PDA

View Full Version : rear end 1949 commander



hotrodstude
10-15-2009, 10:45 AM
how much trouble is it to swap in a later model rear end in the 3-passenger biz coupe??? dana or ford 8 or 9 inch will work???has a banjo rear now.spicer or dana???

2006,f-150,2x4,v-6,5-speed manual,8ft bed, will post stude info when i get it on the road.

rickhmn
10-15-2009, 12:09 PM
I put a Ford 8.8 from an explorer in my 62 lark. The width was almost perfect and it was easy to put in. Offset was to the same side and close to the same as my Dana The Ford 8.8 is a copy of the chevy 12 bolt and if you get the explorer rear it has 31 spline axles. 95 and up is disc brake. I paid 200 for a good axle with all the rear sway bar stuff. 3.73 gears and posi. drum brakes.

buddymander
10-15-2009, 12:18 PM
Was the explorer the same width? Did you move the springpads? I hear a lot about rear end swaps but few details. Also, which u-bolts and springplates did you use?

ST2DE5
10-15-2009, 12:39 PM
That Lark rearend is a lot wider than a 1949 Bus. coupe.


7G-Q1 49 2R12 10G-F5 56B-D4 56B-F2

brngarage
10-15-2009, 05:14 PM
For what it's worth, a friend of mine has a '51 Champion Starlight coupe which is powered by a 289 Ford engine (and C4 transmission). He has a '73 Comet rear end in it (he bought the car this way). If it will help, I'll gladly measure the distance between spring perches (and any other dimensions that might be helpful).


Howard
53 Commander Starliner
56 Sky Hawk

Edited for spelling.

hotrodstude
10-15-2009, 07:37 PM
yes that would be great,thanks alot. the comet rear a 8 inch????

2006,f-150,2x4,v-6,5-speed manual,8ft bed, will post stude info when i get it on the road.

brngarage
10-16-2009, 01:01 AM
I'll try to get what info I can this weekend and post it as soon as I find out.

Howard
53 Commander Starliner
56 Sky Hawk

rickhmn
10-16-2009, 08:29 AM
on my 8.8 swap the explorer rear was about 1/2" wider than the lark rear. Yes the spring pads had to be moved in about 1 1/2" on each side. Getting my tires out that 1/4" on a side helped the look. I used preches from a local spring shop. They sell them for trailers etc. The leaves were the same width from the explorer to the lark so I was able to use the explorer u bolts and plates. The whole deal is not rocket science. Just slide the rear under and make sure it's centered by measuring of a frame point, measure twice and weld once. On pinion angle just google it and read a couple articles and its pretty easy to figure out. I stressed about it some till I looked at the angles that some of the lifted trucks run!! Once pinion angle was set I doubled checked the centering and then tacked it on each corner of the perch and took it out to weld. Whole deal was done in four or five hours over a couple of days. My car has not yet been on the road but I have had some good assistance and advice from a friend who is a pro builder along the way. He checked it out and thought it all looked really good. Unless you are looking at really low horsepower or want to rebuild the axle I'd steer clear of the ford 8. The Ranger has a narrower 8.8 and the astro uses the same one. They are 28 spline axle unless you find a ranger FX4 but it's still way stronger than an 8. Bigger brakes too.

tim87114
10-19-2009, 07:03 PM
Posted - 12/01/2008 : 2:41:45 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FROM MY PREVIOUS POST. NOTE: This is on a 1949 Champion.
FYI,
I have found that the mid 90's ford explorers Axle with rear disc brakes will bolt up to the Champion. It too is underhung as the stude.
The rear leaf perches are at 39.5" on center. The width is 1.75 wider than the stock stude axle but you can make that up in backspacing, but you don't have to.
NOTE: The emergency brake cable connection is different. You can loop your cable around the ford hook and use a simple Cable clamp to secure, or you can buy a Jeep to ford axle swap kit which will give you the correct ends. As you would expect the u-joint is different so modifications will be needed. The pinion is offset 2.75 inches which is 2" further than the stude. however because the length of the driveline, this does not pose any issues. I have not checked the measurements of the Drum brake style axle for the wheel flange to flange measurements.

tim87114
10-19-2009, 07:06 PM
Also, what is your plan on the front? Isn't your car a 4 lug? Are you going to just re-drill your stude hubs to 5 lug or are you going to use Mustang hubs? The V8 Mustangs from the 60's used the same type of setup as the champion/commander with the drum held on by the studs pressed through the hub. Basically any mustang conversion, like granada ect will go onto the studebaker spindle.

