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swtdrmz21
07-17-2009, 12:49 AM
I have a 62 champ t cab truck and i was wondering if the newer 302 had the same motor mounts as the stock 289. If it does will there be any clearance probleams once the 302 is in there. Also how hard will it be to make this switch? Thank you in advance.

swtdrmz21
07-17-2009, 12:49 AM
Oh i was also wondering if the studebaker 289 was even the same as the ford 289.

doug
07-17-2009, 12:51 AM
No

swtdrmz21
07-17-2009, 12:56 AM
no is kind of a generic response. no there not the same or no its not gonnna work?

Thomas63R2
07-17-2009, 02:07 AM
Well, I suppose it is an easy enough thing for someone to do: assume that all engines of the same displacement are similar. The engine size numbers, be they 289,302,427 refer to internal displacement, not the physical size of the engine.

Let's give the young man some room. So he learns that the Ford 302 is related and largeley interchangeable with the Ford 289, fair enough. Then he gets a Stude and finds out it too has a 289 and thinks "aha" - they are the same.

Now comes the educational part:
1) Park your Stude next to a Ford - both with 289's.
2) Lift the hoods on both.
3) look at one engine, then look at the other.
4) Notice all the differences.

The "aha" will become discovery: that just like not all people who are 6' tall look alike, neither do two engines from different manufacturers coincidentally with the same displacement.

Its a good lesson, and will hopefully start his mental catalog of what different manufacturer engines look like. Not all the same, different bore and stroke and bore spacing and so on. one is wide like a big block, the other is narrow and compact. Ignition distributor in the back on one, in the front on the other.

Thomas

Long time hot rodder
Packrat junk collector
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed

jallen
07-17-2009, 03:58 AM
The Ford and Studebaker have little in common, if you are thinking
about an engine swap, the Ford has some features worth noting; it's
lighter, smaller, cheaper to hop-up and it can be installed in a
Champ Pick-up, but so can lots of other engines, I had a friend who
used a 500CI Cadillac. Anything can be done, with enough money, time and effort. You might want to think about keeping the
Studebaker engine for the following reasons, originalty, worth more
if you ever decide to sell, and you can make it run. It might take
a little more thought and time, but you won't be reinventing the wheel. As one of our members likes to say, your car, your money.
Use the forum, most of the people here are friendly most of the time
and they do have knowledge and good advice. Have fun with it.

Thomas63R2
07-17-2009, 10:29 PM
Little in common would be a massive understatement.

Let's be clear: nothing, save for a few universal bolts, will interchange.

Nothing.

Thomas

Long time hot rodder
Packrat junk collector
'63 Avanti R2 4 speed

Warren Webb
07-18-2009, 12:00 AM
They have about as much in common as a 360 Chrysler has with a 360 Ford, or a 327 AMC with a 327 Chevy.

60 Lark convertible
61 Champ
62 Daytona convertible
63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
63 Avanti (2)
66 Daytona Sport Sedan

swtdrmz21
07-18-2009, 01:24 AM
Well I wanna start by saying thank you. A little story on the truck. I have had this truck sisnce i was a baby. My father bought the truck brand new in 62 from hobey sstudebaker in orville ca. The truck is sitting wrecked due to a lady running into the back of it at 60 when it was parked. Now The plan for the truck. I am trying to keep the over all look of the truck the same short of a lot of horse power and one low mean look. So what i mean is wheen you walk past the truck you see a studebaker till i start it and hit the street. I was also wondering if the cylinder walls are thick enough to bore it bigger and jsut keep the stock motor? Guys I know what i wanna do i just dont know how to do it with out ruing what my dad bought and i hold so dear. I love this truck so much that i have the key to it tattoed on my arm as a memorial to my dad.If you guys have any goood ideas please help. Thank you so much.

swtdrmz21
07-18-2009, 01:27 AM
I think the knowledge you guys have will be the bible i need to do this the right way. lol

doug
07-18-2009, 01:55 AM
I too have a '62 Champ. You asked if the engine could be bored out. Assuming it is a V-8, it can be bored out a lot. There are performance people on the forum that are knowledgeable about getting the most out of these engines.

You can search several years of Q & A about Studebaker in past forum posts. There is a ton of material to read.

Good luck with the truck and come back often.

Dan White
07-18-2009, 05:36 AM
You might want to go to this site for more performance information:

http://www.racingstudebakers.com/

Dan White
64 R1 GT
64 R2 GT

rusty nut garage
07-18-2009, 08:43 AM
Give us a little background about yourself as far as your experience and ability in regards to fabrication, rebuilding, motor swaps etc. Is this your first major attempt or??

