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preacher
10-14-2009, 10:26 AM
I just tried to install a 283 Chevy in my 1962 Lark. The motor mounts would not line up. The mounts liked about 1-2 inches fitting (the motor would not go down far enough for the mounts to bolt up). The mounts on the motor are Chevy and the ones on the frame are from Studebaber International for a chevy to stude swap. Do I have to cut the oil pan? find another oil pan? or what? I looked at Dicks pictures but could not see the mounts clearly. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Randy Jetton

gordr
10-14-2009, 10:41 AM
Your description is a little vague. Pictures might help.

Gord Richmond, within Weasel range of the Alberta Badlands

preacher
10-14-2009, 10:47 AM
I don,t have pictures but let me try again. When I try to align the motor with the mounts the motor sits on the front crossmember and will not go down low enough to allow the mounts to line up. The motor is riding on the crossmember. I need to find some way to either raise the motor or cut the oil pan.

Randy Jetton

Dick Steinkamp
10-14-2009, 11:06 AM
A '62 may be different than my '63.

Here's a few close ups of my '63. Everything kind of dusty here, but you get the idea.


Left (driver's) side...

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/mounts011.jpg


Right (passenger's) side...

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/mounts007.jpg

Frame mounts are actual cast iron mounts from a '65-66 V8 Stude.

Engine mounts are 60's Chevy mounts from NAPA. Part #602-1054


Do you have the frame mounts in the right set of holes?

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/63%20Daytona%20done/PP026-1.jpg

fred k.
10-14-2009, 11:12 AM
I put a small chev in my 62 lark and I used frame supports from a 65-66 stude engine mounts from a 65 nova and made my own trans crossmember, I did have trouble with the bell crank hitting the front of oil pan so I pulled the bellcrank and reshaped it with a grinder, This after talking to a stude parts supplyer from turnning wheels and he insured me he had the correct part only to recive the same part I already had.

fred

sweetolbob
10-14-2009, 11:37 AM
Dick's setup sure looks my 83 Avanti which I believe has a lark frame.

I think posted pictures are needed.

As far as the oil pan, It looks like the six qt Milidon pan,that came with the engine, will fit mine. Looks the same in front as the stock pan.

Bob

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/P1000416.jpg?t=1227109182, http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/031-1.jpg?t=1254424814

fred k.
10-14-2009, 01:38 PM
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/jakreider/101_0402.jpghttp://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t116/jakreider/101_0401.jpgHere are photos of what I did, maby there are other solutions but this is what worked for me quickly and without taking things apart and sourcing more parts that may or may not work.

fred

rickhmn
10-14-2009, 02:38 PM
I am only speculating but maybe it's a case of having the wrong oil pan. You could measure the frame to engine mounts and make sure they are 16 1/8" apart and that would give you a prety good indication that they are right. I used reproduction mounts from Stude Intl. There are some different thiknesses in pads on the mounts as I found out later but I went to a mount with a thinner pad than what I initially had and still had no clearnace problems with the pan. You don't have the mounts pointing down do you? It seems to me that when I was putting them on I noted that they would fit ethier way. The mounts need to point up and to the center
like so / \. Very odd, mine went in so easy it was funny.

sweetolbob
10-14-2009, 04:24 PM
Fred

Hopefully here are the measurements you need as my 83 Avanti is field stripped in anticipation of the engine/tranny removal tomorrow.

The forward portion of the pan above the big pin that the arm swings on is 3 1/2" deep and the pin has about 1/2" of clearance.

The portion of the arm that the tie rod ends join has a pan depth of 4 1/2" deep and clearance of 2".

It sure looks like a standard SBC pan. If you don't have those measurements than just buy any aftermarket pan.

If you have the correct pan it's motor mounts. Please post a picture of the mounts if they are the problem and I'll bet you get a fast answer.

Bob

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/P1000416.jpg?t=1227109182, http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/031-1.jpg?t=1254424814

fred k.
10-14-2009, 04:40 PM
It may be the pan as it is the pan that came on the crate engine I ordered but the bell crank is thick enough and it was not hitting by more than a 1/8" that the easy soulition was to take what I needed out of the bell crank with my grinder, It wasnt that hard and I had the car up and running quickly without waiting on parts. Note: also the interferance was toward the front by the counter weight of the crank and with that said I am not sure that I could have solved the problem by changing the pan.

fred

preacher
10-15-2009, 10:32 AM
Thanks guys for the input. The picture that Dick sent is exactly what I have. I suspect that my oil pan is the problem. I measured the front of the pan and it measured 41/2 inches. From what you are telling me that is way too deep. I will look for a pan that is not so deep in the front. Any suggestions?