I discovered this last weekend while working on a neighbors 67 v8 drums. I put my studebaker hub right onto the mustang spindle. The bearing ID's are the same but the OD's are different. Also the Mustang bearing area is slightly shorter by about a 1/2" This just means that you would put the mustang hub on and use a thicker castle nut to make up that difference. Or you could put granada rotor ect on. Personally I'm partial to the whole hub thing because I don't like having to repack bearings when I'm changing Rotors, but then again at least you know you have new grease every so often [}:)]

buddymander
10-20-2009, 01:24 PM
I've been wondering which disc brake rotor will bolt on to the studebaker spindle. I was thinking about designing a kit to adapt ball joints to the studebaker lower aframe and changing the upper to something adjustable to get to ball joints plus disc brakes in one fell swoop.

hotrodstude
10-20-2009, 05:18 PM
SORRY ITS A COMMANDER.245/3-speed

2006,f-150,2x4,v-6,5-speed manual,8ft bed, will post stude info when i get it on the road.

brngarage
10-20-2009, 06:23 PM
Sorry it took so long, but I wasn't able to contact my friend with the Comet rear assembly in the '51 Champion Starlight until yesterday. He measured last night and told me the distance between the inside edges of the rear leaves is 38". He sent me some pictures. If anyone would like to see the pictures, please email me off forum.



Howard
53 Commander Starliner
56 Sky Hawk

tim87114
10-21-2009, 07:21 PM
For Buddy.
Yea, me too. I've got a set of AFCO arms and was considering grafting them as well. But actually I too thought about simply cutting the end of the stock lower a-arm off then welding on a flat plate to bolt a lower balljoint to. This is common on new cars. The upper arm can be easily made as well.

I pulled out some Dirt Track Racing arms I had laying around which use the ford upper ball joint and it would fit right into that spot. So I'm going to take some measurements and hit the U-pullit to take some measurements off some vehicles to see what if any will have the width and length of the stock upper arm. The lower I agree can be modified.

tim87114
10-21-2009, 07:36 PM
Buddy,

From a front disc brake standpoint. On the 4 lug car, I converted to disc all the way around by using a Kia spectra front rotors and saturn rear rotors. Both hubs were re-drilled. But now that I know the Mustang Hub will fit that opens up the door for bolt on 5 lug.

I was sticking with the 4 lug because the Scion XB stock wheels are steel and 15x7 so they would look near stock once the hub cap tabs are welded to the wheels. I would also get disc brakes front and rear. I have the rear brackets completed and only need to cut out the front brackets and weld on a slight offset of 3/4" for the mounting location.

Here is the rear with saturn rotor and caliper: Notice it's e-brake bracket is a simple connect for the stock stude cable. Basically the caliper bracket takes place of the bearing keeper plate shown in the picture.

http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww281/tim87114/PIC-0339.jpg

Here is the front rotor mocked up. Now that I have the hub re-drilled and studs installed, I need to update the photo. Note this is a 10.5" rotor, but the inside Hat area is very large and the Kia was the only one I could find that would fit in a 4 lug car.
http://i728.photobucket.com/albums/ww281/tim87114/PIC-0345.jpg

rickhmn
10-22-2009, 02:26 PM
Tim 87114
do you know if the offset was different on your rear than mine (a dana 27 from a 62 lark)?
I measured the offset to be within a half inch or so. I do agree that over the length of the diveshaft it's not going to matter anyway. When you had a drieshaft made did you keep the stock flange on the ford rear or switch to a yoke? Thanks for the Jeep conversion tip. I wondered what I was going to do with the e brake.

tim87114
10-22-2009, 03:13 PM
I decided against the conversion on my 49. Ya it must be different on the 62 for sure. I have a hard time finding seals outside of buying from the stude suppliers, mine is a spicer model 23 axle.

