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View Full Version : Who Says Champ Boxes are too wide



StudeRich
08-05-2009, 03:02 PM
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/studerich/Loaded%20to%20the%20Forum/63Red8E-12.jpg

I really never thought of the Wide Bed being...well wide as a negative thing, after all that is what Real Trucks do! [^] The Bigger and Wider the Bed or Box the larger the load, the BETTER the Truck!

I always thought my '63 Champ looked very Macho, Burly, and Big Truck-like, which is what they are supposed to do! [:p]

Trucks are SUPPOSED to have wider Beds than their Cab! [}:)]
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/studerich/Loaded%20to%20the%20Forum/7E40usnBoxVan1.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/studerich/Loaded%20to%20the%20Forum/60Transtar_Dump1.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/studerich/Loaded%20to%20the%20Forum/58TranstarE40_2Ton.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/studerich/Loaded%20to%20the%20Forum/TranstarFleet1.jpg
http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa221/studerich/Loaded%20to%20the%20Forum/63Transtar1ton_c.jpg

If you recall the Champs with the Factory Flatbed or Stakebed, they also had WIDER Beds than the Cabs! [:0]

The Wheelwell shapes match much better than the old obsolete 1949 P1 bed fenders do, and and their 1940's look is just wrong for a fresh new looking, 1961 Truck! I totally agree with Bill on this 8/4 Eye Candy Post:

Love that truck!
I know people knock the wide Dodge bed, but at least the shape of the wheel opening mirrors, somewhat, the front wheel opening, and the 'crease' down the side lines up with the line on the cab. Except for width (matches perfectly!), the styling of this bed doesn't match the Dodge cab at all!
Bill Pressler Kent, OH

StudeRich

PackardV8
08-05-2009, 03:29 PM
Yer truck, yer money, but there'll always be more who still see Stude cheaped-out the widebox Champ and put an old Dodge box on it which didn't fit at all. ;)

It would have been wonderful if Brooks Stevens had been given a day's pay to design a box which followed the Champ body lines as so many trucks since then have had. Then, we'd have had a worthy successor to the long line of beautiful Stude trucks, such as the Coupe Express, M-series and the C-cab

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

Mark57
08-05-2009, 04:11 PM
My biggest knock on the P2 wide boxes is the fact they are single walled, so if you bang up the inside of the box (while using it like a real truck;)) then you have also dinged up the outside of the box as well.

<h5>[b]Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island Chapter
http://visdc.shawwebspace.ca/ </h5>

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/CandyStore1Thumb.jpg

barnlark
08-05-2009, 05:08 PM
Is that your Champ in that top picture, Rich? Beautiful, if it is..but, "after all that is what Real Trucks do! "?? [:o)]:D...I will put money that truck hasn't seen a load of gravel, 2X4s or drywall in decades! Gorgeous.

bams50
08-05-2009, 05:20 PM
I agree with Jack. Comparing big trucks with pickups is apples and oranges. Whenever I see one of those from the rear I see the homely-a** early 60s Dodges they came from[xx(]

Of course the best compromise is Steve Blake's- narrow the box 4 inches and it's almost perfect (Except that the lines still don't match the Lark cab[:I]). Still, if I get a hankering for an old pickup, a Champ would be a few lengths in front of any others;)

Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131
http://www.patrioticon.org/images/flag1-1.gif

Clem64
08-05-2009, 10:26 PM
I never had any visual problems with the P-2 wide box when I had my new Champ in 64', and I still don't with the current Champ in my garage now (Studerich's old Champ from back in the day). I know some folks don't care for the look, but to me they look just fine.

Dean Croft
Roseburg,OR

CLEM http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/Clem64Forum1A.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/CIMG1894sm.jpg DESEE

kurtruk
08-05-2009, 10:42 PM
quote:Originally posted by bams50

I see the homely-a** early 60s Dodges they came from[xx(]



Robert (Bob) Andrews- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys)
Parish, central NY 13131



Actually Dodge used the beds in 1958 to 1960.

