting my own TW, I think I remember one with a slightly messed up cover. So no issues here. :)

Matthew Burnette
Hazlehurst, GA

53k
11-13-2009, 11:46 AM
quote:Originally posted by mimi

Your Board is in the midst of a discussion about whether we should be polybagging Turnining Wheels in order to prevent it being damaged in the mail. It isn't clear to me that this is a large enough problem to warrant the expense of polybagging every issue. Polybagging will cost the club upwards of $15,000 to $20,000 dollars a year depending upon how many are bagged.
I would appreciate hearing from those of you who have received damaged Turning Wheels, eg. how often does it happen, what kind of damage, would you be willing to pay more in dues to cover the expense?
Thanks for your input.
Mimi Halgren

I don't remember ever receiving a damaged Turning Wheels and I have been receiving them since Day One. I would say that the use of bagging would be far more expensive than replacing the few that are damaged.




Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia. '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Daytona convertible, '53 Commander Starliner, Museum R-4 engine, '62 Gravely Model L, '72 Gravely Model 430

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/Copy%20of%20broken%20circle.jpghttp://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/Copy%20of%201-1-08%20002.jpghttp://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/Copy%20of%201-1-08%20004.jpghttp://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/Copy%20of%201-1-08%20006.jpg

JBOYLE
11-13-2009, 11:55 AM
My last isue was the worse yet, something had wet on a corner of it.
It was still damp when I got it, but it was still readable.
Occasionally, it looks like it was the bottom copy of a bundle so it's a bit worn.

Not sure if the problem is worth $20k a year. My higher priced magazines come in polybags, but they can afford it.

BTW: When I renewed my membership I also ordered a new SDC roster. When I got it, the post office had a big stamp on the envelope saying they opened it for inspection.
Whattheheck[?]
Maybe they didn't believe it was media mail?
Anyone else had that problem?

63 Avanti R1 2788
1914 Stutz Bearcat
(George Barris replica)

Washington State

50Champ
11-13-2009, 12:14 PM
The last one I got was jammed into my PO box the wrong way and was pretty bent up. Instead of putting it in so the spine of the magazine is parallel to the box the genius folded it at the spine and crammed it in there. I know it's not the Club's fault but you would think that postal employees who make over $20 an hour would be intelligent enough to place it in the box without damaging it. Rant over....:)

PS..........If I had a vote I'd say no to the polybagging idea....

http://pic20.picturetrail.com:80/VOL1188/4526177/20234971/329233113.jpg

1950 Champion 2 Dr. Sedan

Flashback
11-13-2009, 12:17 PM
I don't think the extra expense is warrented.

Tex E. Grier
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn320/Flashback53/DSC_0045-3.jpg

259man
11-13-2009, 12:30 PM
I have received a damaged TW probably no more than 2-3 times over the last 9 years. I agree that it would probably be cheaper to replace the few that are damaged than to put all of them in bags.

Thanks.

Tom
1960 Lark VIII
1962 Lark Cruiser

jclary
11-13-2009, 12:31 PM
I believe that the money could be better used to recruit new members and retain old ones and lessen the chances of having to raise the membership dues. A well composed letter to the Postmaster reminding them of how easy it is now days to use other media to replace their service might encourage better care and handling.:):):)

John Clary
Greer, SC
http://i518.photobucket.com/albums/u346/jconln/HPIM0372-2.jpg
Life... is what happens as you are making plans.
SDC member since 1975

PeterHawk
11-13-2009, 12:32 PM
Two issues in 2 years and those only had the covers wrinkled. If money needs to be spent, I vote for more color not polybagging.

Mark57
11-13-2009, 12:39 PM
Mimi,

I note you have also polled Zone Coordinators on this issue. This is not an issue for Canadian members as our issues are shipped from a Canadian address back east and they all come in a large white envelope marked "Do not fold". I know members in our Chapter seldom have a problem. :)

Mark Hayden
President
Vancouver Island Chapter

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island Chapter
http://visdc.shawwebspace.ca/ </h5>

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/zonemt1a.jpg

2R5
11-13-2009, 12:42 PM
For us up here in Canada it seems that since they changed the way the Canadian TWs are shipped its been alot better . We used to get them in envelopes that were so beaten up that it was a wonder we ever got them but since the change they come as if they were just from next door ! ;)
Don't change :D

[IMG]http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/2R5/smallchamp-1.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/2R5/2008Daytona.jpg
Home of the Fried Green Tomato
"IF YOU WANT THE SMILES YOU NEED TO DO THE MILES "

1960 Champ
1964 Daytona HT
1966 Daytona SS

lvanw
11-13-2009, 12:44 PM
I pay for first class mail
no problem that way
John

wolfie
11-13-2009, 12:59 PM
The biggest damage mine ever have is from being folded in half which polybagging wont stop. Ive never had an issue damaged badly enough that I felt like it warranted replacing it. Steve

http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll160/wolfie_53/T-cabhoodsprings015.jpg

Andy R.
11-13-2009, 01:14 PM
It's so thoughtful that this idea is presented to us to weigh in. Thank you for that.:)

Damage occurs so seldom, I don't think it's a warranted expense.