tim87114
10-23-2009, 01:08 PM
Hotrodstude and any other with a pre 50>

Ok I found some very interesting information yesterday. I found out that there is a trailer hub, that will fit right on the 47-49 spindle with the same bearing ID and legth as ours. Scroll down to line item 11 and 12. I just need to measure the seal to confirm, but I'm sure the inner seal is different. The trailer hub shows an ID of 1.5 or 1.6. I think the champion is 1.313" If so either a different seal or a seal spacer could be slipped on the spindle. This would be an easy way to convert to five lug for the front. Does anyone know if the 5 lug drum hub will fit on the 4 lug spindle?
http://www.championtrailers.com/hubs.html#painted_hubs

ST2DE5
10-23-2009, 01:34 PM
Trailer hubs will not take side stress. If you turn a corner and hit a pot hole it will brake. The metal is to porous. It is made for down force only.


7G-Q1 49 2R12 10G-F5 56B-D4 56B-F2

hotrodstude
10-23-2009, 03:51 PM
width is not important to apoint.i'm going to use firebird fender flares(1970-1981 f-body)cut out the sheet metal ariund the wheel well.using L60x15 fiberglass wide ovals on the rear on 8x15 chrome reverse so not worried about outter clearance.usely anything i do can be undone if i need to return to stock.the rear fenders bolt on right???thank for the info,i learned a lot.also are the front spindles strong enough to handle 7x15 chrome reverse wheels with g60x15's????so it looks like i need to relocate any axle mounting location???one last thing is it better to mount the axle above or under the leaf springs????

2006,f-150,2x4,v-6,5-speed manual,8ft bed, will post stude info when i get it on the road.

buddymander
10-23-2009, 05:02 PM
ST2DE5--can you substantiate that please? I've never heard of it and I load my trailer way over the max. And I do go around corners on occasion.. Hey--my compliments to all of the creative brake and hub interchange going on here--I don't get to see this type of creative thinking very often and it's impressive over the top. Tim--I think the reason stude aframes crack is because of the stresses placed on them by adjusting the trunnions for max positive caster. Ball joints would alleviate this problem. I'm thinking a plate welded to the lower to accommadate a bolt on ball joint because changing the lower is more complicated than the top since the lower has the spring pocket. The top needs to be adjustable, so it has to go. My search is for a spindle with its upper aframe; both ball joints and brakes. As long as it fits the outer tie rod, then the adapted parts will be the lower ball joint and upper aframe mount.

ST2DE5
10-23-2009, 05:55 PM
Your trailer will never have much side force. Your car makes a turn and all the force of the car is leaning to the wheel that turns. A trailer basically slides side ways when a turn not much side force. I have machined both. The trailer hub just makes dust when machining and the car hub will make small chips much harder. I just wouldn't want some bodys Studebaker having a wreck and maybe a serious accident.


7G-Q1 49 2R12 10G-F5 56B-D4 56B-F2

tim87114
10-26-2009, 11:33 AM
buddy,
Good point on the A-frame. Just to be sure we are on the same page. I have the planar suspension. Are you thinking of keeping that? I don't think it would be that hard to fab up Tubular lower a-arms then remove the Leaf pocket and weld it onto the tubular arm. At the rear of the arm I think the cross shaft is what would be complicated, although the cost of just those parts isn't really that expensive in the long hall. So keeping the stock cross shaft and parts with a new arm would be easy to design in. I also agree the upper isn't really an issue.

I just finished swapping out my frame this weekend so I'm getting started back up on the car.

ST2De5, That is good information as I wasn't aware that a trailer hub may contain different material. Definately something to look into before going off and doing.

1962larksedan
10-26-2009, 09:15 PM
quote:Originally posted by buddymander

I've been wondering which disc brake rotor will bolt on to the studebaker spindle. I was thinking about designing a kit to adapt ball joints to the studebaker lower aframe and changing the upper to something adjustable to get to ball joints plus disc brakes in one fell swoop.


Does't Phantom of somebody similar sell a bolt on set of upper/lower control arms with balljoints that use the stock mtg points on any 1951-85 Stude/Avanti frame?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Borrowed Bams50's sigline here:

"Do they all not, by mere virtue of having survived as relics of a bygone era, amass a level of respect perhaps not accorded to them when they were new?"

tim87114
10-27-2009, 05:49 PM
Phantom the interior supplier?