Here's my take, if this is your first major project (I won't call it a restoration as that is such a misused term) I'd counsel you to leave it stock and any modification that you'd like to make like brake or AC upgrades go with a kit that has been tried and tested. Stay away from the drivetrain swap as this is just going to cause you headache and more $$. Redo the stude pwr plant with the standard performance upgrades and you'll be on the road in a much faster timeframe. You'll get just as many accolades and thumbs up regardless of which engine you have. Later on in a few years you can always continue to make custom changes by then you'll have more experience and a better idea of what you'd like the end product to be.

Russ (been there done that........the wrong way many yrs ago[:0] )


I think the knowledge you guys have will be the bible i need to do this the right way. lol
[/quote]

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp100/rustynutgarage/100_0133-1.jpg
Russ Shop Foreman "Rusty Nut Garage"
53 2R6 289 5SpdOD (driver)
57 SH (project)
60 Lark VIII 2dr sd (driver)

swtdrmz21
07-18-2009, 11:00 AM
Well i have worked on cars alot as a kid and kept up with general repais on my own cars i got older. I have had a classic before and sold it because i didnt really know much about it. I am head set on keeping this truck at all costs due to the family connection i have with it. I have not restored a vechile before but my brother in law has alot of knowledge when it comes to doing alot of what i want done but i wanna do most of it my self and with my son because i wanna pass it down to him. I am not looking to build a race truck just one strong street truck with a good amount of horse power. So my question now is caan or should i go 10 to 11 over on the bore of the block. I am also gonna do a big brake kit on it and an air bag systeam as well. But first things are to get the drivers door open so i can atleast get into it. lol

jallen
07-18-2009, 11:59 AM
Some one on the forum might be able to direct you to the Stude pick-up with the late model Ford step-side box. Sounds like you might
need something like that, updated look, but still looks like a
Studebaker. As far as the engine goes the best way to improve on
studebaker performance is Super Charger plus head work should get
you in the 300 HP range.

53k
07-18-2009, 01:44 PM
quote:Originally posted by swtdrmz21

Well i have worked on cars alot as a kid and kept up with general repais on my own cars i got older. I have had a classic before and sold it because i didnt really know much about it. I am head set on keeping this truck at all costs due to the family connection i have with it. I have not restored a vechile before but my brother in law has alot of knowledge when it comes to doing alot of what i want done but i wanna do most of it my self and with my son because i wanna pass it down to him. I am not looking to build a race truck just one strong street truck with a good amount of horse power. So my question now is caan or should i go 10 to 11 over on the bore of the block. I am also gonna do a big brake kit on it and an air bag systeam as well. But first things are to get the drivers door open so i can atleast get into it. lol

I think you will be surprised how strong a stock 289 is. You might find it to be entirely adequate without spending a bunch on mods. Regarding boring, most Stude blocks can be bored .060 with no problem. Some have been bored way past that.




Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia. '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Daytona convertible, '53 Commander Starliner, Museum R-4 engine, '62 Gravely Model L, '72 Gravely Model 430

http://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/Copy%20of%20broken%20circle.jpghttp://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/Copy%20of%201-1-08%20002.jpghttp://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/Copy%20of%201-1-08%20004.jpghttp://www.frontiernet.net/~thejohnsons/Forum%20signature%20pix/Copy%20of%201-1-08%20006.jpg

buddymander
07-18-2009, 02:26 PM
First, make sure that it really is a 289 and not a 259. Then figure out what the compression ratio really is. It could be seven for all anybody knows. Change it over to electronic ignition with a performance curve kit. Don't go over 500 CFM on the carb. Find out what your rearend ratio is. Proper gearing; both in the transmission and the rearend, is very important to get the best of both worlds out of your truck.

showbizkid
07-18-2009, 04:09 PM
To amplify what Buddy posted, check the right front top area of the block for a machined pad and clean it off - you'll find a series of numbers stamped there (NOT cast). This is the engine serial number. If it starts with "V", it's a 259; if it starts with a "P" it's a 289.

For the electronic ignition, you can get a Pertronix kit that will slip right in to your existing distributor; many Stude vendors carry them.

For a good carb choice (if your existing 4bbl can't be rebuilt), start with this thread: http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29129 . If you do have a rebuildable WCFB or AFB on the truck, by all means keep it!

The rear end should have some tags under the bolts on the cover that tell you the model number and gear ratio. Take a look and see what you've got!