Besides, if I start receiving poly-bagged magazines in the mail, my wife is going to start asking a lot of questions...[}:)];)

Andy
62 GT

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3160/3069855932_de3d120955_t.jpg

Bullet
11-13-2009, 01:34 PM
I'll add my 2 cents. In 30+ years as a member, I hav eonly had two issues that had a problem and they were years apart. This months Nov issue was received ok, but the cover felt like it was ready to come off, but did not and has not.

I, too, would vote no on poly bagging.



http://i565.photobucket.com/albums/ss93/mwarmann/scan0019-1.jpg

Milaca
11-13-2009, 01:42 PM
Something that might help the existing magazine format would be to add a piece of tape over the open end of the magazine to prevent the pages from opening during shipping/handling.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3473/3939471781_afa477b3ae_t.jpg
Brent's rootbeer racer.
MN iron ore...it does your body good.

BobGlasscock
11-13-2009, 02:09 PM
Mimi,

Thanks for asking for input, the world doesn't see that interest much anymore.

The answer, in my simple mind, is SO simple! How many issues per year does the club replace and what is that cost? Anything less than $15K makes bagging a waste. I know it has been included in posts in the last few weeks, but I don't remember what the monthly or yearly cost of printing and mailing is, but I'd bet it would take a lot of replacements to equal that cost making bagging worthwhile. But then again, I get National Geographic in a bag and still have bent corners on occasion.

'50 Champion, 1 family owner
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg316/studebakerbob/SDC%20avatar/Studebakerstuff019.jpghttp://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg316/studebakerbob/SDC%20avatar/Studebakerstuff018.jpg

HookedonStudies
11-13-2009, 02:12 PM
I'll agree with Andy - I appreciate being asked. And then I will also have to agree with the consensus that the cost far exceeds the need. Only a couple of times have I received a wet or wrinkled copy

Pat Casey
55 Commander
58 Transtar
62 GT Hawk
66 Cruiser
SDC Member since 1983

barnlark
11-13-2009, 02:19 PM
I get about two or three semi-damaged copies per year. None warranting a new one. Since '96 I have had only one that showed up with the cover only. Maybe a couple dozen really bent up over all those years. I didn't realize during that time that they could be replaced by a new one.

My usual mail carrier takes great care with them, but I have the largest box allowable...for Stude parts boxes. [^]
I receive Hemmings Classic Car in a polybag and I like the care it provides, Mimi.
Protecting them from moisture is very much appreciated in Ohio. Not sure what that will mean to our membership price, but I don't think I'm going out on a limb to suggest almost everybody treasures their TWs and certainly wouldn't complain if it came wrapped more safely. We may not all be wrapped too tightly.. but I'll sure take mine that way!

Edit: I guess I should qualify this after reading that the majority of people here have had almost zero problems. If it doesn't raise our dues, I'm in for bagging mine; I've had that many ripped issues, but I don't want my measly mail situation to dictate what the other 13,000 get.

I respect the carbon footprint concerns, but are we all ready to save a tree yet for our TW, too? The day may come when TW will only be available online, but not quite yet, please.

Since it seems some people have more problems regionally than others, perhaps an option such as a small fee for those whom desire an envelope, or a bag to protect them would work. I'd pay an extra $5 for a monthly bagged version.

There doesn't seem to be many who need, or want it here, but it is a concern for some. By the time I get mine and read it, regardless of the condition, I probably won't ever ask for another copy unless one of my friend's cars are on the cover. But, I don't like any nice cover arriving ruined, either.

Mimi, may I suggest an option to receive a bag, or not, in the yearly dues letter? If only 10% want a bag, it will sure cut down on the cost to the club and make most members happy that they were even asked, rather than a blanket decision for all at a much higher cost to all. That would also cut down on the amount of bags in the world.
http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh48/newshooter44/DSCN1253_2.jpg

Chris Pile
11-13-2009, 02:23 PM
quote:A well composed letter to the Postmaster reminding them of how easy it is now days to use other media to replace their service might encourage better care and handling.

You're kidding, right?
You actually think they give a flip?

(And all Postal Employees can stand down. My dad's last wife was the local Postmaster and she told me USPS management couldn't have cared less what the public wanted. I believed her.)

Chris Pile
Editor: The Studebaker Special
http://midwaystudebakers.tripod.com/

Bellingham Studenut
11-13-2009, 02:30 PM
My last issue had the back page kinked, but only had 2-3 damaged over all the years.

For $20,000 printing some extra copies allow members to get a replacement and give their damaged ones away to new prospects, etc rather than spending it on polly bags.

Extra unwanted Turning Wheels rarely ever get tossed and continue having value in the hands of past, present and future readers (more than poly bags!). [:p]

Instead of increasing my (and everyones) member subsciption cost, I would rather buy a back copy every few years and keep everyones cost down.

I wouldn't mind an increase my subsciption if they get delivered in a Zip Van [:o)]

James

The Bell Collection
Bellingham, WA.

