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**Dick Steinkamp** · 08-07-2009, 04:29 PM

quote:Originally posted by 289stude
Why were the stude V8's Sooo large on the outside and so small on the inside.

Old school technology. It wasn't until the '55 SBC that manufacturers went to thin wall castings. Stude was not able to develop a modern V8 due to lack of money.

I think Biggs has built one pushing 320 CID.

The Stude V8 IS dimensionally about the same as a 454 Chevy (and weighs about the same too).

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

**289stude** · 08-07-2009, 04:33 PM

Hey Dick, when I bought Bud the old man said the motor was hopped up, I guess he use to work on a nascar cre. when i asked him what it was punched out to he said "Studebaker 312" does that math add up? It was originally a 259 I would like to know what to tell people when they ask, but the only thing i have to go by is that the guy who built it said its a 312.

John

63' R1 Wagonaire

63' 8E45 Detroit

53' 2R5 R1 Powershift TT Under Construction

57' Transtar 304 NP540 4:09 TT Under Construction (in Picture)

58' 3E6D Stock

59' 4E2 122 Scotsman Deluxe V8 4spd curb side fender

61' 6E7 122 Factory Auto

**Tom Bredehoft** · 08-07-2009, 04:39 PM

Educate me here. Are all V8 engines 60 deg Vees or are some 90 degrees? I'm of the (undocumented) opinion that Studebakers are 90 deg and chevy & ford are 60 deg. This would make their blocks narrower.

[img=left]http://www.alink.com/personal/tbredehoft/Avatar1.jpg[/img=left]
Tom Bredehoft
'53 Commander Coupe (since 1959)
'55 President (6H Y6) State Sedan
(Under Construction 617 hrs.)
'05 Legacy Ltd Wagon
All Indiana built cars

**lstude** · 08-07-2009, 04:48 PM

Tom Covington has built a 330 Studebaker engine.

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http://racingstudebakers.com/stl-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=748

Leonard Shepherd

http://leonardshepherd.com/

**hotrodstude** · 08-07-2009, 05:07 PM

most all v-8 made in the usa are 90 degree blocks some of the v-6's are 60 degrees. the ford 171(2800)and2600 are 60 degrees.i think cheevy made a 60 degree v-6 in the 80's do not know cheevys are not my cup of tea. the buick v-6 was 90 degree along with the ford 3.8 v-6. the early buicks were odd fire and the later buicks were even fire v-6.i built and even fire for a friend of mines grand national.

2006,f-150,2x4,v-6,5-speed manual,8ft bed, will post stude info when i get it on the road.

**PlainBrownR2** · 08-07-2009, 05:34 PM

Over on the Racing Site there is one more, and I think we all discovered the upper limit on the V8 when he did. There is the one project were the block was punched out to a 363 cid, which ended up needing to be sleeved because the water jacket was exposed. I think it was a 4 inch bore that he made on the block, but I'd love to see that engine bored and stroked

.
I've had this conversation, although briefly at SB in 2007. While on the show field one of the guys walked by asking about why the engine was so big. I think it's also somewhat attributed to the 90 degree block, which makes it look like a pretty wide engine for its size. All of the blocks are of the same construct, so they should all be a 90 degree engine. If they weren't interchangeability of parts between the engines would be somewhat more difficult, among other things. The funny thing is I got shot down before he walked on when he told me the Chevy engines were also 90 degrees, which made me think back to our 1985 Oldsmobile Cutlass with its 60 degree 235? V6. The setup of the engine in that car made it look much narrower.

[IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010531-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
[IMG=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/55%20Studebaker%20Commander%20Streetrod%20Project/P1010550-1.jpg[/IMG=left]
[IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
[IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

**Dick Steinkamp** · 08-07-2009, 05:56 PM

V8 engines need to be 90 degrees; V6 engines need to be 60 degrees in order to operate smoothly. There are some 90 degree V6 exceptions that use balance shafts, odd firing orders, and/or weird looking crankshafts (the Chevy 4.3 made from the 350 CID V8 has all three).