1961 was the start of a totally new design that lasted 'till 1971.




KURTRUK
(read it backwards)


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3267/2617723594_889afb71cf_t.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2412/2267352617_720245049a_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3286/2679715309_9655c80e5e_m.jpg

StudeRich
08-05-2009, 11:25 PM
Yes Clem's '63 Champ 8E7 came from me, by way of SDC members Richard & Phillis Holcomb the former owners of the Muppet Car, and then Les Shepard the (former I think) owner of the Big Gold 8E40 U.S. Navy Heavy Duty Box Van Truck (pic above) he used for deliveries in his Studebaker Trucking Co. That former Boxwood Green (Ford Truck Color) '63 Champ of mine has quite an SDC History! [^]

You do have to remember that those were the days when all the Truck Mfg's. were playing "try to catch the Ford Truck" that had a decent wide bed since 1957! [:0] They had pioneered the styleside, sweptside, Fleetside whatever you want to call it Wide Style Box, and no one could catch them!

The General's first attempt was a big failure, the (I think) '58-'59 Apache with the round tail lights, and when they finally got a good looking truck in their second attempt to catch Ford, the '60 GMC/Chevy, they ruined it with their experimental rear coil springs which also did NOT work! [xx(]

So with all this going on, Studebaker and even International were forced to do something, and I think the Champ was a valiant attempt to build the best Truck they could with close to 0 Dollars! [^]
And it still had a bigger payload AND lower price than any Truck on the market. [:0]
Stude. Champ =2034 Lbs., IH =1360, GMC =1405, lets talk price: Stude. = $1870.60, GMC =$2093.00. That's a fair amount of change in the '60's with inflation and all. [^]

StudeRich

Mark57
08-05-2009, 11:47 PM
quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

So with all this going on, Studebaker and even International were forced to do something, and I think the Champ was a valiant attempt to build the best Truck they could with close to 0 Dollars! [^]
And it still had a bigger payload than any Truck on the market.
Stude. Champ =2034 Lbs., IH =1360, GMC =1405, lets talk price: Stude. = $1870.60, GMC =$2093.00. That's a fair amount of change in the '60's with inflation and all. [^]

StudeRich


As has been pointed out in a number of publications, the biggest challenge faced by the Champ was not the quality or price, but the name on the tailgate... just could not attract the masses of truck buyers. :(

<h5>[b]Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island Chapter
http://visdc.shawwebspace.ca/ </h5>

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/CandyStore1Thumb.jpg

62champ
08-06-2009, 08:41 AM
Here are a few pic of a relative's former 8E-112 (5 sp/OD) pickup now in the hands of Steve Blake in Amarillo, Texas.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/arkiejazz/March%206_2007/013_64NarrowedChamp.jpg

It was restored by a fellow in California. Think the hardest part would be taking apart and cutting down the tailgate...

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/arkiejazz/March%206_2007/016_64NarrowedChamp.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l68/arkiejazz/March%206_2007/017_64NarrowedChamp.jpg

<div align="left">1960 Lark 60S-W4</div id="left"> <div align="right">1962 7E7-122</div id="right">
[img=left]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/8b0ac4c6.jpg[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/DSC02237.jpg[/img=right]

studeclunker
08-06-2009, 12:07 PM
I sez Champ boxes is too wide!;)

Yes, Steve's Champ looks like how Studebaker should have done the truck. It would probably benefit from fender flares though. As the truck sits, stock, it has the apperance of a conglomeration of spare parts.