Dave Bates
11-13-2009, 02:36 PM
I've only had a few with minor damage in 37 years.

Dick Clemens
11-13-2009, 02:47 PM
I went to my local Post Office and requested that my T/W and Antique Review be held at the P/O for p/u. Gives the people there the opportunity to read them. Have had no torn up copies since.

studedick from the lower Ozarks

studegary
11-13-2009, 02:54 PM
During the 18 years that I was an SDC Director, this issue was brought up and studied several times. Each time, it was determined that bagging was way too expensive compared to replacing a few damaged issues.

The format of Turning Wheels is the biggest contributer to problems. I like the format. I bought a larger mailbox. This helped.

If the outer edge had two small clear tape pieces, as many mailings use, that would help.

At last count, I had 27 periodicals arriving on a regular subscription basis. The small number in poly bags seems to be decreasing.

Gary L.
Wappinger, NY

SDC member since 1968
Studebaker enthusiast much longer

ozarkman
11-13-2009, 03:03 PM
Every issue, of every magazine I get is damaged in some way....that's just part of the joy of living in a rural area in Arkansas![xx(] If I requested a replacement, it would get damaged too!![V]

From deep in the Ozarks...

Fred

http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af137/ozarklark/OzarkTtrailLogoSmall.jpg http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af137/ozarklark/StudebakersofArkansas2-1.jpg

toyman
11-13-2009, 03:16 PM
Mimi: I probably average three damaged copies per year. The rear cover and back pages are usually the damaged area. Surely a accurate/complete/truthful study of current replacement costs will yield the answer. I have never had a problem getting them replaced. The replacement always arrive in a paper envelope. Those have never been damaged. THANKS for asking for our opinions.

toyman

StudeMichael
11-13-2009, 03:23 PM
I would like to receive my copy by logging in here on the website. Problem solved.

SteveH
11-13-2009, 03:27 PM
Gotten a couple over the past 6 months, but nothing major.

Studebaker classifieds! www.studeswap.com


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/PoboyP239/IMG_2853-1.jpg

JRoberts
11-13-2009, 04:31 PM
Mimi,
I too would like to thank you for actually asking us what we think.

As far as the polybagging of our Turning Wheels issues I would say there is no need.
First I have, in about 15 years, never had one damaged enough to replace it. Second, there are enough plastic bags in our environment as it is, we don't need any more.

Despite the format of the Turning Wheels magazine being a possible reason some are damaged, I hope we don't change that format. I really like it the way it is.

Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

Anne F. Goodman
11-13-2009, 04:42 PM
Well I thought I'd weigh in. I think in the ten years that I have been receiving my Turning Wheels maybe 4 issues for the years are undamaged . More come to me damaged than not. Every one is folded in half some creased more than others. I have put a box on my front porch with a note for the postperson with no results. Even when you catch them before they stuff it into the box it is damaged. So I don't know what the answer is. At least they are still readable. Nope extra expense won't help.

Mabel 1949 Champion
Hawk 1957 Silverhawk
Gus 1958 Transtar
The Prez 1955 President State
Blu 1957 Golden Hawk
Daisy 1954 Commander Regal Coupe
Fresno,Ca
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/Mabel.jpg?t=1165475035http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/xmasannecopy.jpghttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/GusMater.jpghttp://s122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/th_DSCN17232008-01-01.jpghttp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/nw3anne/54%20Commander%20Regal%20Coupe/3539580552_f5500eb0d8-1-1.jpg

Retired
11-13-2009, 04:57 PM
Thirty Seven Years, one, m-a-y-b-e two had a corner torn, scotch tape repair.

Richard

63t-cab
11-13-2009, 05:13 PM
Other than the post office syndrome,have'nt had any problems from the start "1975" and besides they've alway been intact and viewable!,and I'm not entering them in a show.

SO NO BAGS PLEASE.

Joseph R. Zeiger

raprice
11-13-2009, 06:00 PM
Mimi,
Just to add my 2 cents, as a member of SDC for 18 years, I have never received a damaged copy of Turning Wheels. I'm not minimizing the concern of others who have had that problem, but I don't see why the club should need to resort to increasing the expense of mailing by putting each issue in a poly bag.
It would be cheaper to just replace a damaged copy, one at a time.
Rog

'59 Lark VI Regal Hardtop
Smithtown,NY
Long Island Studebaker Club

sweetolbob
11-13-2009, 07:38 PM
Mimi

Let me add my vote to say skip the polybagging.

I've been a member for more than 15 years and can only remember a cover or two with significant damage. All still had their contents. So I'm satisfied with the current method.

Thanks for asking.

Bob

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/P1000416.jpg?t=1227109182, http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/031-1.jpg?t=1254424814

jrock
11-13-2009, 07:56 PM
Since 1984 I think I might have received 2 issues with corners folded.If my count is close for those who are replying this makes about 42 damaged TWs over 25 years. That wouldn't justify $20,000 per year!

jrock

Doug M
11-13-2009, 08:32 PM
My problem is the post person always folds them sometimes creasing them. I haie a larger box that they will lay flat in. Doug M

4961Studebaker
11-13-2009, 08:37 PM
No major problems ever experienced, I would vote no for the bagging. And with the ease of asking for a replacement......not worth the extra cost. And after reading the minutes in this months issue and the budget.......might want to hold off on the extra expense.

