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jnfweber
09-20-2009, 03:51 PM
Should all Studebaker Avanti's have a surge tank? I have a 1963 R-2, R4212A and a 1964 R-1, R5212B. The '63 has the black fiberglass tank which works great, and the '64 has a Mickey Mouse (sort of) arrangement with a "T" joint with a radiator cap, hose from engine to "T" and hose from "T" to radiator, with a plastic overflow hose going to a plastic overflow container mounted on the right front of engine compartment. This does not work as well and often overflows at high rpm's. (I don't have a thermostat as it used to overheat in hot weather). This must imply that the heavy duty water pump is great. What's the answer? Thanks.
Jack in Montana

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3509/3938739112_f8e8670f62_s.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2644/3938738142_b0862e05ef_s.jpg

Gunslinger
09-20-2009, 04:48 PM
In a word...yes. All Studebaker Avantis came with a surge tank.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

DEEPNHOCK
09-20-2009, 05:15 PM
Put the thermostat back in.
It provides a restriction to slow the flow of coolant.
Coolant going through too fast does not soak up enough heat.
If you insist on not running a thermostat, just take the works out of your old one, but put the disc back in.
But... a slow warmup can cause condensation problems in your oil.

Question.
Did you remove all the block plugs and rod out the rearmost cooling passages?

HTIH
Jeff[8D]

wcarroll@outrageous.net
09-20-2009, 05:35 PM
I don't think that tank is fiberglass -I think they are copper or brass?

SI sells a kit similar to what you described that replaces the surge tank and that's likely what's been done to yours.

http://community.webshots.com/user/s2dbaker?vhost=community

jnfweber
09-20-2009, 05:58 PM
quote:Originally posted by Gunslinger

In a word...yes. All Studebaker Avantis came with a surge tank.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

Read more closely, look more closely. O.K. to be a gunslinger, but look carefully at target before you shoot. Larger photos attached.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3938380933_108a9d28be_m.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2517/3938375343_edb67780c5_m.jpg

Yes, I know all Avanti's have surge tanks, but some are different than others. Thanks for looking. And to answer the other question raised by DEEPNHOCK, as you can see, the engine's never been touched, and it may well be full of crud. Aren't all old Studebaker blocks full of crud in that location? Yes, and I probably will eventually replace the thermostat. Do you know where I could get a round tuit?

Should all Studebaker Avanti's have a surge tank? I have a 1963 R-2, R4212A and a 1964 R-1, R5212B. The '63 has the black fiberglass tank which works great, and the '64 has a Mickey Mouse (sort of) arrangement with a "T" joint with a radiator cap, hose from engine to "T" and hose from "T" to radiator, with a plastic overflow hose going to a plastic overflow container mounted on the right front of engine compartment. This does not work as well and often overflows at high rpm's. (I don't have a thermostat as it used to overheat in hot weather). This must imply that the heavy duty water pump is great. What's the answer? Thanks.
Jack in Montana

Jack in Montana

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2655/3929344720_e7394136ee_m.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2470/3928561331_f424396fab.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3489/3928561353_c4664768c6_o.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3513/3929344782_9096654180_o.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3501/3928561375_d0190be0ea.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2620/3939051288_206475de93.jpg

64Avanti
09-20-2009, 06:07 PM
The tank in the left picture is made of brass and is the part that came with all Studebaker Avanti's. The T with the radiator cap did not come with Studebaker Avanti's but a part like that is used on Avanti II's.

David L

tluz
09-20-2009, 08:04 PM
This is a great thread. My Avanti (dismembered at the moment but in the rebuilding stage) has the T with the radiator cap. It looks just like the photo on the right. Based on David's comments I deduce that some prior owner went with an Avanti II setup. However, there was also a translucent reservoir tucked into the right front corner of the engine compartment that my photos and notes show to have been connected to the cooling system. So, two questions: is the T setup an adequate substitute, and does anybody know what this translucent container is?

Thanks,

Tom

Bob Langer
09-20-2009, 08:35 PM
The translucent bottle is a coolant recovery bottle.It is included with the surge tank eliminator kit that Studebaker Internatioal sells, or you can buy just the overflow kit. I have one on my Avanti but still retain the surge tank.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/100_0154.jpg

Bob Langer
Glenshaw,PA

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/cropped-1.jpg
63R-2809 R-2
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/009.jpg
R-4137 R-1

fmarshall
09-20-2009, 08:51 PM
Hey Bob,

Is the surge tank there for decoration? Or are both functional? And if so, why?

BTW, great engine compartment!!

========================
63 Avanti R2, 4-Speed, 3.73 TT
Martinez, CA
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd211/fmarshall_bucket/sigpic.jpg

tluz
09-20-2009, 09:12 PM
Thanks, Bob.

Bob Langer
09-20-2009, 09:29 PM
quote:Originally posted by fmarshall

Hey Bob,

Is the surge tank there for decoration? Or are both functional? And if so, why?

BTW, great engine compartment!!


The surge tank works. When the coolant gets hot and expands, the bottle catches any coolant that would go to the ground thru the over flow hose on the surge tank. As it cools it is returned to the surge tank.

Thanks for the compliment.