Rich, your comparison of the Champ to a Jimmy is not fair. The Champ wasn't a top-end product for one, and the Jimmy was. For a fair comparison, how about a '61 Chevy Apache? Even at that, it's not a fair comparison. The Chevy is a full sized pickup where the Champ is a compact. This is why the bed has such an incongruious look to it. It's a full-sized bed. When someone cuts the bed down to fit the cab, as was done with Steve's, it also becomes a compact size. Problem is, back in the day it wouldn't have sold as a sheet of plywood wouldn't then have fit between the wheel-wells. That was the litmus test of the day. Even with that, I think the change on the bed would have assisted sales. It would have produced a more finished looking product. Silly thing is, it's all an achedemic exercise anyway.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/december%2006/HPIM0234.jpg http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b18/Studeclunker/56%20Parkview%20Wagon/56wagonleftfrontclipped-1.jpg
Home of the famous Mr. Ed!
K.I.S.S. Keep It Simple Studebaker!
Ron Smith
Where the heck is Lewiston, CA?

StudeRich
08-06-2009, 04:31 PM
Sorry Ron; I would have to totally, respectfully disagree with you! :D

The Studebaker Truck competed in the very same market, actually the ONLY market as the other five did, the full size wide bed EIGHT FOOT 1/2 Ton Pickup Truck U.S. Market!
Champs weight close to the same, haul as much and more as the others and happen to have a more maneuverable Cab than the others that's it! [^]
These do not compare to a '68 Datsun compact truck not available in 1962. [xx(]

Any way this IS a fair comparison, it is not mine it's Studebaker's! [:0]
These numbers came from the 1962 Showroom Poster on my wall here showing how superior the new "Spaceside" 7E5 Champ 1/2 Ton is compared to the competition. As you know competitors always used the outstanding characteristics of their product to compare to others without them, but the important facts like Payload and Cost are fair, honest and correct.

The Champ Deluxe Cab is shown as way cheaper than all the others that have NO sliding Window.

The Heater is less than ALL but Dodge, it's $3.70 less!

And if you would like a Chevy comparison: the Fleetside wide box is $1987.00 and only hauls 1500 Lbs.

The 1962 GMC
Wide Box is a "Wide Side" (original huh?)
The IH is a "Bonus Load"
The Ford is a "Styleside"
The Chevy is a "Fleetside"
The Dodge is a "Sweptline"
The Champ is a "Spaceside"

StudeRich

studeken
08-06-2009, 05:21 PM
Studebaker must have gotten a helluva deal on those obsolete boxes! KP

Ken Pyle

63t-cab
08-06-2009, 05:58 PM
I gotta say the Champ wide box is just great as is! I agree with what Rich says,and I'll take it a step further.IMHO a real pickup has a 8' bed,so one can slide a peice of plywood or standard size peice of sheetrock in,shut the tailgate and go.

Joseph R. Zeiger

8E45E
08-06-2009, 06:27 PM
quote:Originally posted by 63t-cab

I gotta say the Champ wide box is just great as is! I agree with what Rich says,and I'll take it a step further.IMHO a real pickup has a 8' bed,so one can slide a peice of plywood or standard size peice of sheetrock in,shut the tailgate and go.


That is obviously the reasoning behind having that size of box, in addition to being able to accomodate universal aftermarket accessories including toppers, pipe racks, etc.

Craig

PackardV8
08-06-2009, 09:32 PM
quote:being able to accomodate universal aftermarket accessories including toppers, pipe racks, etc.

I'd have to do some research as to first appearance and sales volume, but AFAIK, this aftermarket came along much later. I remember the first aftermarket toppers and racks I ever saw and it was long after Stude had gone.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8

62champ
08-06-2009, 10:00 PM
If you have the wide bed - SASCO still has the side panels - better hurry...

http://www.studeski.com/sasco/IMG_0823.jpg

<div align="left">1960 Lark 60S-W4</div id="left"> <div align="right">1962 7E7-122</div id="right">
[img=left]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/8b0ac4c6.jpg[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/DSC02237.jpg[/img=right]

StudeRich
08-07-2009, 02:58 AM
quote:Originally posted by PackardV8

I'd have to do some research as to first appearance and sales volume, but AFAIK, this aftermarket came along much later. I remember the first aftermarket toppers and racks I ever saw and it was long after Stude had gone.

