4 wheel disc brake conversion

[rusty nut garage]

Is anyone running the Turner 4 wheel disc brake conversion??
If so I'd like to bend your ear via a phone call or email.
Thanks
Russ


Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
53 2R6 289 5SpdOD (driver)
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

[bige]

I have it on my Avanti. Cell is 201-738-0851.

There was a lengthy thread on the subject

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30431

but don't hesitate to call.

Ernie R


Best so far 15.065 @ 91.84 MPH Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Summer 2009.

[rusty nut garage]

Thanks for the archived post that helps tremendously.
I've got a customers 53 coupe running the Turner 4 wheel disc, no power brakes running a 1inch bore drum/drum master cylinder MC #56193. The brakes have to be pumped if the car sets for a few days and even when pumped the pedal is low and spongy. I'll check into the adjustment of the rear GM calipers and the mc compatibility. Most everyone recommends the disc/disc mc for this setup, but the turner kit doesn't have issue with running the disc/drum setup.
I've checked the pressure at the MC its #1000psi. If I plug either front or rear I have a nice pedal feel.
I'll keep working at it and let you know, thanks again for the help.
Russ

quote:Originally posted by bige

I have it on my Avanti. Cell is 201-738-0851.

There was a lengthy thread on the subject

http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=30431

but don't hesitate to call.

Ernie R


Best so far 15.065 @ 91.84 MPH Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Summer 2009.

Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
53 2R6 289 5SpdOD (driver)
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

[rusty nut garage]

Well this thing is officially kicking my butt!
Changed the mc to the recommended Mitsubishi type. Fits real neat and if your interested in running a remote fill this is the master cylinder to use. Its a 1" bore originally used for 4 wheel disc, so fluid volume should be sufficient. I've bleed this thing so many ways I need brake fluid in a 55 gal drum I'm still experiencing pedal all the way to the floor that will eventually pump up but still too close to the floor for my liking. If I fully close the rear proportioning valve I have good hard pedal. If I close off the front by clamping the front hoses or capping the master cylinder I get good firm pedal, (same symptoms I had prior to working on the car but even lower pedal then before. I would be tempted to try a 1 1/8" cylinder but plenty of folks are running the 1" without problems. Not sure where to go from here, I've got a pressure bleeder but I'll have to have an adapter made to fit the remote cylinder in order to use it.
Anybody have any good ideas or practical experience let me know.
Prior to the master cylinder replacement I did find that the GM rear calipers were'nt adjusting correctly, I was hoping that would help but no [xx(]
Russ
(no profit in this job)
[quote]Originally posted by rusty nut garage

Thanks for the archived post that helps tremendously.
I've got a customers 53 coupe running the Turner 4 wheel disc, no power brakes running a 1inch bore drum/drum master cylinder MC #56193. The brakes have to be pumped if the car sets for a few days and even when pumped the pedal is low and spongy. I'll check into the adjustment of the rear GM calipers and the mc compatibility. Most everyone recommends the disc/disc mc for this setup, but the turner kit doesn't have issue with running the disc/drum setup.
I've checked the pressure at the MC its #1000psi. If I plug either front or rear I have a nice pedal feel.
I'll keep working at it and let you know, thanks again for the help.
Russ


Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
53 2R6 289 5SpdOD (driver)
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

[41 Frank]

Do you have residual pressure valves installed in the system?

[bige]

Get rid of the prop valve. I couldn't get a pedal with the valve installed. Every car is different but my avanti stops straight from 90 with no valve.


Best so far 15.065 @ 91.84 MPH Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Summer 2009.

[rusty nut garage]

Yes car has residual 2# valves installed.
Why having a prop valve installed would be causing low pedal makes no sense, but I'm at wits end. I'll try this when I get home tonight.
I have a couple extra residual valves I may try to swap too. Things are past making sense on this project so I'll try anything
Thx
Russ

quote:Originally posted by bige

Get rid of the prop valve. I couldn't get a pedal with the valve installed. Every car is different but my avanti stops straight from 90 with no valve.


Best so far 15.065 @ 91.84 MPH Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Summer 2009.

Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
53 2R6 289 5SpdOD (driver)
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

[bige]

Do you need the residual valves because the master is below the calipers?

The problem I had with the adj. valve was that it imited pressure to the rear calipers to 600 even wide open. I stopped trying to figure out why when I got things working without it.

The other thing I noticed was that the pedal felt better on the road than on the jackstands. Once I got it to whre I believed the car would stop I was anxiuos to drive it because the brake job was part of an axle conversion, rear end rebuild and transmission mod. I had so many things I needed to check that I was OK with a short test drive with a spongy pedal. Once I was on the road the brakes felt nice and all I had to do was adjust the emergency brake cable. Been driving it that way since and a couple of 1/4 passes confirmed the stopping power.