All GM, Chrysler and Ford V8's are 90 degrees...same as Studebaker.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

**Dick Steinkamp** · 08-07-2009, 05:57 PM

quote:Originally posted by 289stude

Hey Dick, when I bought Bud the old man said the motor was hopped up, I guess he use to work on a nascar cre. when i asked him what it was punched out to he said "Studebaker 312" does that math add up? It was originally a 259 I would like to know what to tell people when they ask, but the only thing i have to go by is that the guy who built it said its a 312.

Pull a head and measure the bore and stroke. Easy enough and the only real way you will know for sure.

EDIT: I did the math and it is unlikely. To get to 312 cubic inches from a 259 (keeping the stock crank), you'd have to bore it .3475 inches....which not only means you'd probably be deep into the water jacket, but that you would need custom made pistons.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

**candbstudebakers** · 08-07-2009, 07:58 PM

The Studebaker V-8 engine is really very big when you are 3 years old just ask my grandson Clayton, at that age he really liked being inthe garage with grandpa, now he has his own cars..Bob

Bob Peterson / C & B Studebakers

Castro Valley, CA
canbstudebakers-

]

**StudHawk60** · 08-08-2009, 02:40 AM

The engine in my 60 Hawk was originally a '64 259. It was bored .125" over, and stroked .575". Bore is now 3.6875" stroke is 3.825". After doing all the math, it comes out to 327 cu in. (actually 326.6, close enough).

**nels** · 08-08-2009, 06:23 AM

Ted and I have talked about Stude's 343 prototypes, their potential and where was thefactory headed. If you could open one of those blocks up .125 or so and stroke it 5/8, which can be done, you would be at 427. So that old big Stude still had some diplacement left in it.
As for 90 and 60 degree engines, it is all about balance. 6 cyl times 60 degrees is 360. 8 cyls times 90 degrees is 720....a multiple of 360. ie. balanced. 90 degree six cyls are inherantly out of balance but it is often done so the block can run down the same 30 million dollar transfer line as the sister V8.
As for the heavy Stude V8 block, its only disadvantage is its weight does affect handling to some degree. The advantage is that it is exceptionally rigid. That rigidity is what the thin wall engines try to retain by reducing material in places where it usually isn't needed. Of course there are times when the thin wall castings are taxed beyond their limits and patches need to be put in place such as four bolt mains and so on.
Tecknology has come a long way in sixty years but the old Stude block still has all the advantages of the new with the exception of light weight.

**Dick Steinkamp** · 08-08-2009, 07:34 AM

A .125 overbore and a 5/8 stroke gives you a 3.685 bore and a 4.25 stroke for 363 cubic inches, not 427. Still pretty big, but the long stroke, smaller bore is generally considered not a good combination for a performance engine. Stude was sort of forced to do this when they brought out the 289 since there was no reliable way to open up the bore more to keep the shorter stroke than bore combination they had with all the previous versions of the V8.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

**289stude** · 08-08-2009, 08:07 AM

I think he's talking about stroking a 343ci prototype engine to those specs will get you 427ci

John

63' R1 Wagonaire

63' 8E45 Detroit

53' 2R5 R1 Powershift TT Under Construction

57' Transtar 304 NP540 4:09 TT Under Construction (in Picture)

58' 3E6D Stock

59' 4E2 122 Scotsman Deluxe V8 4spd curb side fender

61' 6E7 122 Factory Auto

**Chicken Hawk** · 08-08-2009, 08:08 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Dick Steinkamp

A .125 overbore and a 5/8 stroke gives you a 3.685 bore and a 4.25 stroke for 363 cubic inches, not 427. Still pretty big, but the long stroke, smaller bore is generally considered not a good combination for a performance engine. Stude was sort of forced to do this when they brought out the 289 since there was no reliable way to open up the bore more to keep the shorter stroke than bore combination they had with all the previous versions of the V8.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

I think what Nels is referring to is the 342 block that has a 3.875" bore and with the 5/8" stroker making it 4.25" stroke and boring the 3.875" out .125" making it 4" bore does come out to 427.25".

This is a possibility if the 342" block can be bored .125" and according to reports, it can be. I'm not sure about the stroked crank clearing the cam but is easily checked out.

Ted

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