The ads I remember from Studebaker advertised their own All Aluminum skinned Conestoga Camper Shells (really more than a Shell, they had FLOORS and a removable rear panel for hauling loads with a smaller Camper door in it!) they were marketing them around '62-'64 I think.

StudeRich

Mark57
08-07-2009, 03:11 AM
quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

The ads I remember from Studebaker advertised their own All Aluminum skinned Conestoga Camper Shells (really more than a Shell, they had FLOORS and a removable rear panel for hauling loads with a smaller Camper door in it!) they were marketing them around '62-'64 I think.

StudeRich


The Conestoga Camper was an 8E series Champ option. [^]

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island Chapter
http://visdc.shawwebspace.ca/ </h5>

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/CandyStore1Thumb.jpg

kurtruk
08-07-2009, 12:53 PM
quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

Sorry Ron; I would have to totally, respectfully disagree with you! :D

These do not compare to a '68 Datsun compact truck not available in 1962.
StudeRich


Sorry, I have to disagree with you:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2452/3798684612_8a0370992f.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2531/3798684976_ef1ff2b5d3_b.jpg

They also offered in 1964 a unibody sports pickup with car -style taillights. Can anyone say "El Camiko?"

KURTRUK
(read it backwards)


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3267/2617723594_889afb71cf_t.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2412/2267352617_720245049a_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3286/2679715309_9655c80e5e_m.jpg

jeremyprice11
08-07-2009, 02:22 PM
I dont care I love my widebed. Big girls need love too :)

StudeDave57
08-07-2009, 07:27 PM
Maybe it's not that the bed is too w i d e~

maybe it is that the cab is too narrow [?] [?] [?]

Cars are like that... [:0] ;) :D [:o)] [^]



StudeDave '57 [8D]

Roscomacaw
08-08-2009, 03:08 PM
Geez, Dave - when you said that, I had a vision flash to mind of a widened Champ cab. It wouldn't be that hard to do. You'd just need a donor cab to cut a center-section from. Use a '63 grille panel - widened a bit on both sides of the grille opening. Utilize the 62-3 headlite pods and mount foglites between them and the grille opening, or just have little chromed grilled openings for Climatizer supply! That'd be cool!

1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1963 Cruiser
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President two door

JimsLeadCommander
08-09-2009, 03:18 AM
I remember when our neighbors who bought a brand new 1955 Bel-Air sedan one afternoon and later bought a blue new '57 Ford Pick-Up with Ford's new wide bed box. They used it daily and to haul stuff when ever needed. They kept that truck for years! On the other hand my in-laws were planning a trip to Alaska in 1962; they wanted to buy a pick-up and then build a custom slide in camper that would accomodate all six of them. The truck they bought was a 1960 Chevy 3/4 ton, Fleetside; the camper was built (mostly by them) and they went off on a grand journey to Alaska round-trip from Los Angeles. My bro-in-law mentioned when he was in the over-cab bed and the road curved, he wondered if the leaning over would correct itself {:=) (it did) and on a straight road the whole thing road very smoothly. They wanted the truck with the six cylinder engine and a four speed on-the-floor. That truck had those rear coil springs but, aside from riding very smoothly they had no problems with them. (I guess a sway bar would have helped). A few years later those parents bought a new Chevy pick-up and installed their custom camper for travel.

JimsLeadCommander

JimsLeadCommander
08-09-2009, 03:32 AM
Not that long ago I read somewhere (in a car magazine I think) that one of the pick-up manufacturers was going to build a pick-up with no fender intrusions in the bed/box area. How? you ask? Think of the dually's design---the outer wheels are placed outside the box. That is the answer; no dual tires back there--but the rears would be placed on wider axles and be located outside the bed/box area so, the bed/box would be very spacious. Sounded like a great idea. However, no one has built it.