Good luck!

ErnieR


Best so far 15.065 @ 91.84 MPH Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Summer 2009.

[rusty nut garage]

Master cylinder is mounted in the stock configuration on the frame.
The pedal on initial actuation goes to the floor. If you pump it the pedal will get firm but only 2in from the floor. If I block off either front or rear I get a good firm pedal feel much like a stock manual brake car. It's sure looking like a fluid volume issue to me, but I hesitate to go that route because this MC is the recommended for this conversion. It acts like air in the lines but I sure don't know how that could be, and the fact that either circuit isolated will cause a good pedal would indicate air in both circuits?. Its got me baffled!

quote:Originally posted by bige

Do you need the residual valves because the master is below the calipers?

The problem I had with the adj. valve was that it imited pressure to the rear calipers to 600 even wide open. I stopped trying to figure out why when I got things working without it.

The other thing I noticed was that the pedal felt better on the road than on the jackstands. Once I got it to whre I believed the car would stop I was anxiuos to drive it because the brake job was part of an axle conversion, rear end rebuild and transmission mod. I had so many things I needed to check that I was OK with a short test drive with a spongy pedal. Once I was on the road the brakes felt nice and all I had to do was adjust the emergency brake cable. Been driving it that way since and a couple of 1/4 passes confirmed the stopping power.

Good luck!

ErnieR


Best so far 15.065 @ 91.84 MPH Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Summer 2009.

Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
53 2R6 289 5SpdOD (driver)
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

[Carl Purdy]

I had one here similar to that come to find out the wheel cylinders were on the wrong side. Jut a thought.


7G-Q1 49 2R12 10G-F5 56B-D4 56B-F2

[bige]

I adjusted the rear calipers up as tightly as I could. Do you have the e brake cables on and adjusted? I'm not familiar with the car you' re working on but how about the pushrod length to the mc?


Best so far 15.065 @ 91.84 MPH Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Summer 2009.

[rusty nut garage]

E-brake is adjusted and working, when I received the car from the owner the e-brake wasn't adjusted correctly. That gained us a little bit of pedal with the initial master cylinder. The problem all along has been if the car sits for any period, day or more the pedal had to be pumped to get it back to normal. Normal in this case was a low pedal in my opinion. However I may have to live with this lower then normal pedal with this disc/disc upgrade I just don't have any first hand experience on the conversion to know.If it didn' have the extreme low pedal on initial actuation I could live with the lower but firm pedal
. Owner had been driving it this way for a couple of years. He reported that it always stopped well.
He is getting ready to take the car into the body shop for some touch up work and is concerned the body shop employees might jump in and not test the brakes. they'll go to move the car and not knowing they'll run into something. He spoke to Turner and at this point he suggested the Mitsubishi mc.
The owner commented that we initially put the upgraded 4 wheel disc that he had great difficulty in getting the mc push rod adjusted. I've adjusted the push rod "loose" so I wouldn't have a drag problem. I'll try adjusting it out and "sneak" up on getting and see if that helps.
Thanks for the help, Last few night I've been ready to "tap out" this thing has me kicked
Russ

quote:Originally posted by bige

I adjusted the rear calipers up as tightly as I could. Do you have the e brake cables on and adjusted? I'm not familiar with the car you' re working on but how about the pushrod length to the mc?


Best so far 15.065 @ 91.84 MPH Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Summer 2009.

Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
53 2R6 289 5SpdOD (driver)
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

[winchesterhawk]

Really check the calipers for any loss of fluid.Ive had calipers that once the car sat overnight would seep enough to allow air in the system. Replace calipers, problem gone.

[bige]

Saw this on the Master Power Brake site...http://www.mpbrakes.com/uploads/documents/lowdrag.pdf

You never know?

Good info on their site if you haven't visited there.


Best so far 15.065 @ 91.84 MPH Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Summer 2009.

[rusty nut garage]

Man you may have just made my whole day. this is exactly what is happening
Now just to figure out how I can get calipers that aren't low drag

How do you physically check if your calipers are low drag?
To check if your caliper is low drag perform the following test. Obtain a pair of brake hose clamps at an auto
parts store. Try the pedal as it is and then clamp off the two front hoses. If the pedal returns and is high and firm
chances are you have low drag calipers. Be aware that this same sympton will occur if there is still air in the caliper
or the bleeder screw that lets the air out during bleeding is not directly on top in the 12:00 position facing up.

quote:Originally posted by bige

Saw this on the Master Power Brake site...http://www.mpbrakes.com/uploads/documents/lowdrag.pdf

You never know?

Good info on their site if you haven't visited there.


Best so far 15.065 @ 91.84 MPH Island Dragway Great Meadows NJ Summer 2009.

Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
53 2R6 289 5SpdOD (driver)
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)