ChopStu
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q14/kkad0711/IMG_5406-1.jpg
135 weeks till completion.

stude53
11-13-2009, 08:44 PM
Mimi,

Thanks for asking for our opinions.

As a twenty-five SDC year member, I'd say I have only had one or two arrive with any damage, and that was limited to maybe a crease in the cover pictures. During that time, I have moved to new six new addresses in three states, the last near a little rural town (where my mail goes to a small U.S. PO Box).

I feel for those whose experiences have been worse, but please don't change the size of the magazine or delivery method. I don't think a bag would solve the problem (probably just add to the cost and handling time), and the practice of replacing those who receive a mangled copy and request a replacement one is the best solution.

[img=left]http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j259/stude53/studesmall2.jpg[/img=left]Bob Feaganes (stude53)
53 Starliner Hardtop
Newton Grove, NC

Stu Chapman
11-13-2009, 09:07 PM
I receive my TW 1st class mail and we have a community mail box with individual slots. The secret is to become friendly with the mail person, in our case it's a lady, and make sure she receives a gift at Christmas. As a result she hand delivers our TW to our door and never folded. Mind you she only has to walk 50 feet to do this. BTW our November issue still hasn't shown up yet but I understand publishing was delayed because of heavier than normal content. It is unfortunate this delay had to occur when so many advertisers are counting on Christmas sales. We need to stick to the deadline dates to avoid such problems.
Stu Chapman

Sdude
11-13-2009, 09:25 PM
OK enough of the postal bashing. You can look at this thread and see that the majority of people get their magazine in good condition. As a retired postmaster, it's time for my two pennies worth.

The Postal Service is a large organization and I can attest, the majority of postal workers care very much about the service they provide to their customers. As with any large company, there certainly are a segment of knuckle heads that give everyone else a bad name.

I would suggest continuing complaints by those that experience no resolution to their problems. I used to encourage my customers to call every time they had an issue and I typically dealt with the employee in a different manner when subsequent complaints arose for the same problem. I understand how customers can think that the postmaster doesn't care when the problem continues. Maybe the postmaster just thinks it has been corrected as it should have when no further complaints are received.

I also understand that the problem could be a knuckle head postmaster.

As a postmaster, I occasionally opened media mail to be sure the reduced postage rates weren't being improperly used. That's one of the reasons it is so cheap, because it is subject to inspection. Unfortunately when we began to check, we found that many customers were abusing the reduced rate. The problem really surfaced with the expansion of e-bay packages.

I think you should look into plastic wrapping the bundles only as the process of sorting magazines by bundles is where most damage occurs. Once individual sortation begins, the handling is much gentler. Any letter carrier that folds the magazine against the binding is just an idiot. It just damages the magazine and makes his job more difficult. It's so much easier to handle the mail when it follows the natural curve. Any GOOD letter carrier can tell you that.

Jon Stalnaker
Editor, Hawk Talks
Karel Staple Chapter SDC
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3108/2848527836_6f817c03fc_t.jpg

Gary1953
11-13-2009, 09:28 PM
I've been a member since 1973. Maybe one or two issues that needed to be replaced in that time.
Not a problem to me so far. If the dues needed to raised to bag TW I'd vote no.

Last issue of the Antique Review was badly damaged. I've already ordered a new one.


http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/gsandes50/Picture008.jpg
Gary Sanders
Nixa, MO
President Toy Studebaker Collectors Club. Have an interest in Toy Studebakers? Contact me for details.

studelark
11-13-2009, 10:25 PM
I, too, have been receiving Turning Wheels since April 1973. I've never had a torn up magazine, but have on two/three occasions had slight tears from having it stuffed in a full mail box. Plastic bags will not stop that. My vote is to use the money for other important things. I have had one TW lost in transit and it was replaced with no problem.

Frank Drumheller
Louisa, VA
60S-W6
1948 M16-52 Boyer-bodied fire truck

Clem64
11-13-2009, 10:42 PM
I think that I have had one issue damaged in the last couple of years and I fixed it with scotch tape. I would rather SDC save the money and not do the bag thing.

Dean




CLEM http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/DSC01819rev-1.jpg DESEE http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/IMG_0046rev-1.jpg MISTY http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/DSC00675rev-1.jpg

Chris_Dresbach
11-13-2009, 10:53 PM
No problems at all thus far, but I do agree with an earlier post that said if the SDC must put more money into it, lets have more color issues and just replace the damaged issues. Or add a bunch of articles to the mag so it gets so thick it cant get hurt as bad.;) LOL.