Randy Jetton

rickhmn
10-15-2009, 01:03 PM
I think the pan you have is a truck pan. they had more oil in heavy duty applications for better oil cooling. A pan from any car should work. My pan matches the 3 1/2 - 4 1/2 depths.

sweetolbob
10-15-2009, 04:20 PM
Preacher

Any wrecking yard can supply a truck load of the standard pans. Personally, I go to my FLAPS or Summit or Jegs and get a Moroso pan for any conventional SBC. It'll be new, clean and look good. Price are very reasonable for these type of parts. It's the beauty of the SBC. Parts are almost available at the Dollar Stores, that's what makes them cheap. EDIT - Summit has oil pans starting at $22.

Bob

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/P1000416.jpg?t=1227109182, http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/031-1.jpg?t=1254424814

benaslopoke
10-15-2009, 04:39 PM
Recalling some hindsight from my years at GM, the crate engines(pt.# 10067353 I believe) had a van oil pan I believe and was different from others at where it bolted to the block.. I sold alot of these engines that came with a pan that was unlike some of the others if swapped.. Check the pan gasket before going too far..

Ben

benaslopoke
10-15-2009, 04:46 PM
Preacher !! CHECK THAT GASKET BEFORE YOU BUY ANYBODY'S PAN !!

fred k.
10-15-2009, 06:17 PM
I did not get my engine from gm, it is a blueprint motor they sale through jeggs , summit ect. And I personaly got mine at a local speed shop and the pan fits most of the chev intemidate cars nova chevelle ect. I absulity would not change the pan unless I had no doubt in my mind that the pan I was about to install came from a stude with a chev motor, Thair are other obsticals you could run into in doing so such as oil the pick up tube if you do it like I said it"s done with no money out layed and you will not ever have this problem agin.

fred

Dick Steinkamp
10-15-2009, 07:33 PM
Here is a Chevy pan I had kicking around. It is from a relatively new small block....

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/cl016-1.jpg

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/cl015-1.jpg

It measures about 3 1/2 inches at the front (shallow) part.


Here is the pan on the Chevy in my '63 (sorry about the poor quality picture)...

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/cl017-1.jpg

It measures about 3 1/2" at the front. I thing it is off of a 60's Chevy. I have had a 70's pan on this engine in this installation and it fit the same (it was dented so I replaced it with the current one).

I'm not an expert, but I would think that even a pan with more capacity would be the same in the front. The front is NOT part of the sump and does not add to the capacity of the pan.

The only exception I can think of is perhaps a 400 cubic inch small block. They may be taller at the front due to the longer stroke (but I doubt it).

I also don't believe a '65-66 Chevybaker pan was any shorter in the front. It really couldn't be or the crank would hit it.



Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/stude-2-1.jpg

sweetolbob
10-15-2009, 07:57 PM
Dick

Good summary on the front of the pan. My new SBC has a six quart pan and the dimensions of the front section are the same as the one on the 83 Avanti.

As Fred said, the only thing to worry about is the depth of the rear of the pan to the oil pump. IIRC, that's just an adjustment of the line to the pump.

Bob

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/P1000416.jpg?t=1227109182, http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/031-1.jpg?t=1254424814

ChampTrucking
10-15-2009, 09:38 PM
My 61 Lark has a 4oo CI mouse with a Summit stock replacement pan with no issues of clearance.I had a 350 out of a 79 Impala in it before and had to dimple the front of the pan a bit to make it clear the bell crank.I used a block of wood and a BFH. Try and use the one piece blue neoprene(?) Fell Pro pan gasket.It is sweet!

fred k.
10-15-2009, 10:35 PM
My photo in the post is misleading I am better at working on stuff than I am at posting photos sorry, Any how my pan measures about the same as Dicks and the motor is mounted the same as his, But I do not have the same amount between the bell crank and the pan but it dose not interfere were I was having trouble was at a max left turn the bellcrank arm that connects to the steering box would hit the pan so I ground the top of the arm at angle so as not to weeken it and now it works great. dose any body know if the hard top frame is differant.

fred

preacher
10-17-2009, 07:01 PM
Thanks for all the help and the pics. Come to find out my oil pan was a front sump. I have sense located a rear sump that is exactly what I needed. Any advice on what distributor to use? I want a pointless one. How about one off of a 1970s?