And welcome to the club :)


[img=left]http://members.cox.net/clarknovak/lark.gif[/img=left]

Clark in San Diego
'63 F2/Lark Standard
http://studeblogger.blogspot.com
www.studebakersandiego.com

JeffDeWitt
07-18-2009, 05:40 PM
David, I'd like to chime in about your engine, the Stude V8 is a tough engine that can be built to develop amazing amounts of power, but even stock they aren't exactly slouches.

If the engine needs any attention at all probably a freshening with new bearings, rings and a valve job (only machine work would be on the heads) would keep you going for many years. Put a 4 bbl carb and electronic ignition and it will have PLENTY of power.

It would also free you up to put your time and money into other parts of the truck that probably need it a lot worse.

FYI, the Stude 289 was around long before the Ford <G>

Keep us posted!



Jeff DeWitt
http://carolinastudes.net
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q33/Jeff_DeWitt/IM001571-1.jpg

swtdrmz21
07-18-2009, 08:27 PM
Thank you guys so much. So from what i am getting is i need to leave it stock and just do some clean up and some bearings. But the intake manifold has the 1 barrel carb on it with the 4 barrrel stamp on the manifold. I will check and see if it really is a 289 or a 259 thank you for that info there. I am sure im gonna need a new rear end because I had to park the truck when the cotter pin broke and the axel starting coming out of the housing. That was when the lady ran into the back of the truck at 60 and moved it 24 feet up a hill and wrinkled the cab over the drivers door. The rear leaf spring pack is spread farther then a bunt cake a fat kids party.

JeffDeWitt
07-18-2009, 08:38 PM
That carburetor is probably a 2 bbl Stromberg, I don't think Studebaker ever put a 1 bbl carb on a later V8.

You can also find out what your engine is here.

http://www.studebakerdriversclub.com/V8EngineID.asp

Now the internal parts of these engines are pretty interchangeable and it's possible someone swapped parts over the years, but that table can tell you what your engine started as and when it was made.

Jeff DeWitt
http://carolinastudes.net
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q33/Jeff_DeWitt/IM001571-1.jpg

swtdrmz21
07-18-2009, 10:02 PM
Is there a way i can find a 4 barrle manifold for a good price? OH OH and i need a bed for the truck. Its a box bed not a step side like your.

mjeansonne
07-18-2009, 11:01 PM
You should be able to find someone on the forum that can machine the two barrell manifold into a four barrell manifold. I ha this done to my manifold and it comes out great!! Then get yourself an Edelbrock Performer 500 CFM with electric choke carburetor and you should be set.

Good Luck!!:)



Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

Kenmike2
07-19-2009, 04:22 PM
Hello from sunny AZ
I convert the 2 BBL to a 4 BBL configuration. I also manufacture and sell a insulator/spacer to mount the Edelbrock onto this manifold without cutting off the throttle valve lever on your new carb.
Check out my products at www.studebakersonly.com
Regards
Ken Michael

Kenmike2
07-19-2009, 04:30 PM
I'm also in process of building my shop truck. It's a 62 Champ like yours. I've installed Pontiac engines Chevy engines and all type of trannys in various Studes over the years. This one is 289 Stude bored to 294, Avanti cammed, 9.3:1 compreession ratio workhorse engine. I tow a car hauler and need TORQUE on the northern AZ mountains.

My truck has a 79 Chevy Nova front clip to gain IFS, disk brakes, PS etc in one fell swoop. This is major surgery and a recipe for failure if you don't know what you're doing.

If you're just beginning, stick with a time proven drivetrain until you have more experience. Then do your thing.

swtdrmz21
07-20-2009, 04:05 PM
On the intake work does that come with the nnew gaskets? If it dosent where can i get those?

JeffDeWitt
07-20-2009, 09:08 PM
quote:Originally posted by swtdrmz21

On the intake work does that come with the nnew gaskets? If it dosent where can i get those?


Gaskets are easy to get, your local FLAPS* can get them or you can get them from any of a bunch of Studebaker parts vendors. I'd start with www.studebakerparts.com

(Friendly Local Auto Parts Store... although some people use another word that starts with F)

Jeff DeWitt
http://carolinastudes.net
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q33/Jeff_DeWitt/IM001571-1.jpg

swtdrmz21
07-21-2009, 06:24 PM
I feel like you guys are a bunch of help. I wanna say thank you for all the help you have given me. Trust me i will be on here alot more from now on to get all the help i can get. I will also help on here as much as possiable.