Chris Dresbach

Dads Baby
11-14-2009, 03:09 AM
Mimi,

Thanks for bringing this to the forum. It was nice talking to you this week. Knowing that you have sent a new copy out to me has brought me out of my deep depression. If the bags were big enough to stuff my mail man into... [}:)] I used to have problems with bent or torn edges, but we got a larger mailbox. Problem solved. I think that the few times I have had a problem, it doesn't warrant the bag. Maybe next year I will step up to 1st class.

Thanks for all you do!

Carey
Packard Hawkhttp://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/myredyota/misc/146.gif?t=1221925054
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/myredyota/misc/DSCN0149.jpg?t=1195791215 http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/myredyota/misc/Clublogo2.jpg?t=1208147476http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m267/myredyota/misc/DSC_0046.jpg?t=1215313071

jimmijim8
11-14-2009, 06:20 AM
Happy camper here. Don't remember getting more than a couple less than perfect in 30 yrs. possibly a paper garter to prevent opening during shipment. After reading I give them away to car enthusiasts. Swap meets, car shows, cruise in's. They look new and people are very appreciative. Excellent way to promote the marque and club. Ya can't take 'em with you and I don't see any sense in my keeping. I've got the forum for anything that I can't remember. jimmijim

Stude Junkie+++++++Do it right the f$$$$ Time. Never mind. Just do it right. When youre done your done. You'll know it.

57 Classic
11-14-2009, 07:04 AM
I have been a member since 84 and the last issue was the first that required a replacement. It was totall soaked and some pages could not be separated. The post office bagged it and apologized for the condition. Wet is strange for the desert.
The issue came up numerous times while I was on the board and I still believe that it would not be money well spent. The number of spoiled copies is low.
Brian Millette

clonelark
11-14-2009, 07:24 AM
Thank you Mimi for asking the forum, i too do not think it would be worth the cost. My mail person folds mine and stuffs in in my large mail box, gives it to my neighbors and this has been the problem with mine. Only ask for a new one once since the 1980s, my neighbor probably got to read that one.

http://i37.tinypic.com/j6ppqd.jpg

Starlight
11-14-2009, 09:32 AM
Mimi...In 35+ yrars of receiving turning wheels, I, maybe, have had 3 with slightly damaged covers.....No complaints here.....Keep up the work on a GREAT MAG.....

Ricardo
11-14-2009, 12:16 PM
Dear Mimi

My TW are normally received in good condition even in farther Chile

My subscription is by the slow regular mail but even in that type of mail the paper envelope works pretty well.

Studebakerchile
http://www.tuerca.cl/studebakerchile/

tomnoller
11-14-2009, 12:58 PM
Four out of twelve issues will sustain damage by the time I get them.
I agree with Dick Steinkamp's idea of checking an option at renewal time for the bag and pay extra. As Pat Dilling suggests, the odd size may have something to do with it. I also subscribe to Auto Restorer, which I guess conforms with average catalog & magazine dimensions and it's never damaged.
Thanks for asking!

monomaniac
11-14-2009, 02:56 PM
I'm not sure why some people are mentioning non-standard dimensions.
There is nothing more standard in North America than 8 1/2 by 11 sheets of paper. TW is STANDARD in size. Collectible Automobile is non-standard.
As for format, yes our TW is horizontal rather than vertical format, which is what vehicles are in real life. It is also the same format as Automobile Quarterly.
I suspect that a person who folds TW against the grain and, even after encountering resistance, continues to fold, spindle and mutilate, probably wears his hat backwards.
We will remind readers that if you receive a damaged copy of TW, you can get a replacement copy FREE.

Art

p.s. I commend people on this forum for answering Mimi's question. We really had no idea how widespread the problem might be and your answers help us to form a valid opinion.

m5pickup
11-14-2009, 03:09 PM
Thank you for asking the Forum, Mimi.

I have had only one issue arrived damaged. I received only the cover with all inside pages missing. That issue was replaced promptly when I reported the loss.

I am not in favor of the added cost of bagging all issues for all subscribers, but I agree that a "pay extra" option for those members who desire the extra service may be a solution if it proves to be practical.

Regards-
John Stine
46 M5 Pickup

Milaca
11-14-2009, 03:33 PM
I'm not disputing the fact that 8-1/2 x 11 is standard paper size. The fact is that typical magazines are put into a mailbox top or bottom first, and folding them narrower does not kink the binding being that the binding is not at the top or bottom. However a copy of TW is put into a mailbox side first, and folding it narrower kinks the binding. This problem could be alleviated by using the largest available mailbox for rural customers. I have a regular sized mailbox (6 inches wide) and the mailman lays it in at a diagonal and I therefor seldom have any binding kink damage. The other advantage to typical magazines, being that there binding is on the long edge of the pages, is that they have more physical support and therefor are less prone to being floppy. Being floppy may make TW more susceptible to having pages folded or bent when moved about by the postal service. I like the format as it is and am not suggesting that it be changed, I'm just pointing out some areas that could potentially be changed to avoid damage to the copies that are received by members who often receive TW copies damaged. :)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3473/3939471781_afa477b3ae_t.jpg
Brent's rootbeer racer.
MN iron ore...it does your body good.

