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studeclunker
01-21-2007, 06:33 PM
The '56 wagon has a Hill Holder. I'm not familliar with the operation of this worthy device. The way I understand it, when one has the clutch in, depress the brake hard and it locks all four wheels.[?] To release just depress the clutch[?] Or should I depress the clutch and brake again[?] I'm, hopefully, just a day or so away from this car being on the road again(YAY).:D

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/studebaby/54wagonblue-2.jpg
Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

John Kirchhoff
01-21-2007, 07:21 PM
The hill holder is located in the brake line just past the master cylinder and has an orfice on each end so the brake fluid can pass through. Inside is a ball surrounded by a sliding cage which is connected to a shaft which in turn is connected to the clutch pedal. When the clutch is out, the cage keeps the ball centered and fluid can pass around it in either direction. When you depress the clutch, the linkage brings the cage toward the inlet end of the device. If you're car's pointing up hill, the ball rolls back against the inlet orfice. When you depress the brake pedal, fluid pushes the ball away from the opening and flows past, activating the brakes. When you let up on the brake pedal while the clutch in depressed, the ball prevents the fluid from flowing back into the master cylinder and thus keeps the brakes applied. When you let up (engage)the clutch, the attached linkage moves the cage away from the inlet orfice taking the ball with it which in turn allows the fluid to return to the master cylinder, disengaging the brakes. The hill holder doesn't function when the car is pointing downhill because the ball rolls forward and away from the orfice even with the clutch depressed. But when you're pointing downhill, you don't need three feet to operate the gas, clutch and brake when taking off, only when pointing up hill.

If you've applied the brakes when pointing uphill, the brakes will remain engaged as long as the clutch pedal is depressed. If you let up on it, the brakes disengage. So you either leave the car in gear with the clutch down, or if the stop light is a long one, keep the brake depressed while you shift into neutral and release the clutch. As soon as you derress the clutch to put the car in gear, you can let up on the brake and you won't roll back. If you do roll backwards with the clutch down or the brakes are still applied when the car is trying to move forward, the linkage on the hill holder needs to be adjusted.

53k
01-22-2007, 09:39 AM
quote:Originally posted by John Kirchhoff

The hill holder is located in the brake line just past the master cylinder and has an orfice on each end so the brake fluid can pass through. Inside is a ball surrounded by a sliding cage which is connected to a shaft which in turn is connected to the clutch pedal. When the clutch is out, the cage keeps the ball centered and fluid can pass around it in either direction. When you depress the clutch, the linkage brings the cage toward the inlet end of the device. If you're car's pointing up hill, the ball rolls back against the inlet orfice. When you depress the brake pedal, fluid pushes the ball away from the opening and flows past, activating the brakes. When you let up on the brake pedal while the clutch in depressed, the ball prevents the fluid from flowing back into the master cylinder and thus keeps the brakes applied. When you let up (engage)the clutch, the attached linkage moves the cage away from the inlet orfice taking the ball with it which in turn allows the fluid to return to the master cylinder, disengaging the brakes. The hill holder doesn't function when the car is pointing downhill because the ball rolls forward and away from the orfice even with the clutch depressed. But when you're pointing downhill, you don't need three feet to operate the gas, clutch and brake when taking off, only when pointing up hill.

If you've applied the brakes when pointing uphill, the brakes will remain engaged as long as the clutch pedal is depressed. If you let up on it, the brakes disengage. So you either leave the car in gear with the clutch down, or if the stop light is a long one, keep the brake depressed while you shift into neutral and release the clutch. As soon as you derress the clutch to put the car in gear, you can let up on the brake and you won't roll back. If you do roll backwards with the clutch down or the brakes are still applied when the car is trying to move forward, the linkage on the hill holder needs to be adjusted.


Great explanation! I just want to add a couple things. First, if your car has been disassembled, your Hill Holder may not work correctly without linkage adjustment. There is a rod that runs from the clutch linkage. See your shop manual for specifics about your car. Second, the HH may not work if the car has been sitting for a long time. They get gummed up to where the ball can't seat properly to cut off the brake fluid return. The unit is serviceable with installation of a repair kit. They can be hard to get apart though. It is best to take it off and hold it in a good vise. And, when you put it all together, be sure to bleed the HH first or you will never get all the air out of the brakes. The bleeder valve can be hard to find (on top of the HH).
Good luck. It is a great device.



[img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/R-4.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64L.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64P.jpg[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/53K.jpg[/img=right]Paul Johnson
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine

Rob
01-22-2007, 05:18 PM
On my 51` Commander I can hear the ball move and the lever moves freely. The car has been sitting for quite a while, do I need to replace any seals or anything or do I just need to flush with alcohol.







Rob

John Kirchhoff
01-22-2007, 08:40 PM
Mine set for 17 years and the seal still holds. I guess if you have to remove the unit for some other reason, it would be a good time to replace the seal. On mine I had to cut a hole in the floor to get to the bleed screw and even then I had to use an impact driver to loosen it. Funny though, on two different occasions I had the master cylinder off and neither time did I get any air to come out when I bled the hill holder. I can't say yours will act the same way, but at least I had peace of mind by bleeding it.

Rob
01-22-2007, 08:52 PM
I`ve got mine off. I have everything off of mine, I restoring from the frame up. I will have to replace the master cylinder. The HH has brake fluid coming out of the lines, so I believe it will be ok.








Rob

fpstude
01-22-2007, 11:57 PM
For supplemental information to the above great responses, Richard Quinn, who authors the Almanac section of Turning Wheels, wrote a fantastic article in the Nov/Dec 2006 issue of The Antique Studebaker Review. Managing the Roll Back A Brief History. If you have access to the Review, check it out. If not, our club reproduced the article in our local newsletter (with premission). I can email a pdf file of our December issue. Request by sending me an email.


Perry
'23 Special Six,
'50 Business Champ,
'50 Starlight Champ,
'60 Lark droptop,
'63 GT

whacker
01-23-2007, 12:17 AM
Always replace the bleed screw with either a hex head or an allen head screw when you have the unit out. It is near impossible to bleed the unit with the stock screw after it is in the car. #6-32 X 3/4, I think. I prefer the hex head, but I've used the allen head and it works also.

studeclunker
01-23-2007, 04:00 AM
Wow![:0] All this great information!:D I may be living like the proverbial 'hermit on the mountaintop, but I still have friends! Thank you all for your kind responses.

Perry, thanks anyway, but I can't read PDF files. Neither Acrobat or Adobe work on my machine.

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Lotsa Larks!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

53k
01-23-2007, 03:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by whacker

Always replace the bleed screw with either a hex head or an allen head screw when you have the unit out. It is near impossible to bleed the unit with the stock screw after it is in the car. #6-32 X 3/4, I think. I prefer the hex head, but I've used the allen head and it works also.


On my '64 Daytona I had to unbolt the HH mounting and drop it down a couple inches to get at the bleed valve. There was enough give in the lines to allow that.


[img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/R-4.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64L.JPG[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/64P.jpg[/img=right][img=right]http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/53K.jpg[/img=right]Paul Johnson
'53 Commander Starliner (since 1966)
'64 Daytona Wagonaire (original owner)
'64 Daytona Convertible (2006)
Museum R-4 engine