JimsLeadCommander

mbstude
08-09-2009, 09:56 AM
quote:Originally posted by JimsLeadCommander

Not that long ago I read somewhere (in a car magazine I think) that one of the pick-up manufacturers was going to build a pick-up with no fender intrusions in the bed/box area. How? you ask? Think of the dually's design---the outer wheels are placed outside the box. That is the answer; no dual tires back there--but the rears would be placed on wider axles and be located outside the bed/box area so, the bed/box would be very spacious. Sounded like a great idea. However, no one has built it.

JimsLeadCommander


My '59 Studebaker truck is like that.

DEEPNHOCK
08-09-2009, 10:26 AM
My '37 box is like that....
Jeff[8D]


quote:Originally posted by JimsLeadCommander

Not that long ago I read somewhere (in a car magazine I think) that one of the pick-up manufacturers was going to build a pick-up with no fender intrusions in the bed/box area. How? you ask? Think of the dually's design---the outer wheels are placed outside the box. That is the answer; no dual tires back there--but the rears would be placed on wider axles and be located outside the bed/box area so, the bed/box would be very spacious. Sounded like a great idea. However, no one has built it.

Mark57
08-09-2009, 01:13 PM
Here you go: :)
http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/Transtar.jpg

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island Chapter
http://visdc.shawwebspace.ca/ </h5>

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x153/MarkH57/CandyStore1Thumb.jpg

JimsLeadCommander
08-09-2009, 07:14 PM
By Golly, I stand corrected~~you guys are right about your rear wheels "Outside the Box" ~~~ However, I believe the article was referring to one of the newer, 'modern' Pick-Ups with a bed width of six feet ot more with no wheel intrusions. You're right, those oldie but goodie Stude Pick-Ups could carry 4X8 sheets of plywood and many other things back there with no problem. A thought: Remember the running boards and how auto design eventually widened the cars bodies to envelope them and therefore placed more room on the INSIDE of the vehicle? So, a '00 Pick-Up with six foot wide bed front to back would be feasible if the rear axle were widened enough to place those wheels (with bulging fenders) on the outside aka dually set-up.

JimsLeadCommander

kurtruk
08-09-2009, 07:25 PM
Jim,
Do you really mean 6 ft. wide[?] That's 72 inches! That's as wide as some boxes are long. With the wheels on the outside--well let's just say I wouldn't want to meet one of those coming down a road with limited shoulders.[:0] Think how many drivers would be "shaving" those fenders off on whatever they came close to.[B)]

KURTRUK
(read it backwards)


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3267/2617723594_889afb71cf_t.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2412/2267352617_720245049a_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3286/2679715309_9655c80e5e_m.jpg

Clem64
08-09-2009, 10:41 PM
Here I think is the original P-2 box in its original home, the back end of a Dodge PU. I don't know the year but maybe late 50s early 60s? Note the tailgate shape and chains appear to be the same as a Champ.
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/IMG_0142sm.jpg

Dean Croft
Roseburg,OR

CLEM http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/Clem64Forum1A.jpg http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x56/Clem64/CIMG1894sm.jpg DESEE

billslark
08-10-2009, 12:09 AM
Yup, that would be the P2 bed. It looks as good on the Dodge as it does on the Champ.

Bill

kurtruk
08-10-2009, 08:21 PM
Without seeing the front end, that's a 58-60. Only years used in it's original home. '57 had the Sweptline (2dr station wagon rear quarters![:0][:p]). Also offered in '58, as shown below[8)]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2098/2224820170_1ee956ce01.jpg

KURTRUK
(read it backwards)


http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3267/2617723594_889afb71cf_t.jpg http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2412/2267352617_720245049a_m.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3286/2679715309_9655c80e5e_m.jpg

Steve T
08-10-2009, 10:07 PM
Hmmmm...let's see someone put that box on a Champ, eh!

S.

63t-cab
08-11-2009, 04:00 PM
Hey that P2 box does'nt match the cab body lines any much better than it does with the Champ cab,with the exception of the width problem that is.

Joseph R. Zeiger