GEEMAC
11-14-2009, 03:41 PM
A couple slighty torn corners in nigh on to 20 years, i would say were good to keep on going.Mac

bams50
11-14-2009, 04:46 PM
You are correct, Brent. People seem to assume that any damage is always caused by carriers, which I suppose is the easiest thing. But most don't think about processing equipment.

FSMs (Flat Sorting Machines) sort flats (magazines and large envelopes) like letters- hundreds per minute. The spines of regular magazines run parallel to the conveyor. When a horizontally-oriented magazine comes along the feed wheels on FSMs see them as under-height and over-width. When flats are whizzing through literally in a blur, this causes potential problems. Now add in the fact that flats may go through this a half-dozen times or more between dispatch and delivery. The newest FSMs are better equipped to handle this, but it's not going to be perfect. They're great at handling "open-ended" mailpieces like magazines, but adding in the orientation is obviously going to increase the risk of damage somewhat.

Even then, the percentage of damaged/destroyed pieces is extremely small. This is not much consolation when we are a victim, but based on sheer statistics I would agree with almost everyone here that bagging would definitely not be a worthwhile endeavour. Also, I do not think it's necessary to actually change the orientation of TW; although the fact remains that there will likely be the occasionally damaged issue.

One more point of correction- contrary to what a few might think, postal employees DO care about what happens to our customers' mail. Occasionally as few as a handful of letters for a given office will be inadvertantly missent to the wrong office. The procedure upon discovering this is to immediately call the main plant and report it, then the correct office. If that office has the personnel, they are required to drive out and hand-deliver that mail to it's correct destination. If no one is available the plant sends someone from there to pick it up and deliver it. The carriers at the correct office are required to wait for it to arrive so it can still be sorted and delivered that day, without delay. This is done soon enough that carriers have it in time to make their regular leave times, without being late. This is just one boring-but-true example of how the P.O. is working hard every day to do the best job possible.

Naturally it's not perfect; and frankly speaking, the most problems are from the old-school union freaks, and they are dwindling in number. Most of us work as a team and are constantly hustling and looking for ways to improve- and are proud of it. To make a blanket assumption based on one obvious malcontent that "nobody gives a flip" is not only offensive- it's completely wrong.:)

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.patrioticon.org/images/flag1-1.gif
[b]GOD BLESS AMERICA

go-studebaker
11-14-2009, 05:54 PM
Hi Mimi,
having lived in 4 countries in the world and having recived Turning wheels in 3 of them, it has never worried me if TW arrives damaged or not. I am just interested to keep up with what is happening.

I do know that some people like their TW mint, but I am not one of them. My 19 month old daughter Eilish enjoys looking at car pictures in TW and the ASC rags and enjoys doing what little people do with the pages as any 19 month old should be.

Should you bag or not? Keep your money and replace the occasional TW for those who want them, as that is probably a wole lot cheaper and probably a lot more environmentally friendly than using plastic bags. Even the supermarket these days encouraging people to re-use shopping bags.

Regards
Greg

Greg Diffen
Australian Stude nut living in Warwick, United Kingdom

1933 St Regis Brougham Model 56 Dutch delivered
1937 Dicator sedan. Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Packard Seven Passenger monster UK delivered
1939 Commander Sedan Australian Body by TJ Richards
1939 Commander Swiss Cabriolet by Lagenthal
1961 Hawk
1963 Daytona Hardtop
1988 Avanti Convertible

s2d63lark
11-15-2009, 09:20 PM
quote:Originally posted by Sdude


I think you should look into plastic wrapping the bundles only as the process of sorting magazines by bundles is where most damage occurs. Once individual sortation begins, the handling is much gentler. Any letter carrier that folds the magazine against the binding is just an idiot. It just damages the magazine and makes his job more difficult. It's so much easier to handle the mail when it follows the natural curve. Any GOOD letter carrier can tell you that.

Jon Stalnaker
Editor, Hawk Talks
Karel Staple Chapter SDC
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3108/2848527836_6f817c03fc_t.jpg

As a former printing plant employee, I would agree with Jon. I'm not sure what the US regulations are but for us in Canada, anything we print and mail through the USPS had to go in poly wrapped bundles. The individual magazines or catalogs don't have to be wrapped but the entire bundle must be as well as strapped. We (RBW Graphics) did all sorts of mailing to the US, Canada and overseas with different "wrappings" for each as part of an entire "Printing package" with the common denominator being poly wrapped bundles. BTW, 10 cents a bag seems a bit steep (based on 156,000 issues per year assuming the membership number of 13,000 mentioned earlier is correct).