Bob Langer
Glenshaw,PA

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/cropped-1.jpg
63R-2809 R-2
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/009.jpg
R-4137 R-1

Gunslinger
09-20-2009, 10:24 PM
quote:Originally posted by jnfweber


quote:Originally posted by Gunslinger

In a word...yes. All Studebaker Avantis came with a surge tank.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

Read more closely, look more closely. O.K. to be a gunslinger, but look carefully at target before you shoot. Larger photos attached.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2634/3938380933_108a9d28be_m.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2517/3938375343_edb67780c5_m.jpg

Yes, I know all Avanti's have surge tanks, but some are different than others. Thanks for looking. And to answer the other question raised by DEEPNHOCK, as you can see, the engine's never been touched, and it may well be full of crud. Aren't all old Studebaker blocks full of crud in that location? Yes, and I probably will eventually replace the thermostat. Do you know where I could get a round tuit?

Should all Studebaker Avanti's have a surge tank? I have a 1963 R-2, R4212A and a 1964 R-1, R5212B. The '63 has the black fiberglass tank which works great, and the '64 has a Mickey Mouse (sort of) arrangement with a "T" joint with a radiator cap, hose from engine to "T" and hose from "T" to radiator, with a plastic overflow hose going to a plastic overflow container mounted on the right front of engine compartment. This does not work as well and often overflows at high rpm's. (I don't have a thermostat as it used to overheat in hot weather). This must imply that the heavy duty water pump is great. What's the answer? Thanks.
Jack in Montana

Jack in Montana

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2655/3929344720_e7394136ee_m.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2470/3928561331_f424396fab.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3489/3928561353_c4664768c6_o.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3513/3929344782_9096654180_o.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3501/3928561375_d0190be0ea.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2620/3939051288_206475de93.jpg




As I said...all [u]Studebaker</u> Avanti's came with the surge tank...actually, it's an expansion tank, but the words gets used interchangeably. It's brass and painted black, not fiberglass. If a [u]Studebaker</u> Avanti has the "T" joint...it didn't come from the factory that way. It's aftermarket, pure and simple. Avanti Motors started using that type of system in the early 1970's. From 1965 through 1970 at least, they used modified expansion tanks from the Stude built Avanti's.




Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

jnfweber
09-21-2009, 01:03 AM
quote:Originally posted by wcarroll@outrageous.net

I don't think that tank is fiberglass -I think they are copper or brass?

SI sells a kit similar to what you described that replaces the surge tank and that's likely what's been done to yours.

http://community.webshots.com/user/s2dbaker?vhost=community
You are absolutely right, it is metal and painted with a black ripple paint. Also shown that way in the shop manual.

jnfweber
09-21-2009, 01:07 AM
quote:Originally posted by Bob Langer


The translucent bottle is a coolant recovery bottle.It is included with the surge tank eliminator kit that Studebaker Internatioal sells, or you can buy just the overflow kit. I have one on my Avanti but still retain the surge tank.

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/100_0154.jpg

Bob Langer
Glenshaw,PA

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/cropped-1.jpg
63R-2809 R-2
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/009.jpg
R-4137 R-1


Absolutely beautiful photo and engine! Where does the hose from brass expansion tank to overflow tank run? You must have made an extra fitting on the brass tank.

64Avanti
09-21-2009, 01:09 AM
If you had the space you would have a surge/expansion tank with an air space of about 10% of the coolant volume. This would provide pleanty of expansion space when the coolant was hot without the need for an overflow tank.

David L

jnfweber
09-21-2009, 01:15 AM
quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

Put the thermostat back in.
It provides a restriction to slow the flow of coolant.
Coolant going through too fast does not soak up enough heat.
If you insist on not running a thermostat, just take the works out of your old one, but put the disc back in.
But... a slow warmup can cause condensation problems in your oil.

Question.
Did you remove all the block plugs and rod out the rearmost cooling passages?

HTIH
Jeff[8D]
Thanks for the good advice. The way it is rigged with the "T" fitting it is easy to put an 180 degree thermostat back, I even have a new gasket. Have had no overheating problems in Montana. It usually cooler than southern California and no traffic jams on the interstate. I have never pulled the block plugs. That will have to wait for the first rebuild, or maybe until I put a lift and floor drain and steam cleaner in my garage.

Jack in Montana

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2655/3929344720_e7394136ee_m.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2470/3928561331_f424396fab.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3489/3928561353_c4664768c6_o.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3513/3929344782_9096654180_o.jpghttp://farm4.static.flickr.com/3501/3928561375_d0190be0ea.jpghttp://farm3.static.flickr.com/2620/3939051288_206475de93.jpg

Bob Langer
09-21-2009, 12:25 PM
quote:Originally posted by jnfweber

[quote] Where does the hose from brass expansion tank to overflow tank run? You must have made an extra fitting on the brass tank.


I used the existing fitting on the tank. The factory overflow hose was attached to the timing gear cover with a small clamp. Any coolant overflow went on the ground. I ran a new hose to the bottle to catch the overflow.

Bob Langer
Glenshaw,PA

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/cropped-1.jpg
63R-2809 R-2
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff143/regnalbob/009.jpg
R-4137 R-1