Randy Jetton

sweetolbob
10-17-2009, 07:27 PM
Don't fool around with an old distributor.

Buy an MSD Street Ready HEI, all it needs is one wire and vacuum. A quality unit built by a known firm. Under $200. I paid about $179 for the one going into my 83 Avanti.

Killer simple.

Bob

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/P1000416.jpg?t=1227109182, http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh263/sweetolbob/031-1.jpg?t=1254424814

Dick Steinkamp
10-17-2009, 07:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by preacher

Thanks for all the help and the pics. Come to find out my oil pan was a front sump. I have sense located a rear sump that is exactly what I needed. Any advice on what distributor to use? I want a pointless one. How about one off of a 1970s?




Front sump Chevy pan. That's a new one on me. I wonder how that is done with the distributor/oil pump drive in the back? Any idea what it is off of? When you pull the pan, post some pics of the oil pump set up.

Bob's right about the disty, but if you are a CASO and can find a good stock HEI, they are hard to beat for the price.

EDIT...is it a DUAL SUMP pan like this?...

http://image.chevyhiperformance.com/f/9588597+w750+st0/p109854_image_large.jpg

They are pretty rare. I think only early Chevy II's.







Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/stude-2-1.jpg

fred k.
10-17-2009, 09:16 PM
I have one and it is from a 64 v8 nova.

fred

preacher
10-18-2009, 08:19 AM
The engine was supposed to be out of a 1963 Chevy Impala. The oil pump is in the rear of the engine with the oil screen/pick up tube running to the front of the engine. The tube was about ten inches long. If I can get a chance I will have my wife take some picts and post them I have no idea how to do that, sorry.

Randy

Randy Jetton

N8N
10-18-2009, 08:37 AM
Randy,

sounds like you just need to get a new pan and matching pickup and you'll be all set then.

Not even worth buying used when a new one is available for under $25

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G3500P/

pickup for Melling pump $7

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MEL-55-S2/

Don't forget a gasket, you can get nice steel core rubber gaskets for chevy engines which are much nicer than the multi piece cork things and are reusable at least a couple times. (ask when you order, because there's differences in the front of the pan that require a thick/thin gasket. Also make sure the dipstick position of the pan you order matches your block.)

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Dick Steinkamp
10-18-2009, 11:19 AM
quote:Originally posted by preacher

The engine was supposed to be out of a 1963 Chevy Impala. The oil pump is in the rear of the engine with the oil screen/pick up tube running to the front of the engine. The tube was about ten inches long. If I can get a chance I will have my wife take some picts and post them I have no idea how to do that, sorry.



'63 Impalas had a standard rear sump pan. '63 NOVAS would have that dual sump pan I pictured.

If you can, post the stamped engine numbers. They are on the front/right of surface of the block that the right head mates to. I should be able to cross those numbers to the year and model.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

http://i706.photobucket.com/albums/ww63/dstnkmp/stude-2-1.jpg

ChampTrucking
10-18-2009, 01:07 PM
Randy.In my past experience it is easier to install a new oil pump pickup into a new oil pump rather that getting oily from elbow to fingertip installing a pickup into a used pump. Take the new oil pump pickup and put it in a sealable plasitc bag.and toss into your freezer for 24 hrs or so and it will be easier to press into the oil pump. You can also gently heat up the pump in your outside BBQ grill. Not so hot you cant touch it,but just warm enough to expand it a bit.Then use a open end wrench that just fits over pickup tube, but won't fit over the bottoming nub on pickup tube and tap with a hammer to drive new tube in the pump.Summit also sells a pickup tube with a welded on brace that properly spaces the screen up off the oil pan floor.A new pump is cheap insurance and might increase some oil pressure a small amount if the gears inside are worn a lot.

rickhmn
10-19-2009, 04:25 PM
A front sump pan would mess things up all right. I'd agree that a stock chev unit is hard to beat for the price on the dizzy. Don't buy one of the offbrand 100 dollar units, they are terrible!! Under about 6000 the stock GM unit will be fine. Check for excessive end play and any back and forth play in the gear. Any unit with vacum advance and just two electric terminals will work good. There were a few with vac advance and electronic control so make sure it's not one of those. Those were early 80's. just one wire for the ignition, super easy!