I don't recall any of my TW's arriving damaged in the 30 odd years I've been receiving them. Certainly the envelopes used for Canadian mailing recently help a lot as does having a large mailbox for the Rural Route carrier to fill. Individual bags are not necessary.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm160/lakado/006.jpg 6E40-195 http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm160/lakado/The%20Green%20Hornet/Lark.jpg 1963 Canadian Lark VY-6 http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm160/lakado/DeLuxe%20Scotsman/02-1.jpg 4E2 Deluxe Scotsman

Chatsworth, Ontario, Canada

StudeDave57
11-15-2009, 09:50 PM
I may as well chime in here as well. (sorry to take so long, Mimi~ busy busy busy)
I've been an SDC member since the mid- '80s, and I've gotten more then a dozen mangled Turning Wheels. But then again~ 20 years of my life I was on active duty in the US NAVY, and the magizines were going to all ends of the Earth. I'm certain that had nothing to do with it at all. ;) [:0] [:o)]

Usually the damage was a torn or folded over cover~ Sometimes missing pieces of same. Even during those few years I got my TW First Class- I managed to get a mangled TW or two~ somehow, someway!!! [:0] [B)] [V] Getting a replacement was never a problem.
I doubt that a poly bag would've helped. Some of my other magazines used them, and even in their 'normal' format- those would get mangled too from time to time!!!

I would be against a dues increase to cover the cost of poly bags.



StudeDave '57 [8D]
GO NAVY~ BEAT ARMY

mimi
11-16-2009, 11:21 AM
Wow- you guys are terrific! Thank you so much for all of your input and ideas. It seems like it isn't a huge problem, just occasionally, expecially for those of you hiding out in the back country.
You sure are tough on the Old P.O.!
I have received some of the best stories from this. It seems our P.O. carriers enjoy reading TW before we get it. Some have donut crumbs in their issues, others with coffee stains. Isn't it great?
Thanks again for letting me know your thoughts. I will let the Board know them and we will proceed to make a decision on this.
Mimi

raoul5788
11-16-2009, 12:24 PM
Let me add my .02 here. Bams50 is correct about how the PO handles magazines. By and large, the magazines are delivered without issue. I know mine have been, but then again, I delivered my own mail for 18 years! ;) Also, Bob is correct about the letters, too. I would only say that the supervisors' motives are not quite as sincere as he presents them. In order to receive their bonuses, they must make sure all of the 1st class mail is delivered every day, regardless of the cost or number of leftover pieces. Sometimes that means a supervisor going out and hand delivering one letter! It's not exactly cost efficient, but it gets the job done. The carriers and clerks really do care, it's management that has the ulterior motives.


Chip
'63 Cruiser daily driver
'57 Packard wagon on the road!

Avantidon
11-16-2009, 01:43 PM
Mim

All of my magazines go to my PO Box which at time s is over flowing. I find that if a TW is damaged it is because the clerk forced it into an alreay full box. Poly wrapping a monthly magazine is expensive and does not mean it will not cbecome damaged goods when shoved into tmy box which is nnext to the largest the PO has. Don't spend the money as it can be utilized better elsewhere.

Lark Hunter
11-16-2009, 03:43 PM
It looks as though I may be a little late for my comments to count, but I will add my $1.02 anyway. Close to fifty percent of my Turning Wheels arrive moderately to severely damaged. About half of that percentage is due to the issue being crammed into my standard size rural mailbox in all different manner. The other half appear to have suffered
a quick trip through a chipper/shredder. One thing I have noticed is the material the covers are made out of does not take much of a bend before it partially tears and becomes
very weak where it has creased. A couple more bends, and the piece breaks off. Reading other responses reveals that only a few of us (at least on the forum) are experiencing frequent damage to our TW. I think an envelope (as well as a larger mailbox) would offer greater protection in my case. The poly bag may offer better protection for those who receive damp issues. May I humbly suggest a no charge bagging or envelope option for the very small number of us that habitually recieve our issues in poor condition? Thanks LH

Straight from the horse's mouthhttp://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/characters/character0109.gif

Dick S.
11-18-2009, 08:49 PM
I agree with those who asked that the magazine be published in the format of normal magazine (ie tall, not wide). Only once or twice in ten years has an issue been severely damaged, but the main damage occurs when the mailman folds it at the spine. This wouldn't happen if he could fold it like a regular magazine.

Thanks for asking our opinions, Mimi!

All the best,
Dick Shurson

2R5
11-18-2009, 09:11 PM
I've had no problem with damage over the years but I will complain that my Nov issue hasn't arrived yet and November is in its dying days ....there is no excuse for that [}:)]



[IMG]http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/2R5/smallchamp-1.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/2R5/2008Daytona.jpg
Home of the Fried Green Tomato
"IF YOU WANT THE SMILES YOU NEED TO DO THE MILES "

1960 Champ
1964 Daytona HT
1966 Daytona SS

Mark57
11-18-2009, 09:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by 2R5
my Nov issue hasn't arrived yet and November is in its dying days ....



S'OK Bob - I'm in the same boat.:(

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island Chapter
http://visdc.shawwebspace.ca/ </h5>

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/zonemt1a.jpg

2R5
11-19-2009, 12:37 PM
Mark , I do think there is a problem this month , I know of no one that has got their Nov issue north of the border , except maybe Art ;)



[IMG]http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/2R5/smallchamp-1.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/2R5/2008Daytona.jpg
Home of the Fried Green Tomato
"IF YOU WANT THE SMILES YOU NEED TO DO THE MILES "

1960 Champ
1964 Daytona HT
1966 Daytona SS

monomaniac
11-19-2009, 01:10 PM
I don't have my copy yet (11/19 a.m.) but many around here do.