Kenmike2
07-21-2009, 10:35 PM
I can supply both intake and carb gaskets with a remanufactured manifold. Just ask when you contact.
Regards
Ken Michael

swtdrmz21
07-25-2009, 10:13 AM
I will contact you soon for the manifold and all the gaskets. Thank you so much for all the help here guys. The other question i had was does any one know where i can get a bed for the truck. Classic enterprises has a new bed but i would have to rebuild it. I dont have a welder or the money to have it built.

studebakerkid
07-27-2009, 12:52 AM
Where you at? I have a bed that has been for sale for a long time. It is a long bed still attached to the frame. Just using it to store firewoodright now.

I used to work at GM dealership. I drove my 63 Tcab to that dealership almost every day. Almost every other day on the way home I would encounter some dumba&& wanting a race. I never lost. A Studebaker engine will turn higher RPMs because it does not have a timeing chain and because the Lifters are mechanical the lifters do not float. The parts are available now to do the same thing to a Ford or Bowtie small block but then they were not so at around 100 mph I would simply shift into overdrive and be gone.


I am in Washington State by the way.

If you car is ugly then it better be fast.....

65 2dr sedan
64 2dr sedan (Pinkie)
61 V8 Tcab
61 Tcab 20R powered
55 Commander Wagon
54 Champion Wagon
46 Gibson Model A
50 JD MC

swtdrmz21
09-02-2009, 07:15 PM
I live in reno nv. I am looking for a stock bed in good to great condition.

doug
09-02-2009, 07:25 PM
I did not read all the posts, but if you have not joined the Studebaker Drivers Club, go to the S.D.C. home page, look under S.D.C. Chapters and there are some contacts in the Northern Nevada area. They might be able to help and are more local than most of the forum folks.

R2Andrea
09-02-2009, 09:22 PM
The P and V engine prefixes do not apply to the truck engines. The Studebaker engine for your truck will be prefixed with 3E for the 259, 5E for the HD 259, 7E for the 289 and 6E for the HD 289.

R2Andy

DieselJim
09-02-2009, 10:08 PM
In a earlier post you ask about being able to bore the engine. I bored mine .148 thousands over makeing it a 320 ci. Jim

N8N
09-03-2009, 09:35 AM
quote:Originally posted by studebakerkid


Almost every other day on the way home I would encounter some dumba&& wanting a race. I never lost. A Studebaker engine will turn higher RPMs because it does not have a timeing chain and because the Lifters are mechanical the lifters do not float.


I'm ASSuming you had at least R-series valvesprings in it? Of all the positive attributes that the Stude engine has (and there are many) "free-revving" would not be near the top of my list. Of course, that can be fixed :)

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

JRoberts
09-03-2009, 05:06 PM
I have a '61 Champ with an R1 Studebaker V8 in it. The R1 engines were the base engnes for the Studebaker Avanti. I use it with a t86 with overdrive. Although a three speed (with floor shift conversion) I like the transmission because to of the overdrive unit. A basic 289 will not have as much power as theR1, but it should have enough to keep you happy. The 4 bbl is a good idea. Have fun with your truck.



Joe Roberts
'61 R1 Champ
'65 Cruiser
Editor of "The Down Easterner"
Eastern North Carolina Chapter

62champ
09-03-2009, 07:54 PM
quote:Originally posted by swtdrmz21

I live in reno nv. I am looking for a stock bed in good to great condition.


Before you start collecting sheet metal - might want to have the frame checked to see how out-of-whack it is. Especially if it distorted the cab in the accident.

You are in a good part of the country for finding a bed that is in reasonably good shape.

Good luck.

<div align="left">1960 Lark 60S-W4</div id="left"> <div align="right">1962 7E7-122</div id="right">
[img=left]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/8b0ac4c6.jpg[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l163/62champ/car/DSC02237.jpg[/img=right]

Pat Dilling
09-03-2009, 09:50 PM
quote:Originally posted by swtdrmz21

I live in reno nv. I am looking for a stock bed in good to great condition.


I am in Marysville, I have a friend in Yuba City that will be parting out a couple of Champ Pickups soon. Send me an email and I will help you get in touch with him.

Pat

Pat Dilling
Olivehurst, CA
Custom '53 Starlight aka Stu Cool
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n194/stucool53/StuCoolsmallerSigpic.jpg
LS1 Engine Swap Journal: http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/journal.php?action=view&journalid=33611

clonelark
09-05-2009, 02:29 AM
Diesel Jim, what pistons did you use after boring it out .148

http://i30.tinypic.com/10rqxdw.jpg