I posted a month ago that the November issue could easily be up to 2 weeks late so judge your own by that.

Art

2R5
11-19-2009, 01:26 PM
Art ! Glad we caught your attention .
Don't get me wrong , I'm not trying to be disrespectful but how is it that some can get there TW 3 weeks before most ???
Don't tell me that is 1st class mail either , I would presume that all TWs are printed at the same time and mail isn't that slow.



[IMG]http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/2R5/smallchamp-1.jpghttp://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l300/2R5/2008Daytona.jpg
Home of the Fried Green Tomato
"IF YOU WANT THE SMILES YOU NEED TO DO THE MILES "

1960 Champ
1964 Daytona HT
1966 Daytona SS

51bullet
11-19-2009, 06:55 PM
No problems up here in Canada, but even in the envelopes marked" dont bend" the post office still does! Still waiting for Novembers issue, is everyone else , or did mine just get lost in the mail?

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh148/1951bullet/Greer_nbsp_51_nbsp_Studebaker-0009.jpg

51bullet
11-19-2009, 06:56 PM
No problems up here in Canada, but even in the envelopes marked" dont bend" the post office still does! Still waiting for Novembers issue, is everyone else , or did mine just get lost in the mail?

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh148/1951bullet/Greer_nbsp_51_nbsp_Studebaker-0009.jpg

monomaniac
11-19-2009, 08:28 PM
Quote: ". . .how is it that some can get there TW 3 weeks before most ???"

I cannot answer for mail service. You will have to ask the post office.

ddub
12-22-2009, 02:53 AM
My January, 2010, issue just arrived (first class) in a poly bag instead of the usual white envelope and for the first time in a very long time it arrived damaged.:( So much for the poly bags.

Don Wilson
53 Commander Hardtop
64 Champ 1/2 ton
Centralia, WA

StudeRich
12-22-2009, 03:14 AM
quote:Originally posted by ddub

/Cut/My Dec., 2009 issue just arrived (first class)in a poly bag
/Cut/

Look again Don, I think you will find it's the Jan. 2010 Issue already! [:0]

StudeRich

jallen
12-22-2009, 04:31 AM
I would like to vote for the poly bag extra cost option as well.
There was a time when my TW would arrive undamaged, but recently
its been shredded or soaked, or both. The poly bag option would
be worth trying, and worth paying for IMHO.

Invalid User Name
12-22-2009, 05:26 AM
Since 1992 I have had 2 damaged. One was the postal zip van cover that someone in the post office took, I'm sure.


Doug
Venice, Florida
1950 Champion
9G F1
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m15/w4jdz/Stu-1.jpg

Jim B PEI
12-22-2009, 07:11 AM
I'll echo the comments of the other Canadian members--TW in the paper envelope arrives in generally perfect condition. Perhaps investigating extending delivery in paper envelopes (instead poly bags) to the US as well? At least paper envelopes are recyclable, first as doodle paper, then grocery lists, then into the green bin. What would be the cost compared to poly?

Jim B on PEI
63 259 o/d Wagonaire
57 Champion W4 o/d
57 Champion W4 automatic

Bo Markham
12-22-2009, 09:51 AM
I've only received one copy that was damaged since 1980. Having the post office lose them is another story! For the last several years I have paid the first class rate. This seems to have solved the loose issue.

Great idea, but if your going to spend the clubs money to sleeve everybody's TW then the first class rate should be adjusted to reflect this rank and file membership benefit. Of course the bottom line is "somebody has to pay for these membership benefits". So, are we talking about a membership due increase to cover the additional costs, or what? As I recall from reading the minutes of the last board of directors meeting, the club treasurer reported that the 2010 budget was in deficit?

It would seem to me that during these times of declining membership, budget deficits and proposed deficit spending, our board of directors should be spending their time trying to find ways to save money and increase the membership roles. Not spend, spend, spend. Deficit spending isn't the answer to maintaining a healthy viable club. They should take a clue from the national scene.

Bo Markham
12-22-2009, 10:07 AM
Just received the January issue in a poly bag. Definitely didn't provide any additional protection. Covers were scared. Aside from possible water damage, I think the paper sleeves do a better job of protecting them. Besides that, the use of poly bags isn't every environmentally friendly. These poly bags will still be in the land fills long after the last Hawk has rusted away.

ddub
12-22-2009, 07:22 PM
Studerich, right, it was JANUARY, I had it wrong in two posts, don't know where my head was:D. At any rate the poly bag issue was the first I have had with damage. The white envelopes may be more protective.

Don Wilson
53 Commander Hardtop
64 Champ 1/2 ton
Centralia, WA

Kurt
12-23-2009, 07:43 AM
I have been a member since 1992 and can only remember a few that were damaged. None were to the point of being unreadable. I have probably had more problems with them not showing up at all than being torn up. A plastic bag won't help the ones that disappear.

66 Commander R1 Clone
51 Commander 4dr